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Thread: Hornets Draft History since 2005

  1. #1

    Hornets Draft History since 2005

    First I'll start by saying that I am aware we have a new owner, and a new GM. I am VERY hopeful that we have an entirely new scouting department as well. Since 2005 (CP3) the Hornets have got to be one of the worst drafting teams in the league. Let's hope that this years score is a great sign of things to come.

    2006:
    Rd1 Hilton Armstrong
    Rd1 Cedric Simmons
    Rd2 Marcus Viniciuos

    Are any of these guys still in the league? Honestly, this might be one of the worst drafts of all time? Hilton gave us maybe 30 good minutes ----- in his entire career. I know we traded Simmons for Wesley, but I am just looking at the player selection and scouting ability.

    2007:
    Rd1 Julian Wright
    Rd2 Adam Haluska

    Wright was a poor choice. Adam (who the hell are ya?) . Just messing with his name, 2nd rounders are not expected to produce. If you get a good one, fantastic, if you don't oh well

    2008:
    Rd1 Darrell Arthur

    Traded for cash?? We took our entire draft and traded it for cash?

    2009:
    Rd1 Darren Collison

    Collison is a good one. This is the first decent pick we made since CP3 IMO. He will continue to get better and should have a nice long career. Honestly, we could really use him on the team now. His speed with our young horses?

    2010:
    Rd1 Cole Aldrich

    Instantly traded, for Q. Pon and some cash maybe? But as far as player selection. He has done nothing. He will probably be out of the league in another year. Q. Pon never did anything for us as well.

    2011:
    Rd2 Josh Harrellson

    ??

    So, that is 5 years of drafts after CP3, and only 1 good pick - Collison. That is a pretty bad track record. Now, Demps did not have a lot to work with in 2011 so I'll give him a pass. It appears we had a FANTASTIC draft in 2012. Honestly, I believe that Miller is going to end up being a really good player for us. Love his BBall IQ and he is nailing open jumpers. You don't need to be an elite athlete to be successful, as long as the smarts and intangibles are there.

    Has the scouting department been revamped? Who has final say in the draft process? How are we feeling about our future drafting abilities? The NBA isn't like the NFL where you MUST build through the draft, but it is still a very important part of a franchises continued success.

  2. #2
    The Franchise bustahyndes's Avatar
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    Marcus Thornton?



  3. #3
    Enjoys Waffles P Raff's Avatar
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    I disagree about 2012. I think it's obvious that both Davis and Rivers are going to be major busts. And Miller is doomed from the start. That's just me, though.
    "Every fight is a food fight when you're a cannibal."- Demetri Martin

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  4. #4
    All World Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Left out Thornton.

    Left out Craig Brackins who was included in the trade for Jason Smith.

    Emeka Okafor - Joe Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Manu Ginobili - Jason Williams

    Al Jefferson - James Posey - Aaron McKie - Shaun Livingston

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bongzilla View Post
    2010:
    Rd1 Cole Aldrich

    Instantly traded, for Q. Pon and some cash maybe? But as far as player selection. He has done nothing. He will probably be out of the league in another year. Q. Pon never did anything for us as well.

    2011:
    Rd2 Josh Harrellson

    ??
    Since at this point only Demps' moves are relevant for predicting future draft success, I won't worry about anything pre-Demps.

    Aldrich was traded to get rid of Morris Peterson. We got Pondexter, who we traded for Vasquez. We acquired our backup PG AND got rid of Morris Peterson's contract with that pick. That is far more value than Cole Aldrich has provided to this point (and look at my avatar--I love Cole Aldrich).

    Josh Harrellson was traded for cash that we used to buy out Gustavo Ayon and bring him to the states. Ayon gave us a great year, and then allowed us to acquire Ryan Anderson, one of the most underrated big men in the league and a critical piece of our core.

    Think of the draft like playing chess--you have to look several moves ahead in order to understand Dell. These draft decisions were made for financial reasons, and those good financial choices directly allowed us to obtain a great (backup) PG and a sixth man of the year favorite. Not a bad yield for a late lottery and second round pick.

    Edit: Totally forgot about getting Brackins, and consequently Jason Smith, as part of the Aldrich trade.

    Listen, I don't think Dell is infallible. I understand why people point to the almost Lakers trade and Gordon's free agency as negatives. However, Dell has been GREAT in using his draft picks. I just don't see how you can criticize his draft-related moves--ALL of them have been great moves in the end.
    Last edited by greewe; 11-02-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  6. #6
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Is this "analysis" supposed to only rate what the did for the hornets and not what they netted?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    Is this "analysis" supposed to only rate what the did for the hornets and not what they netted?
    Yes, my concern is only about our scouting department and final decision making process. Not necessarily about the benefit they netted for the Hornets. I.E. if we draft player x (who turns out to be a bust) and traded for player y (who turns out to be a stud) I would still be concerned about our ability to scout and select talent.

    I left out Thornton because we did not draft him.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by greewe View Post
    Since at this point only Demps' moves are relevant for predicting future draft success, I won't worry about anything pre-Demps.

    Aldrich was traded to get rid of Morris Peterson. We got Pondexter, who we traded for Vasquez. We acquired our backup PG AND got rid of Morris Peterson's contract with that pick. That is far more value than Cole Aldrich has provided to this point (and look at my avatar--I love Cole Aldrich).

    Josh Harrellson was traded for cash that we used to buy out Gustavo Ayon and bring him to the states. Ayon gave us a great year, and then allowed us to acquire Ryan Anderson, one of the most underrated big men in the league and a critical piece of our core.

    Think of the draft like playing chess--you have to look several moves ahead in order to understand Dell. These draft decisions were made for financial reasons, and those good financial choices directly allowed us to obtain a great (backup) PG and a sixth man of the year favorite. Not a bad yield for a late lottery and second round pick.

    Edit: Totally forgot about getting Brackins, and consequently Jason Smith, as part of the Aldrich trade.

    Listen, I don't think Dell is infallible. I understand why people point to the almost Lakers trade and Gordon's free agency as negatives. However, Dell has been GREAT in using his draft picks. I just don't see how you can criticize his draft-related moves--ALL of them have been great moves in the end.
    As an avid chess player I get what you are saying. But I think that is a lot of speculation on your point. I seriously doubt that on draft night Demps had already determined that we would trade harrelson for cash, which would yield Ayon, which we would then use in a S&T for the most improved player of the year.

    Again, not questioning Demps ability to shift pieces, moreover trying to focus on the actual player selection. Aldrich was a high first rounder that we traded to dump a contract for a lower first rounder that we then traded for another low 1st rounder? We could have just traded back in the draft to dump Peterson's expiring and ended up with Bledsoe 8 picks later, and would probably be in a better situation.

  9. #9
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bongzilla View Post
    Yes, my concern is only about our scouting department and final decision making process. Not necessarily about the benefit they netted for the Hornets. I.E. if we draft player x (who turns out to be a bust) and traded for player y (who turns out to be a stud) I would still be concerned about our ability to scout and select talent.

    I left out Thornton because we did not draft him.
    You do realize that if GMs make a deal on draft day and we have to select the player in the NBA, right? It's not like the NFL where you can trade spots and the team that you trade with picks. This analysis seems to be faulty at best due to a couple of things you pointed out (Let's not rate "The Hornets" on previous management teams let's rate them on this mangement team) as well as this. Dells job up to this point has been:
    1. Try to keep chris Paul and build a team around him. Failure
    I don't blame this on Dell. The CP3 situation was brewing well before he got here.

    2. Get a good deal for Paul. Wash
    I'll give him a wash bc he was going to take a deal that was worse than this one until Stern ultimately veto'd it and we ended up getting some expiring contracts, a hurt player, a player with an extremely low floor and an extremely high ceiling.

    3. Begin Rebuilding After the Paul Trade. Pass- So Far
    Dell has rid himself of terrible contracts (Outside of Gordon at this point). Gotten what seems to be a good draft and has space to go after guys in FA. We also signed Ryan Anderson, have some guys that would make EXCELLENT bench players with a strong starting cast (Vasquez, Miller, Smith, Anderson).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bongzilla View Post
    As an avid chess player I get what you are saying. But I think that is a lot of speculation on your point. I seriously doubt that on draft night Demps had already determined that we would trade harrelson for cash, which would yield Ayon, which we would then use in a S&T for the most improved player of the year.

    Again, not questioning Demps ability to shift pieces, moreover trying to focus on the actual player selection. Aldrich was a high first rounder that we traded to dump a contract for a lower first rounder that we then traded for another low 1st rounder? We could have just traded back in the draft to dump Peterson's expiring and ended up with Bledsoe 8 picks later, and would probably be in a better situation.
    I'm not saying that Demps had envisioned these exact events unfolding. I'm saying that in the draft, he uses these picks to increase financial flexibility (Morris Peterson and cash when we had little spending money) and assets (Pondexter, Brackins). Having greater financial flexibility and assets leads to good results down the road, even if we don't know exactly what those good results will look like at the time.

    You really can't say "Dell didn't know on draft night that we would eventually get Vasquez, so I'm going to call it a bad pick." He knew he would get SOMETHING good out of it, and in the end, that was true.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bongzilla View Post
    Yes, my concern is only about our scouting department and final decision making process. Not necessarily about the benefit they netted for the Hornets. I.E. if we draft player x (who turns out to be a bust) and traded for player y (who turns out to be a stud) I would still be concerned about our ability to scout and select talent.

    I left out Thornton because we did not draft him.
    Just to reiterate what BallSoHard is saying--when we immediately trade a player like Aldrich and Harrellson, it means our front office didn't select that player--the other team's did.

  12. #12
    There is data (too lazy to find it right now) on ESPN that has measured teams draft picks relative to expected wins a player at that position would produce and the Hornets rank 8th according to that metric since 2002.

    Fans of teams remember with superhuman accuracy how well or poorly their teams do, but they sometimes fail to broaden their view and realize every team has a ton of busts, so while you feel your team does a poor job of drafting, they might not relative to the entire league.

    That's fine- point out all the Hornets busts, but then look around the league and find the teams without worst picks. Even better, go find out how many teams have drafted as well outside of the lottery as the Hornets (Collison, Thornton, Bass, West, Miller) and you will see that while you are frustrated with the misses, there are fan bases who would die to have the Hornets track record
    @mcnamara247

  13. #13
    Hall of Famer takezor's Avatar
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    I was so upset that we traded Collison and mostly Marcus Thornton. It was pretty obvious that cp3 would leave sooner or later. They could have formed part of our future now.
    The Hornets have been drafting bums every season, hope this one IS finally the "Year", and we start having a bright future.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by greewe View Post
    Just to reiterate what BallSoHard is saying--when we immediately trade a player like Aldrich and Harrellson, it means our front office didn't select that player--the other team's did.
    Yes I am aware that you don't trade picks in the NBA, but you trade draft rights. I also understand that the deals are finalized before Stern makes his way to the podium to announce it. Looking at it from an opportunity cost basis though.

    I am still searching for answers to my post however, I am not challenging Demps' ability to draft players or manage players/contracts. I am trying to see if the hornets have revamped their scouting department. I am hoping that whomever has been "director of scouting" or whatever it would be called has been upgraded.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    There is data (too lazy to find it right now) on ESPN that has measured teams draft picks relative to expected wins a player at that position would produce and the Hornets rank 8th according to that metric since 2002.

    Fans of teams remember with superhuman accuracy how well or poorly their teams do, but they sometimes fail to broaden their view and realize every team has a ton of busts, so while you feel your team does a poor job of drafting, they might not relative to the entire league.

    That's fine- point out all the Hornets busts, but then look around the league and find the teams without worst picks. Even better, go find out how many teams have drafted as well outside of the lottery as the Hornets (Collison, Thornton, Bass, West, Miller) and you will see that while you are frustrated with the misses, there are fan bases who would die to have the Hornets track record
    I think landing a first ballot HOF with a 4th overall pick might alter the curve a bit in our favor though, don't you think? We did not draft Thornton or Bass either.

    Again, only wanted to focus on our ability to scout / draft talent. I am not criticizing Demps or his abilities as a GM to manage the cap and get great value in trades.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bongzilla View Post
    I think landing a first ballot HOF with a 4th overall pick might alter the curve a bit in our favor though, don't you think? We did not draft Thornton or Bass either.

    Again, only wanted to focus on our ability to scout / draft talent. I am not criticizing Demps or his abilities as a GM to manage the cap and get great value in trades.
    It's dishonest to say we didn't make the decision to draft Bass or Thorton when we traded for those guys on the night of the draft, with the teams who drafted them having the trade to N.O. in place when they were drafted. They identified and acquired the talent.

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