30th July - New Orleans Pelicans VS Utah Jazz - 0-0 (28-36) Bubble Game 1

[JJackisangry]

I’m most upset at the Zion restriction. That’s a bit absurd. At least should have gotten 20 something minutes

[Pelicanidae]

I’m most upset at the Zion restriction. That’s a bit absurd. At least should have gotten 20 something minutes

This is just how I'm thinking about it and it seems nuts to me.

When Zion returned against the Spurs, he played 18 minutes. He was coming off an injury and a multi-month layoff. 18 minutes in those conditions.

Now all of a sudden he's had another 4 months recovery, we can see he's in great shape. He takes a week off outside the bubble; there's no way he could have lost all of that conditioning in a single week. So how come now, when the games truly truly matter, every one of them, he's capped at 15?

How could he be less capable of playing minutes tonight, with no injury and in good conditioning, than he was on his debut after a 4 month injury layoff?

What sense does that make?

[Taker597]

This is just how I'm thinking about it and it seems nuts to me.

When Zion returned against the Spurs, he played 18 minutes. He was coming off an injury and a multi-month layoff. 18 minutes in those conditions.

Now all of a sudden he's had another 4 months recovery, we can see he's in great shape. He takes a week off outside the bubble; there's no way he could have lost all of that conditioning in a single week. So how come now, when the games truly truly matter, every one of them, he's capped at 15?

How could he be less capable of playing minutes tonight, with no injury and in good conditioning, than he was on his debut after a 4 month injury layoff?

What sense does that make?

Man miss with that conditioning bs, it’s definitely more to it. Back already against the wall and need Ws to compete with 6 other teams for 1 spot. The game tied down to the final 6 seconds. You can't give him another minute?

We aren't trying to win. Griffin just playing the long game. Which is funny... NBA went through all this work to make up a bs 9th seed for Zion lol

[akhan786]

As someone who has watched him since he was 16 (Duke fan), trust me on this that expecting Ingram to be the primary closer on a championship level squad will be as difficult as it was to get AD to do it. Both phenomenal players. Real top 1% blue chip talent.

But in the big leagues there are levels to this. Neither can be the best player on a championship squad. Can be All-time #2’s though.

That’s why we have to hope that Zion one day diversifies his game to actually be a feasible option to have the ball in his hands down the stretch. That one ability is the #1 premium in the sport of basketball. Execution down the stretch is the only thing that ends up mattering.

And we’re pretty terrible at it

[tdcreator]

To me another example of not finishing games. Favors doesn’t help on offense (no pick and roll potential) and not much better on defense. I think I’d rather have Hayes learn on the job. It’s at least exciting on both ends. Besides that chalk it up to a bad shooting night.

[luckyman]

As someone who has watched him since he was 16 (Duke fan), trust me on this that expecting Ingram to be the primary closer on a championship level squad will be as difficult as it was to get AD to do it. Both phenomenal players. Real top 1% blue chip talent.

But in the big leagues there are levels to this. Neither can be the best player on a championship squad. Can be All-time #2’s though.

That’s why we have to hope that Zion one day diversifies his game to actually be a feasible option to have the ball in his hands down the stretch. That one ability is the #1 premium in the sport of basketball. Execution down the stretch is the only thing that ends up mattering.

And we’re pretty terrible at it

Ingram hit big shots against Utah earlier this year. It's fruitless to even harp on that.

The game never should have come to that. You had one team keep attacking keep penetrating.

You have the other team keep jacking jumpers and go deep into the bench at the wrong times.

[Eman5805]

You’re still not getting it. Gentry is clearly not in control of minutes.

Would you blame Zion if he had a slow start? I wouldn't, but his critics would.

Luckily, right now... Everyone is putting Gentry on blast, because Zion has proved to be great in short spurts. I haven't seen rookie do what Zion is able to do in bathroom break 15 minute nights. Lebron avg 39.5 minutes as a rookie and only got 20 ppg.

That narrative completely changes if Zion isn't doing HOF level work while missing 30+ games, and benching him in the 4th. It's more of detriment to Zion's development at this point. No reason they couldn't get him in the final minute.

Okay. I just weren't sure if you're agreeing with me or not.

[Pelicanidae]

That’s why we have to hope that Zion one day diversifies his game to actually be a feasible option to have the ball in his hands down the stretch.

You have to have him in the game down the stretch first, which seems to be a concept that mortally offends our team and organisation.

[As I See It]

Ingram hit big shots against Utah earlier this year. It's fruitless to even harp on that.

The game never should have come to that. You had one team keep attacking keep penetrating.

You have the other team keep jacking jumpers and go deep into the bench at the wrong times.

Yep. Shot chart doesn't lie.

[Pelicanidae]

Yep. Shot chart doesn't lie.

Speaking of shot charts.

Lonzo shot Chart- Pelicans V Jazz pic.twitter.com/UPAV8kpdEU

— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) July 31, 2020

Here's Lonzo's. I'm not actually too mad about where most of these shots came from (I could do without him trying to hit multiple FT line jumpers), but what I am concerned about is the style. He went 2/6 inside of 5 feet, which is just not good enough, and some of these misses were really ugly. I'm mostly thinking of the one that hit the bottom of the backboard here.

He is 6'6, broad shouldered, and he can jump. There is no reason he should not be throwing dunks down on people, or at least finishing through some contact. Instead, he stops short (notice that his misses generally come from a little farther out) and tries to do a 5 or 6 foot push shot, or a floater, or an up and under move. The problem with these moves is that they require touch at the rim to make, and Lonzo has none. It's part of why he's so bad as a FT shooter well, coincidentally.

I don't know what he needs to sort this issue out but he's had it his entire NBA career so far. Sports psychologist, I don't know? It seems to be at least partly psychological because he does drive as if intending to attack the hoop and then just seems to freeze up at the last moment.

[PELICANSFAN]

Redick was there, and had space. That's an easy read. Ingram took a bad shot that he's not good at making. Maybe Gentry wanted him to take the last shot, maybe not, I don't know, but whatever the reason was, Ingram took that shot and it was the wrong choice. I'm adamant on that.

You typically are adamant when it comes to BI. Would it have been the right choice if he made it? I would guess the play was called for JJ and BI was told to take it if he had a good look. He had a good look and it rattled in and out. It was not a terrible shot at all. I think everyone would prefer JJ taking a 3, but I would not make it out that BI threw up a desperation off balance shot.

[PELICANSFAN]

To me another example of not finishing games. Favors doesn’t help on offense (no pick and roll potential) and not much better on defense. I think I’d rather have Hayes learn on the job. It’s at least exciting on both ends. Besides that chalk it up to a bad shooting night.

Not sure what is up with Favors, but he looks like he is 60 years old out there. He seems to need more conditioning work than Zion. He was beyond terrible tonight. I think it was 3 straight lobs to Gobert and he came out every time on the pick and roll, leaving Gobert with the open dunk. He appears out of shape.

[Eman5805]

Last time we played the Jazz and BI took an ISO pull up, he buried it. And it should've won the game but some ol' BS happened.

[Sleeper]

We need to let Favors test FA this offseason. It looks like Willie Cauley-Stein has a player option for next year and will likely opt out since it is on the small contract he took to play for Warriors. I say we go after him as he can keep pace on the floor and hang with the lengthier bigs.


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[Taker597]

Well, it could be worse. We could be in the running to drafting Wiseman lol...

[Pelicanidae]

You typically are adamant when it comes to BI. Would it have been the right choice if he made it? I would guess the play was called for JJ and BI was told to take it if he had a good look. He had a good look and it rattled in and out. It was not a terrible shot at all. I think everyone would prefer JJ taking a 3, but I would not make it out that BI threw up a desperation off balance shot.

The reason the shot was bad wasn't that it was ''desperation off balance'', or else I would have said that.

If it had been a catch and shoot set shot, then sure, Ingram should take that all day; that's a good shot. Why? Well, Ingram's a 41% catch and shoot 3 point guy this year.

The reason it's bad is that it was an off the dribble pull up from 3. And Ingram is abysmal at pull up 3s. If you use the assumption that a bad shot is a shot that a given player cannot make (for example, a Dwight Howard 3) then by that logic, a pull up 3 is a bad shot for Ingram: he doesn't make them.

It would have been a good look if Ingram was a remotely solid pull up shooter.

[Pelicanidae]

Well, it could be worse. We could be in the running to drafting Wiseman lol...

What's our pick going to be, 15 ish?

Then we are in the running to draft Wiseman, since he shouldn't sniff top 10.

[Taker597]

What's our pick going to be, 15 ish?

Then we are in the running to draft Wiseman, since he shouldn't sniff top 10.

Son of a.... Watch us trade up for him too.

[ramsters60]

THAT

was not a foul.

what play were you referring to when you said that? I had that exact reaction to a foul that was actually called on the Jazz....when Ball stripped Gaubert and then whipped a pass to someone all alone under the basket... I might have to look again, but I just never saw the foul called on Gaubert at the time...

[Taker597]

So... What we need to do to get the 9th seed?

Win the rest and Blazer drop two?

[PaKwAn]

Looks like it was management that ordered the minutes restriction for zion and coaching staff had to follow it...

Oops didn't notice a thread was made regarding this

[Pelicanidae]

So... What we need to do to get the 9th seed?

Win the rest and Blazer drop two?

Basically. It sounds obvious but whatever happens we have to win more games than the Blazers and Kings, and stay within 4 of Memphis. That's the rule.

So we've lost 1 now, therefore we need Portland to lose at least 2.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Basically. It sounds obvious but whatever happens we have to win more games than the Blazers and Kings, and stay within 4 of Memphis. That's the rule.

So we've lost 1 now, therefore we need Portland to lose at least 2.

So if Pels go 6-2 and Port go 5-3 we will playoff against Mem as long as they don't do better than 6-2?

[luckyman]

So if Pels go 6-2 and Port go 5-3 we will playoff against Mem as long as they don't do better than 6-2?

And Sacramento cant do better than 6-2.

Good news is all 3 of them have tougher schedules, assuming their tougher opponents don't rest key players.

Bad news is the Pels are completely unpredictable. Young team with a brain fart habit coach.

[PELICANSFAN]

The reason the shot was bad wasn't that it was ''desperation off balance'', or else I would have said that.

If it had been a catch and shoot set shot, then sure, Ingram should take that all day; that's a good shot. Why? Well, Ingram's a 41% catch and shoot 3 point guy this year.

The reason it's bad is that it was an off the dribble pull up from 3. And Ingram is abysmal at pull up 3s. If you use the assumption that a bad shot is a shot that a given player cannot make (for example, a Dwight Howard 3) then by that logic, a pull up 3 is a bad shot for Ingram: he doesn't make them.

It would have been a good look if Ingram was a remotely solid pull up shooter.

I don't think the players make a decision on a game winning shot based on whether it is a catch and shoot or a dibble pull up. Having probably your best player take a shot with a good look is not a wrong choice. It may not have been the best choice (as JJ is clearly a better 3 point shooter), but having your leading scorer who is a 38-39% 3 point shooter is not necessarily a wrong choice. I would also have preferred Zion on the court as a secondary option down low.