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Career PER:Originally Posted by UNO Gracias
Posey: 12.4 (was 32 when we signed him)
Peterson: 13.3
Iguodala: 16.9
He's not at all comparable to the other two. Iggy was on Team USA for a reason, and plenty of other successful early to mid 30's wings have been brought up. We're not the Los Angeles or New York Pelicans. That perfect free agent fit is not coming along.
Tayshaun Prince: Scoring average at 29 = 12.5 ppg; Scoring average at 33 = 8.8 ppg
Hedo Turkoglu: Scoring average at 29 = 16.9 ppg ; Scoring average at 33 = 10.9 ppg
Ron Artest: Scoring average at 29 = 17.1 ppg ; Scoring average at 33 = 7.7ppg
Corey Maggette: Scoring average at 29 = 18.6 ppg ; Scoring average at 33 = 15.0 ppg
Rashard Lewis: Scoring average at 29 = 17.7 ppg ; Scoring average at 33 = 7.8 ppg
Vince Carter: Scoring average at 29 = 25.2 ppg ; Scoring average at 33 = 15.1 ppg
Peja Stojakovic : Scoring average at 29 = 18.2 pppg ; Scoring average at 33 = 12.6 ppg
To me it looks a lot like a pattern. So let me ask you something : do you think Iggy is closer to Duncan/Nash/Kobe/Gino or those players ?
To me it sounds like a familly at the end of the month saying "ow, there's 50$ left on our account, let's use it !", it can't arm yourself to spare money. And don't forget one thing, cap space is always valuable, not only for free agency. With the supertax starting to hit, some teams will panick, they'll look for team with cap space and at this moment team could make some steals.
Last edited by Blattman; 06-17-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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Why are there any 33 year olds in the league anyway? Might be better to just euthanize them. Maybe put a red ruby indicator on the palms of their hands that blinks when their 33rd birthday happens.
Just an idea.
So let's be cheap, let's be frugal...because we might benefit from panicking teams four years from now...because of something called a supertax. Because a family with a finite income will spend $50 dollars carelessly and we don't want to do what they do.To me it sounds like a familly at the end of the month saying "ow, there's 50$ left on our account, let's use it !", it can't arm yourself to spare money. And don't forget one thing, cap space is always valuable, not only for free agency. With the supertax starting to hit, some teams will panick, they'll look for team with cap space and at this moment team could make some steals.
But since you're being hypothetical, why aren't you providing more specific examples of what sort of steals are we talking about? Can you point to a past precedence that shows that this short of thing has happened before? I mean what are you basing that off of? If I'm going in unbiased one side has a simple plan "Sign Iggy to a reasonable price." You're going "No, sit on the money because of reasons."
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There is so much more to Iggy's game than his PPG, but keep ignoring that and trying to make your point. He will make everyone on the team better, and instantly upgrade our defense ten fold.
AI is good player but he seems to be declining as a player (as most players do.). Im ok with signing him to a 3yr/40m deal. Anything longer than that is a problem.
3 yrs is a pipe dream, unless they radically overpay
he can get 5 years from denver
the other 29 teams can offer him 4 years (cap permitting)
why would he sign for 3?? remember he just opted out of 16million dollars...
all the arguments on whether he's a good player or not are just noise
the pelicans will have to sacrifice cap flexibility in the 4th year is they want this guy
to me, that is unacceptable
this team should be about AD and nothing but getting good players on good deals around him
Why do you need to twist my word ? Did I say that 33 years old player are useless ? You could at least searched for counter-example (hint: there is a russian guy playing in Minny that could be great for this point), but you're so close-minded that you prefer to extrapolate. I'm waiting the moment where people will start to call me a "hater" juste because I'm not in the mainstream.Why are there any 33 year olds in the league anyway? Might be better to just euthanize them. Maybe put a red ruby indicator on the palms of their hands that blinks when their 33rd birthday happens.
Just an idea.
Since my first post, I always said the same thing : 13-15M per year for Iggy at this stage of his carreer isn't wise. If the goal of this team is to win a championship next year, it makes sense, but it doesn't seems to be pelicans's situation.
A precedence ? Never heard about James Harden ? OKC didn't want him to give him the max, they propose him a good extension, he declinates it, so they trade him for young players and future cap relief (aka Martin) because they didn't want to pay tons of money in tax.
For your information, the supertax isn't striking 4 years from now, it starts within two years, like the "repeat tax". And some team (like Golden State) may have a hard time (they're already over the tax, need to retain Jack/Landry and to extend Barnes/Thompson).
Once again, for a good bargain (around 10M per year) I would love Iggy as a pelican. I like the fit as a point forward with our scoring-oriented back-court.
In a similar vein to what Blattman is saying above I'd also like to point out a flaw in Eman's argument in which he states that there isn't any precedence when this is a brand new CBA and as such none exists yet.
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I am of the opinion... that because our core is still growing, learning and impoving spending upwards of 60 million on 2nd or 3rd banana is not a wise investment. Its about value. Yes. Iguodola in a vaccuum makes us better. Guess what? We were a 27 win team. A lot of shiite makes us better, but what happens if we are stuck hitting the 49 win roof and can't move forward. I love Iggy to death, but where was his intangible, defensive minded toughness, when his 57 win Denver was biting the big one against an inferior team? Harsh criticism? Freakin eh. But that's the kind of vetting you need to do when you are discussing that kind of money... and yes his age matters. Clearly, he can play and clearly he has plenty left to offer..but for 60 million you need the possibility of growth...or you need a sure thing. Iguodola provides neither. He's exactly the type of player that gets coaches fired (see Nuggets, Denver) or creates unfair expectations (see Nets, Brooklyn) why? because he's not a 1st line difference maker.
Draft Trey Burke and see how he and Vazquez respond to competition.
Sign Martell Webster and resign Aminu and see who earns the right to be on the floor.
Evaluate how a healthy Gordon and Ryan Anderson work together.
See how Anthony Davis responds to the day to day expectations of high level play.
Do this. Determine the DNA of your team and figure out WHERE you need to spend your money. Don't do it just because.
I don't think the coach was fired because of Iggy
I don't know if you know this, but all the perennial all-stars are all signed up... So we might as well get the best we can get cause IMO we really don't have any good trading pieces.(I think we overvalue Gravy and lopez)
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You're missing the point.
Your GM/Owner swung a trade for a guy making 15 mil. You won 57 games. You lost in the first round. Your GM is wondering why you are paying THREE guys 8 figure salaries to get bounced in the 1st rd by an inferior team. He wasn't the reason. He was certainly part of the equation. We sign Iggy and Benson's expectations rise. Regardless, of his true impact. Which doesn't match the contract. Hence, why coaches will get fired.
And so because there's no perennial all-stars on the market, you pay a worse player with the same kind of money. Yeah, it makes so much sense.
Well keeping Benson's expectations low by not spending money is certainly a good idea.
In the playoffs this year, Iguodala put up 18/5.5/8 + two steals and had a PER of 20. Denver lost because the Warriors are a very good team, Gallanari was out, and Brewer (whom so many here are enamored with signing) was atrocious.
You guys are so picky about players. Let me know when these all star free agents come lining up to New Orleans (because that's how we get all these great players right?) then let's have a game of pick em'.
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So u want to continue tanking every year. Got it
Last edited by GeauxPelicans; 06-17-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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It makes even more sense to wait for a perennial all star to sign as a FA with the Pelicans right? Face it guys, the Pelicans aren't going to attract a max level player. We have to trade for them (Gordon) or draft them (Davis). So, yes I'd pay Iggy the $$$. He's worth it, he was an important cog in Team USA's gold medal run this year, but he isn't worth a 15 million a year contract from the Pelicans? Just to be clear I'm not paying him 15 million a year for 4 years unless the 4th year is a team option. If he wants 4 guaranteed years, the yearly average goes down
Make no mistake bout it. He just turned down 16m/year this year. He's going to want the longer contract. I think 4y/48m. But I would try to entice him with 3y/44m.
It's pretty common knowledge that players who still have value will usually turn down a large sum of money in their final year in order to secure a larger long term contract.
Then why is everyone saying 3 years like that's a reasonable expectation? He just turned down 16m for 1 year for a longer contract but he's going to accept 3 years from us? {edited by moderator}.
I didn't say that. I don't expect him to sign with anyone for 3 years. But it was a wise decision to turn down the final year of his contract to secure a lengthy contract that will more than likely be his final long term contract.
If we don't get good, experienced players to play with Davis and just try to develop him and the other young players we draft, they may leave sooner than later if the chemistry, talent and outlook isn't good enough. No player can do it by themselves, especially young players with the lack of experience, lack of help, guidance etc. The thunder drafted greatly but in the finals but they lacked leadership and experience. If you guys think Davis can be Duncan like by himself, you are forgetting Duncan had Robinson to learn from and look up too. He will need some kind of example, and help for him to become a that staple of leadership.
Building through the draft is nothing but a roll of the dice they may get you diamonds or coal, that if lucky may take 2-3 years to develop. Which means if you get a high pick next year that's another step back in development. What is not is looking at players who've actually can contribute along with experience. This will give more of foundation and direction to build upon to help those young players grow and find their place by example, find a role, their strengths and potentially grow into good players. These are players that take weight off superstars giving them a chance a become great. Even if Iggy is on the downward end of his career hell bring with him IQ and experience that the other players can learn from. He's more of leader than Peja and Posey. Plus he'll help us win which rooks can't for at-least a few years which in the long term gives us a better possibility of KEEPING Davis which would be better than him realizing he can't do it by himself(Lebron, Bosh and maybe even Shaq and Garnet) and leaving us in the dirt starting over AGAIN. Surround him with good players now that can develop a chemistry,winning culture so when he and the other players develops...BOOM. Lol I'm bored.
R.I.P. to HunnyB/FlyGirl
I like the way you think...I approve this message.
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It took Durant several years to make the playoffs. This is year 2 of the AD era. People need to have some patience.
It was year 3 that OKC made the playoffs. Pretty fast actually.
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