Is Vasquez the long term answer?

[TPDG22]

Dell definitely needs to re-sign him as soon as possible. I believe he can become an even better PG. I'm very glad he's getting experience at being the team's #1 leader and starting PG.

[Snarly]

One fewer than Rondo. Five fewer than Derek Fisher.

And probably the same number Gravy as a Pelican will get if we keep things as they are.

If you really believe this, then why are you pushing for an big time PG? Shouldn't the team avoid overspending at the position and put their resources into other positions that would take the team over the top?

[JJackisangry]

I'd have Greivis higher up on my list of PGs if he actually became efficient shooting. His TS% is only 50%. If he got it up to 55-56%, he'd be in my top 15. For now, he's right around 20-23.

Perfect point. Ive been on the same boat; Vazquez needs to either become an elite shooter or somewhat close. This will help open passing lanes, and give us the lift we desperately need need offensively. Steve Nash is one of the best shooters of the decade, but he cannot defend a rock. We need to pass better as a team, and we need someone capable of covering for vazquez's shortcomings. Vazquez meanwhile cannot try to take on the entire offensive burden on himself like he does at times. That is where he really rubs people the wrong way.

[Pelicans78]

I'm not sure Greivis will cost this team a championship. He's not really a make or break guy. His defense is a liability and he needs to improve aspects of his game offensively, but this franchise will go as far as Davis and Gordon will take them. Do I think Greivis is a top 20 PG? I'm not sure. Offensively he needs to improve his shooting and turnovers and he's bad defensively. However, this team can improve in other areas, especially defensively. I think he's a good stop gap for now and he's cheap. Long-term not sure. Still, this team will go as far as Davis, Gordon, and the next lottery pick will take them.

[Eman5805]

If you really believe this, then why are you pushing for an big time PG? Shouldn't the team avoid overspending at the position and put their resources into other positions that would take the team over the top?

I'm pushing for a big time anything. Big time center, big time wing. Whatever. I have players I really like. But I've never said we need a big time PG specifically.

[Pelicans78]

If you really believe this, then why are you pushing for an big time PG? Shouldn't the team avoid overspending at the position and put their resources into other positions that would take the team over the top?

I agree with this too. This team has alot of deficiencies, especially defensively. Lopez is good for now, but this team needs a big body who can defend and rebound. Also need a SF who can shoot. Need Davis to develop in the paint (hopefully more like Duncan instead of Garnett) and Gordon to prove he can become an elite SG.

[JJackisangry]

My biggest fear is Vazquez asking for more than 6 mil a year. I really like gravy but im not sure hes the best man for this team. The ball movement isnt fluid enough; it must improve. Meanwhile the only legit inside threat we have is Lopez. We really need our bigs to work on that for next year. Ryno has nice footwork he just needs to work on the finishing a little (hell the refs can blow the whistle every once in a while too).

[WhoDatPelican]

Bench players don't get triple doubles...it just doesn't happen.

Fisher has 5 rings and is far worse than GV. Again, You don't need an All Star PG to win a title.

We have MUCH BIGGER problems right now then Gravy.......Fix those, Find an identity, then re-address. Pretty simple if you ask me.

[BallSoHard]

That's great and impressive. But you can also seriously argue that Vasquez isn't even a top 20 pg in the league.

You also can't deny his production. I'm on the Burke bandwagon, so you know I think we need something else there, but people pick gravy apart like he's the Prob with our team.

[Eman5805]

Bench players don't get triple doubles...it just doesn't happen.

Fisher has 5 rings and is far worse than GV. Again, You don't need an All Star PG to win a title.

We have MUCH BIGGER problems right now then Gravy.......Fix those, Find an identity, then re-address. Pretty simple if you ask me.

It all sounds very simple. The thing is, when you're trying to acquire top tier talent, do you hesitate to trade your above average players in the process?

Means and ends.

[AD23forMVP]

You also can't deny his production. I'm on the Burke bandwagon, so you know I think we need something else there, but people pick gravy apart like he's the Prob with our team.

Again, my biggest problem with Vasquez will always be his defense. I just do not see how we can get to where we want to be defensively if he's playing big minutes. I must say though, I'm not saying to ship him out of here like I do for Roberts. I like Vasquez, I hope he sticks around for a long time, but as a backup.

I'd also ask, I hear people talk about Jeff Teague as "settling." Is Vasquez not in that group also? Who here would say Vasquez is better than Teague? Why isn't keeping Vasquez as our starter settling?

And seriously, people need to stop bringing up Fisher and Chalmers. Kobe, DWade, or Lebron will not be walking through that door anytime soon.

[UNO Gracias]

Who's trading all star talent for mid tier players? Find them and rob them if the opportunity arises.

[BallSoHard]

Again, my biggest problem with Vasquez will always be his defense. I just do not see how we can get to where we want to be defensively if he's playing big minutes. I must say though, I'm not saying to ship him out of here like I do for Roberts. I like Vasquez, I hope he sticks around for a long time, but as a backup.

I'd also ask, I hear people talk about Jeff Teague as "settling." Is Vasquez not in that group also? Who here would say Vasquez is better than Teague? Why isn't keeping Vasquez as our starter settling?

And seriously, people need to stop bringing up Fisher and Chalmers. Kobe, DWade, or Lebron will not be walking through that door anytime soon.

Teague isn't any better or worse than Vasquez imo and (i would predict) would cost much more. He has strengths that Vasquez doesn't but it works the other way around as well. Is Vasquez settling ? A bit but the devil you know is better than the one you don't. Unless we're getting a true upgrade (which Teague isn't IMO) then I'm on the Vasquez train.

I completely get you defense argument, but my vision for this team has been to stick Gordon or Aminu (or whoever we get at the 3) on the pg and stick Vasquez on the shooter that most people start on the wing. Vasquez will never be able to stay with an explosive first step guy no matter how hoard he works, but can he put a hand in the face of a gallanari ? I think so.

[AD23forMVP]

Teague isn't any better or worse than Vasquez imo and (i would predict) would cost much more. He has strengths that Vasquez doesn't but it works the other way around as well. Is Vasquez settling ? A bit but the devil you know is better than the one you don't. Unless we're getting a true upgrade (which Teague isn't IMO) then I'm on the Vasquez train.

I completely get you defense argument, but my vision for this team has been to stick Gordon or Aminu (or whoever we get at the 3) on the pg and stick Vasquez on the shooter that most people start on the wing. Vasquez will never be able to stay with an explosive first step guy no matter how hoard he works, but can he put a hand in the face of a gallanari ? I think so.

Defense is what sets them apart. I know I keep repeating "defense, defense, defense" but I don't think people really realize how poor of a defender Greivis is, Monty eluded to it after the Utah game. Teague may not be the passer Greivis is but he's better in pretty much every other category.

I mean people like to talk about Greivis' scoring but don't talk about his ts% which is just 50% this year, which is poor. Teague's at 55% which is good. I don't think Teague is a great player by any means, but I don't really have to think long and hard about who's better. It's clearly Teague.

And your theory of swapping defensive responsiblities is fine, but it doesn't take into account that Monty has never been one to switch it up. 1's will guard 1's, 2's will guard 2's, etc. That could obviously change but Monty has never shown any indication that it will.

[UNO Gracias]

If your making a move for a pg that doesn't pass as well as the guy you are giving up, it doesn't matter if the other guy can do everything else well, the role of the pg is to pass the ball.

[AD23forMVP]

That's kind of an idiotic statement. There are quite a few PG's who aren't the passers GV is but I'm sure everyone would take them over him in a heartbeat. Not to mention PG's have a lot of roles.

[UNO Gracias]

That's kind of an idiotic statement. There are quite a few PG's who aren't the passers GV is but I'm sure everyone would take them over him in a heartbeat. Not to mention PG's have a lot of roles.

Where is your list anyway? You say he isn't a top 20 pg, well tell us who is better.

GV is better than Teague for this system as you need a passer. you have your shooters, you have your def. specialists. What GV brings that Teague wouldn't is his ability to pass and create for others. Could he create more lobs for AD and Aminu? Sure, but for his age, and experience he is right where he needs to be.

[AD23forMVP]

I'd be interested in knowing what you think the system is? No system needs or requires a passer like Greivis.

[Inner_GI]

List of PGs I would take before Vasquez:

1. Chris Paul
2. Tony Parker
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Jrue Holiday
5. Kyrie Irving
6. Stephen Curry
7. Brandon Jennings
8. Ty Lawson
9. George Hill
10. Jose Calderon
11. Eric Bledsoe
12. Damian Lillard
13. Deron Williams
14. Monta Ellis
15. Ricky Rubio
16. Kyle Lowry
17. John Wall

[Snarly]

Ellis isn't a point guard and Calderon is 31... Come on man..

[FlyGirl]

Let's put a little humor in this thread.



https://twitter.com/ryananderson33/s...062401/photo/1

https://twitter.com/ryananderson33/s...178560/photo/1

https://twitter.com/ryananderson33/s...133954/photo/1

[AD23forMVP]

Here's my list of PG's I would take over Greivis over a two year period (in no particular order):

1. Tony Parker
2. Mike Conley
3. Jeremy Lin
4. Chris Paul
5. Jrue Holiday
6. Kyrie Irving
7. Russell Westbrook
8. Rajon Rondo
9. Derrick Rose
10. Deron Williams
11. Steph Curry
12. Damian Lillard
13. Brandon Jennings
14. Kyle Lowry
15. Eric Bledsoe
16. Goran Dragic
17. Ty Lawson
18. Jeff Teague
19. George Hill
20. John Wall
21. Ricky Rubio

That's 21 right there. And I didn't include guys like Jarrett Jack, Jose Calderon, Brandon Knight, Raymond Felton, Mario Chalmers, etc

[hornets504]

I would rather trade Gordon than GV

[Snarly]

Some of the guys on your list can't even run the pick and roll well. Bledsoe, Hill, and Teague are terrible at it. Dragic hasn't done anything worthwhile since coming to phoenix. Knight isn't really a PG. He's more of a SG playing the position. Felton? Come on. Chalmer? Demps certainly doesn't think so.

Like I said earlier, you going off your personal bias/feelings and there's no facts involved. Vasquez is one of the few PGs who can play offguard as well as on guard. That is an incredibly rare skill for PGs. He may not be the perfect PG, but he's ideal for this roster which is full of players who need help creating their offense.

[AD23forMVP]

So you'd take Vasquez over Bledsoe, Hill, and Teague because they can't run the pick and roll?

I'm sorry, but I'm not the one going off personal bias/feelings. Call it fact, call it opinion, call it whatever you want but there is no argument for stating Greivis is better than those guys. There just isn't.

And if you want stats, Vasquez averages 0.74 points per possession, shoots 44% out of it, turns it over 22% of the time, and scores 36% of the time. Bledsoe averages 0.79 points per possession, shoots 43%, turns it out 15% of the time, and scores 40% of the time. George averages 0.86 points per possession, shoots 40%, turns it over 12% of the time, and scores 39% of the time. Teague scores 0.75 points, shoots 38%, turns it out 20% of the time, and scores 36% of the time. Now you read into that however you please, but there are the stats you asked for. We can talk about how well they defend the pick and roll too, if you would like.