January 19th - New Orleans Pelicans vs Phoenix Suns - 25-17

[Fedupfan]

Let’s start by getting Herb out of the starting lineup and go from there.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Scoot hasn't shown nearly enough for me to consider the second one. The first one I'd need to think about but seems much more realistic.

BI and Zion have shown what they are. They aren't the guys.

You need to target potential. It's too late when they are Halliburton, Lauri or SGA.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

There should be no talk of trading Zion or BI without a generational talent coming back. I don't want to trade either of those guys unless it's for all-nba caliber talent. And teams dont gives up those kinds of players so it's just not happening in all likelihood. What i would do is try to get one or more hard nosed veteran players with that dog like mentality, mental toughness and a fighting spirit, who has enough respect in the locker room to push our stars and bring out more tenacity. I'd trade BI for Jimmy Butler because he brings that quality but otherwise I think we have to go all in with them.

If you need to push a guy to stop eating who is making 30M plus and another guy to take more 3's 50M+, are these the players you want on your team?

It's time to cut ties, even if you get 75 cents in a dollar.

[Fedupfan]

If you need to push a guy to stop eating who is making 30M plus and another guy to take more 3's 50M+, are these the players you want on your team?

It's time to cut ties, even if you get 75 cents in a dollar.

Absolute truth.

[hornetsrebirth]

If you need to push a guy to stop eating who is making 30M plus and another guy to take more 3's 50M+, are these the players you want on your team?

It's time to cut ties, even if you get 75 cents in a dollar.

Yes they are the players I want my team, unless you're giving me a Jokic or something. The team we have right now is the best Pelicans team that New Orleans has ever had. Literally. It's not perfect but I damn sure am not trying to go back to how it was before. Coach the young guys up and build around them. Definitely don't trade them away for some stupid pieces that are gonna make us worse.

[hornetsrebirth]

Absolute truth.

Absolute idiocy.

[Fedupfan]

Absolute idiocy.

Idiocy if you are ok with paying that type of money to players that won’t move the needle.

[hornetsrebirth]

Idiocy if you are ok with paying that type of money to players that won’t move the needle.

The needled has moved considerably since we got those guys. I feel like you must not have been a Pelicans fan for very long.

[Fedupfan]

The needled has moved considerably since we got those guys. I feel like you must not have been a Pelicans fan for very long.

I feel like you haven’t been a Pels fan that long. The needle is stuck in the same spot. They still lose the same way and don’t show up when the other team gets physical. Nothing new. They do beat teams that stink now more so than often. I’ll give you that. But, they almost always lose to teams that play physical. Became a Hornets fan in 2002 and a Pelicans fan in 2013. This team is nowhere near as physical as the Mashburn and PJ Brown days. What you are saying is you are so used to trash that mediocrity is accepted, because trash is way worse. That’s fine, but not everyone is ok with that. Some of us want to see them actually play like the paper talent they are.

[hornetsrebirth]

I feel like you haven’t been a Pels fan that long. The needle is stuck in the same spot. They still lose the same way and don’t show up when the other team gets physical. Nothing new. They do beat teams that stink now more so than often. I’ll give you that. But, they almost always lose to teams that play physical. Became a Hornets fan in 2002 and a Pelicans fan in 2013. This team is nowhere near as physical as the Mashburn and PJ Brown days. What you are saying is you are so used to trash that mediocrity is accepted, because trash is way worse. That’s fine, but not everyone is ok with that. Some of us want to see them actually play like the paper talent they are.

The Pelicans missed the playoffs last year, this year we are first in the division and 5th in the conference. That is not being stuck in the same spot. That is not mediocrity.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Yes they are the players I want my team, unless you're giving me a Jokic or something. The team we have right now is the best Pelicans team that New Orleans has ever had. Literally. It's not perfect but I damn sure am not trying to go back to how it was before. Coach the young guys up and build around them. Definitely don't trade them away for some stupid pieces that are gonna make us worse.

I aren't trading the young guys.

I am trading BI and Zion who will make 80M+ who will not ever get out of the 2nd round.

In case you missed it:

Charlotte - BI (or Zion) and Zeller.
Pels - Washington, Miller and Williams.

Portland - Zion (or BI) and Naji.
Pels - Henderson and Brogdan.

1st rounders can be added if required.

Let Jonas walk to use on FA's or re-sign him on a 1-2 year contract to move him in the 24/25 deadline.

The Pel's can recoup picks when they trade CJ and LNJ in their last season. To a larger extent if they re-sign JV (2 years) it's 4 quality players at the deadline over the next 2 years with MB.

I am building my team around Miller, Williams, Henderson, Herb, Murphy, Dyson, Hawkins and what ever picks we get with expiring's CJ, LNJ, MB and JV over the next 2 years.

Look at OKC, they understand sunk cost, I wish our GM did.

[donato]

I aren't trading the young guys.

I am trading BI and Zion who will make 80M+ who will not ever get out of the 2nd round.

In case you missed it:

Charlotte - BI (or Zion) and Zeller.
Pels - Washington, Miller and Williams.

Portland - Zion (or BI) and Naji.
Pels - Henderson and Brogdan.

1st rounders can be added if required.

Let Jonas walk to use on FA's or re-sign him on a 1-2 year contract to move him in the 24/25 deadline.

The Pel's can recoup picks when they trade CJ and LNJ in their last season. To a larger extent if they re-sign JV (2 years) it's 4 quality players at the deadline over the next 2 years with MB.

I am building my team around Miller, Williams, Henderson, Herb, Murphy, Dyson, Hawkins and what ever picks we get with expiring's CJ, LNJ, MB and JV over the next 2 years.

Look at OKC, they understand sunk cost, I wish our GM did.

You do realize Henderson has been terrible, right? He'd immediately be the at the end of the bench on our team. I don't think Willie would even play him. It's still early, but he's smelling like a bust.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

You do realize Henderson has been terrible, right? He'd immediately be the at the end of the bench on our team. I don't think Willie would even play him. It's still early, but he's smelling like a bust.

I am more confident he will become something as he has the dog and determination in him.
Can't say that about Mr Williamson.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Just look at the expiring contracts the Pel's would have to collect more 1sts and other boderline players with these expirings (shown in yellow).
You can trade Brogdan, LNJ and Jose at the deadline in 2024-25 and then you have CJ,JV and Washington in 2025-26 (assuming that JV signs on a 2 year contract at the end of this year).

Then still have your young core of Jones, Miller, Henderson, Daniels, Hawkins, Murphy and Williams to work with as the cap numbers are still in favour.

Can't say that if you re-sign BI for 50M+ and have Zion for another 36M+.
Some of Murphy, Herb, Daniels and Hawkins will have to be offloaded to keep two guy's who just won't work who will eat up 50% of your cap.

[PELICANSFAN]

I feel like you haven’t been a Pels fan that long. The needle is stuck in the same spot. They still lose the same way and don’t show up when the other team gets physical. Nothing new. They do beat teams that stink now more so than often. I’ll give you that. But, they almost always lose to teams that play physical. Became a Hornets fan in 2002 and a Pelicans fan in 2013. This team is nowhere near as physical as the Mashburn and PJ Brown days. What you are saying is you are so used to trash that mediocrity is accepted, because trash is way worse. That’s fine, but not everyone is ok with that. Some of us want to see them actually play like the paper talent they are.

If you are trying to compare today's NBA to 2002, you will be disappointed. Teams from 2002 would foul out in the 1st quarter in today's soft NBA.

[PELICANSFAN]

I aren't trading the young guys.

I am trading BI and Zion who will make 80M+ who will not ever get out of the 2nd round.

In case you missed it:

Charlotte - BI (or Zion) and Zeller.
Pels - Washington, Miller and Williams.

Portland - Zion (or BI) and Naji.
Pels - Henderson and Brogdan.

1st rounders can be added if required.

Let Jonas walk to use on FA's or re-sign him on a 1-2 year contract to move him in the 24/25 deadline.

The Pel's can recoup picks when they trade CJ and LNJ in their last season. To a larger extent if they re-sign JV (2 years) it's 4 quality players at the deadline over the next 2 years with MB.

I am building my team around Miller, Williams, Henderson, Herb, Murphy, Dyson, Hawkins and what ever picks we get with expiring's CJ, LNJ, MB and JV over the next 2 years.

Look at OKC, they understand sunk cost, I wish our GM did.

So you just want to take a bunch of lottery tickets on unproven players and think that will do it? And you think those rebuilding teams will trade cost controlled unknowns already and cash in now as if they are ready to win with veterans. Why not just assume we can get Wemby as well? This is not NBA2K. There has to be some reality.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

So you just want to take a bunch of lottery tickets on unproven players and think that will do it? And you think those rebuilding teams will trade cost controlled unknowns already and cash in now as if they are ready to win with veterans. Why not just assume we can get Wemby as well? This is not NBA2K. There has to be some reality.

I would take the unknown chance that those so called unproven players over the known of BI who after 7 season still isn't an Allstar (ok maybe ones in 7) and Zion who after 5 years still hasn't improved his game.
So yeah give the unknown over the known.

As for NBA2K:

I think I also mentioned adding 1st round picks being added to the BI and Zion trades, which isn't that far fetched.
I have seen far more fantasy trades on here.

It will never happen though because Griff is too in love with BI and will pay him 50M+ and for some reason is building around a guy who has too many flaws.

[hornetsrebirth]

I aren't trading the young guys.

I am trading BI and Zion who will make 80M+ who will not ever get out of the 2nd round.

In case you missed it:

Charlotte - BI (or Zion) and Zeller.
Pels - Washington, Miller and Williams.

Portland - Zion (or BI) and Naji.
Pels - Henderson and Brogdan.

1st rounders can be added if required.

Let Jonas walk to use on FA's or re-sign him on a 1-2 year contract to move him in the 24/25 deadline.

The Pel's can recoup picks when they trade CJ and LNJ in their last season. To a larger extent if they re-sign JV (2 years) it's 4 quality players at the deadline over the next 2 years with MB.

I am building my team around Miller, Williams, Henderson, Herb, Murphy, Dyson, Hawkins and what ever picks we get with expiring's CJ, LNJ, MB and JV over the next 2 years.

Look at OKC, they understand sunk cost, I wish our GM did.

I didnt miss it, those garbage trade ideas are why i posted saying what a bad idea it would be. BI and Zion are the best players out of everyone you mentioned. That's why you have yourself taking back multiple players for each one in a trade, because you know none of the players coming back are better than the one going out, otherwise it would be us sending multiple guys for a single player. The Pelicans are already deep enough. We dont need more depth, we need sheer excellence.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

I didnt miss it, those garbage trade ideas are why i posted saying what a bad idea it would be. BI and Zion are the best players out of everyone you mentioned. That's why you have yourself taking back multiple players for each one in a trade, because you know none of the players coming back are better than the one going out, otherwise it would be us sending multiple guys for a single player. The Pelicans are already deep enough. We dont need more depth, we need sheer excellence.

I take it you know that salaries have to match and this is why I am sending out 35M BI for 3 players?
Same goes with Zion.

Are you suggesting that Charlotte or even Portalnd would do this trade?
I think you would need to add picks to Zion to get the deal done.

Take the rose coloured glasses off.
BI and Zion arent that good.
There is a reason why they aren't even in the top 30 players in the NBA and until the Pel's get a player of that caliber then they will only be 1st round playoffs as a ceiling.

But I agree, this team needs sheer excellence and neither BI and Zion provide this, so does this mean they should pay BI 50M and keep flogging the same team around Zion?

[PELICANSFAN]

I take it you know that salaries have to match and this is why I am sending out 35M BI for 3 players?
Same goes with Zion.

Are you suggesting that Charlotte or even Portalnd would do this trade?
I think you would need to add picks to Zion to get the deal done.

Take the rose coloured glasses off.
BI and Zion arent that good.
There is a reason why they aren't even in the top 30 players in the NBA and until the Pel's get a player of that caliber then they will only be 1st round playoffs as a ceiling.

But I agree, this team needs sheer excellence and neither BI and Zion provide this, so does this mean they should pay BI 50M and keep flogging the same team around Zion?

You think we would have to add picks to Zion (who is under a solid contract for several years) to get an underperforming player currently? OK.

[Pelicanidae]

I didnt miss it, those garbage trade ideas are why i posted saying what a bad idea it would be. BI and Zion are the best players out of everyone you mentioned. That's why you have yourself taking back multiple players for each one in a trade, because you know none of the players coming back are better than the one going out, otherwise it would be us sending multiple guys for a single player. The Pelicans are already deep enough. We dont need more depth, we need sheer excellence.

Basically agree with this. The idea of trading Zion for a PJ Washington centred move is absurd.

I get the concerns, and I think that it's valid to criticise the approach the team is taking (I criticise it myself a lot) but the idea of trading away the only guy on the team who has ever shown top 15 ability for pennies on the dollar, on a good value contract, just because you're frustrated is wild to me.

BI's incoming contract is more of a concern, but again, I'm not trading him just for the sake of it. It has to be actual value coming back, and the proposals here aren't worth it.

I'll also note that the ''I'm not trading the young guys, I'm trading Zion and BI, keeping Trey and Herb and Hawkins'' thing is funny when you remember that Zion is younger than both Herb and Trey.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

You think we would have to add picks to Zion (who is under a solid contract for several years) to get an underperforming player currently? OK.

Zion only has value amongst Pels fans. Most GM's know he is a one trick pony who after 5 years still can't be in shape. I'm done with him and I'd rather a team of less talented guys who are committed to their craft.

There is a reason why the ball moves freely when he isn't playing.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Basically agree with this. The idea of trading Zion for a PJ Washington centred move is absurd.

I get the concerns, and I think that it's valid to criticise the approach the team is taking (I criticise it myself a lot) but the idea of trading away the only guy on the team who has ever shown top 15 ability for pennies on the dollar, on a good value contract, just because you're frustrated is wild to me.

BI's incoming contract is more of a concern, but again, I'm not trading him just for the sake of it. It has to be actual value coming back, and the proposals here aren't worth it.

I'll also note that the ''I'm not trading the young guys, I'm trading Zion and BI, keeping Trey and Herb and Hawkins'' thing is funny when you remember that Zion is younger than both Herb and Trey.

It's not just about getting equal return it's also about what a contract like BI and Zion will do to this roster. Having 80M (nearly 50%) on two players who wouldn't sniff the top 30 in the NBA is sickening.

Look all this moot. It will never happen as either both or atleast one will be on the team.

If it's BI on 50M or Zion who is flawed then I'd go Zion purely because it gives the team more flexibility in the future when the inevitable happens and the team rebuilds again.

[donato]

The idea of trading Zion for a PJ Washington centred move is absurd.

To be fair, I'd think Miller and Williams are a lot more valuable than Washington.

[PELICANSFAN]

Zion only has value amongst Pels fans. Most GM's know he is a one trick pony who after 5 years still can't be in shape. I'm done with him and I'd rather a team of less talented guys who are committed to their craft.

There is a reason why the ball moves freely when he isn't playing.

I don't buy that at all. I think he still has value, especially given his contract situation.