Ginobili also was molded to come off the bench his whole career. CJ was not and he certainly won't at the prime of his career at age 30.Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
 |
| . |
|
Ginobili also was molded to come off the bench his whole career. CJ was not and he certainly won't at the prime of his career at age 30.
the problem your argument is that it is not that it?s not based on what produces the best results for the team. You are saying he has to start because, well just because.
I'm saying he has to start given the type of player he is and where we are in the season. Which is 21 games. Then who do you have take his place? 19 year old Dyson?? This is the definition of knee jerk.
These are also not NBA2k npcs. These are human beings with feelings and egos.
You think you can simply slide him to the bench and you'll see his production increase. I say it won't.
I wouldn't start Dyson. I would start Jose or TM3. Zion should be the primary ball handler.
BECAUSE you don’t pay a bench player 30+ million a year.
And yet, despite knowing this, you think CJ will just naturally give up all the stuff his feelings and ego pull towards without anyone intervening in any significant way? I just don't get it.
Basketball.
Why not? Not my money.
Zion was HUGE in this one - GREAT win! That Team effort is just amazing
Look up "sunk cost fallacy". The best way to maximize your investment in a player is to use him in a way that benefits the team the most. If leading the 2nd unit is better for the team, then its a better use of 30 million.
Westbrook is making $47m a year and now he's coming off the bench. Just saying.
Cj as a super sub but still getting 30min playing time would be ideal but i doubt that happens.. cj would still fit in the starting 5 but the offense has to run to Zion now and have cj on one side and bi on the other side since it would open up the lane for zion to operate cause cj and bi can hit the 3 ball and they have their own gravity as well. Zion and then bi should be the focal point, once they sit then cj can do his thing.
Thats assuming the better use is with the 2nd unit. Which after just 21 games (8 games with BI, CJ, and Zion??), the evidence is flimsy bordering on silly.
We are not talking about some inanimate object where you know what you're getting regardless.
And this human object can't easily be sold and replaced.
Last edited by luckyman; 12-01-2022 at 09:07 PM.
So far the top 5 performances from the Pelicans have all come with at least 1 of our big 3 out. We have played over 20 games its not really a flimsy sample size. There is enough game data for this trend to merit consideration and not just be dismissed.
Its pretty clear that Zion does not come close to reaching his potential as an off ball player, he needs the ball in his hands for his potential to be unlocked. With CJ and BI both being ball dominant guys, Zion gets lost in the shuffle. So the choice is either CJ relinquishes being the guy who the offense runs through, or he can still be that guy but do it off the bench as the 6th man. You seem worried about his ego if he is made to come off the bench so how do you think he will react to being reduced to an offball guy with Zion running the offense?
The majority of the 21 games played have come with at least 1 of them out. The sample size with all 3 of them playing, which is 8 games, is flimsy. There is no way around that fact.
Looking at a "top 5" games this early amounts to almost a quarter of the games played.
So then what you are saying is of the 8 games where all 3 have been in the starting lineup, not a single one of those games is in the top quarter of our best performances
A 22 point victory at Brooklyn is among their top 5 performances.
Other than that, why should any of the rest be? It's 8 games. EIGHT.
But this is common from short term memory fans. It's like in Lebron's 1st season in Miami and they started 9-8, people said Wade should come off the bench and he's the problem.
Don't believe me? Who does this sound like rn? "Dwyane Wade in the middle of everything wrong with Miami"
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2010/11/29...ng-with-miami/Wade is struggling with his shot, and he is down across the board with it. Last season he shot 67 percent on shots at the rim, this season it is down to 55.7 percent (via hoopdata). He’s been good in the shorter midrange, but from beyond 16 feet things get worse, with him shooting 18 percent from 16 feet out to the arc and 25.5 percent beyond it. Both numbers are well down from last year. His percentage of shots assisted on has dropped as well.
This was written right as the Heat were 9-8. They were also 13-8 after 21 games without all these injuries.
Yall just need to R-E-L-A-X
Last edited by luckyman; 12-01-2022 at 10:44 PM.
It's not his feelings and ego making him shoot at career lows this year. It's not his feelings or ego stalling the Pelicans offense or defense. Most of his shots are the type he's made his whole career.
And it will not take some significant changes in order for this team to see success with all 3 of them playing together. Just time on the floor together (more than 8 games) to establish a rhythm and comfort level as a starting unit. Just like for any team.
Last edited by luckyman; 12-01-2022 at 10:50 PM.
I am relaxed, I'm just not in denial. I don't see the need to be adamant about dismissing what we've seen with our own eyes on the court. When Zion is running the offense he thrives and the team thrives as well. Maybe I just have more faith in CJ than you do. You seem to think his ego would make him incapable of putting the team's best interest above his own desires, but I don't see him as that type of person.
Im curious how many more games do you need to see with CJ as our primary ball handler and taking more shot attempts than Zion before you'd entertain that its not producing the best outcome for our team?
It's not his feelings making him shoot at career lows, but when have I ever mentioned the shooting percentages in this? I'm talking about his style of play - his usage, his on-ball dominance. His career highs in shot volume, not an issue with percentage; his career high (and team high) in touches per game which are up from last year despite the team acquiring another all-star talent (Zion) which are circumstances you would imagine touches dropping rather than increasing.
The issue isn't his shooting splits. Yeah, things would be nice if he was hitting more shots, but that's not the central issue. The issue is that he has spent months and months talking about how this is his opportunity to prove he can do the things he wasn't allowed to in Portland, and he's not going to take *third* seat 'naturally' unless the team goes on a catastrophic losing skid, which it's talented enough to avoid imo. Someone - like, for example, a Coach whose job it is to do this - is going to have to talk to him. CJ will probably take it well because he seems like a nice enough guy and a team player, but he's not going to demote himself when he's specifically talked about wanting to do the exact thing he's currently doing.
And before you tell me to 'relax', just know that I am relaxed. The team is 13-8, and I think we can be 14-8 next game. Best start the Pels have had in years. Team is fun to watch and discuss, and everyone we see on a game to game basis seems to be a good person to root for. Season's going great. I'm not unhappy with where we are. I'm just saying that if we want to max out the season and hit the theoretical team ceiling, I think that happens by making these adjustments.
I agree that CJ's usage this season to this point has not been ideal, but CJ also strikes me as one of the most self-aware and league savvy players I've ever seen. Sure, it's always different when it's YOUR minutes and role that's being discussed than someone else's, but I'd have to believe he'd be smart enough to see when he needs to play a bit more of a "being fed" rather than "doing the feeding/creating" role. It will be very interesting to watch tonight if CJ comes back how that changes the way Zion is used.
It wouldn’t surprise me if by the start of next year, we see a starting lineup with Dyson as the starter and CJ on the bench. I just don’t see it happening this year. I don’t see anyone else on our current roster as a better starting candidate to CJ. Jose is better coming off the bench as a spark plug. You leave him in the starting lineup too long and teams start to adjust and target his size when they’re on offense.
My personal wish list, assuming that everyone’s trajectory is still going in the same direction, is next year we get a starting lineup of Dyson, Trey, BI, Zion, and Jonas (or perhaps a center who is a better rim protector than Jonas).
And a killer bench starring CJ, Jose, Herb, and Larry.
I personally think that Herb is a great closer, and I’d keep him in that role in this lineup, but I think Trey is better as a starter and lets our offense get into a flow much earlier in the game.
Willie and the FO love Herb too much to send him to the bench. Also, I anticipate more offensive growth from Herb. He's staying in the starting lineup indefinitely, I believe. As for Dyson starting over CJ, Dyson's play might force Willie's hand. But what if we draft Scoot with the Lakers pick!!??!?
What a great problem to have!!!! Too many good players. Thank you Griff/Trajan!
100% on board with this. With CJ starting (high volume shooter with below average defense) the lineup needs Herb (great defense and sub par offense) to balance it out. But if next year Dyson replaced CJ in the starting lineup (better defense and less shots being taken) then TM3 would be a perfect fit to round out the starting 5. And herb closing it out makes sense too. What you described is the ideal vision for the team imo.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote