Rank Thes Outcomes

[PelicanProf]

I would trade up for Ivey or Murray as my first choice as I feel both of these players would have a positive impact next year on the team (of course in the future too). I don’t see any players at 8 that would help us next year (by that I mean leading to an increased win share). Based on our current roster I don’t see Mathurin, Daniels or Sochan getting much playing time over what we have currently (I do believe they will all develop into good players though). The Pels are in a unique position where they are close to a win now team even though they are really young (outside of CJ and he still only 30).

[MichaelMcNamara]

We have the best shooting coach in the world, of course we can get his shooting better!

Amazing that we finished bottom 6 in 3pt shooting in three of the past 4 years with the GOAT shooting coach, but that’s not his fault. Vinson only works with the guys who got better. He is responsible for all the successes. The fact that the team as a whole shoots bad every year has nothing to do with him.

Long live Lord Vinson!

[MichaelMcNamara]

BTW, for any one you playing Griff Bingo, the following phrases hit on the Rusillo pod:

"Authentically himself"
"On a human level"
"You can feel their vibration. There is a frequency to them as people"
"Guttural presence"
"Be the full expression of himself"

You can collect your winnings at the box office

[Silverfoxx]

BTW, for any one you playing Griff Bingo, the following phrases hit on the Rusillo pod:

"Authentically himself"
"On a human level"
"You can feel their vibration. There is a frequency to them as people"
"Guttural presence"
"Be the full expression of himself"

You can collect your winnings at the box office

Can't wait for the Griffin Presser resurrection.

[pelafanatic]

We have the best shooting coach in the world, of course we can get his shooting better!

Amazing that we finished bottom 6 in 3pt shooting in three of the past 4 years with the GOAT shooting coach, but that’s not his fault. Vinson only works with the guys who got better. He is responsible for all the successes. The fact that the team as a whole shoots bad every year has nothing to do with him.

Long live Lord Vinson!

Trying not to take the bait here but its super difficult. That contrarian coming out once again

[MichaelMcNamara]

Trying not to take the bait here but its super difficult. That contrarian coming out once again

Or…..balance. Literally everyone else says nothing but positive things about Vinson. But nobody ever shares the facts that don’t back up the “greatest shooting coach alive” narrative.

All I want is accuracy and balance. There is never a balanced convo around Vinson. He is responsible for every guy getting better. But when Ingram has a bad season….silence. When NAW regresses from college….silence. When Jrue and MANY others get better elsewhere…..silence

It’s hilarious to me

[pelafanatic]

I mean obviously like all big wings he's not going to be able to consistently keep smaller guards in front of him. What makes him valuable though, is at 19 he's already a very good team defender. We're talking about a guy who just turned 19, and who comes off the bench directing the other players on his team where to be on defense. He switches really well, seems to understand angles, and is very light on his feet. He definitely meets one of our needs which is guarding perimeter shooters.

I've heard a lot of ravings about Daniels' defense and IQ, which both seem to be fine. But Sochan is the only one who's basketball IQ really pops off the screen for me. The biggest problem with drafting him, is can you afford to bring in another guy who is a bad three point shooter? If you do you have to make the call if you think you can coach his shot up.

I'm of the opinion that perimeter defense and stopping the point of attack is more important than the rover role or center role that Sochan would likely be playing. I also think the best iteration of this team long term involves Zion playing that rover role. The Pelicans need another point of attack defender outside of Herb and Jose. As much as I love Jose, he shouldn't be so pivotal to your defense that he's closing games in the playoffs against a 64 win team. Willie got to the point where he was forced to play Naji in the playoffs in the minutes Herb was unavailable because there was no one else who could pressure the ball. Daniels has that upside as an on ball defender at the POA. He's also further along as a passer, ball handler, and, iin my opinion, as a shooter. He fits seamlessly next to CJ and BI while also possessing some of the highest upside in the class.

If he wasn't redundant with Herb, I would be more intrigued.

[pelafanatic]

Or…..balance. Literally everyone else says nothing but positive things about Vinson. But nobody ever shares the facts that don’t back up the “greatest shooting coach alive” narrative.

All I want is accuracy and balance. There is never a balanced convo around Vinson. He is responsible for every guy getting better. But when Ingram has a bad season….silence. When NAW regresses from college….silence. When Jrue and MANY others get better elsewhere…..silence

It’s hilarious to me

Jrue was not putting in the work with Vinson lol. Guy had way more stuff outside of basketball when he was with the Pels to worry about shooting 38% from 3. Ask anyone in the organization.

It's just funny that anytime anyone brings up Vinson you have to go the other way with it. But in this situation, no one even brought him up!

[The Dud]

We have the best shooting coach in the world, of course we can get his shooting better!

Amazing that we finished bottom 6 in 3pt shooting in three of the past 4 years with the GOAT shooting coach, but that’s not his fault. Vinson only works with the guys who got better. He is responsible for all the successes. The fact that the team as a whole shoots bad every year has nothing to do with him.

Long live Lord Vinson!

Be prepared...the Pels shot 33.2% from 3 this year & finished 27th.. The league average was 35.4%. Next year the Pels will finish 12th on 3-pt % and if I have this figured correctly, and I probably do, the Pels will shoot 36.12% from 3. Whether it will be due to Vinson, or other factors is a question I will leave up to others to decide.

[neitzelbaby12]

When Griff used the word vibrations, I nearly drove my car off the spillway

[MichaelMcNamara]

Jrue was not putting in the work with Vinson lol. Guy had way more stuff outside of basketball when he was with the Pels to worry about shooting 38% from 3. Ask anyone in the organization.

It's just funny that anytime anyone brings up Vinson you have to go the other way with it. But in this situation, no one even brought him up!

Yeah, I beat them to it. I know the rhythm of this board.
Somebody questions whether a guy can improve his shooting. Two or three people say Vinson will make him a good shooter. Rinse and repeat. I am just getting quick enough to get ahead of those takes now. Been on this board 10+ years. I always know the next take coming. It’s very predictable

[MichaelMcNamara]

When Griff used the word vibrations, I nearly drove my car off the spillway

LMAO

[DroopyDawg]

BTW, for any one you playing Griff Bingo, the following phrases hit on the Rusillo pod:

"Authentically himself"
"On a human level"
"You can feel their vibration. There is a frequency to them as people"
"Guttural presence"
"Be the full expression of himself"

You can collect your winnings at the box office

[PelicanFever]

Or…..balance. Literally everyone else says nothing but positive things about Vinson. But nobody ever shares the facts that don’t back up the “greatest shooting coach alive” narrative.

All I want is accuracy and balance. There is never a balanced convo around Vinson. He is responsible for every guy getting better. But when Ingram has a bad season….silence. When NAW regresses from college….silence. When Jrue and MANY others get better elsewhere…..silence

It’s hilarious to me

Does Fred Vinson spend more time with certain guys on their shooting? I don’t know the answer to this but I feel like we need in order to properly evaluate.

For example, is their a plan that Fred is to concentrate a larger portion of his time to one player or set of players?

[Eman5805]

BTW, for any one you playing Griff Bingo, the following phrases hit on the Rusillo pod:

"Authentically himself"
"On a human level"
"You can feel their vibration. There is a frequency to them as people"
"Guttural presence"
"Be the full expression of himself"

You can collect your winnings at the box office

IF I were playing MyCareer and the cutscene with the GM used the word "guttural presence" I'd roll my eyes for how lame and unrealistic the writing was. Like that year they had Spike Lee.

[heybigmatt]

Or?..balance. Literally everyone else says nothing but positive things about Vinson. But nobody ever shares the facts that don?t back up the ?greatest shooting coach alive? narrative.

All I want is accuracy and balance. There is never a balanced convo around Vinson. He is responsible for every guy getting better. But when Ingram has a bad season?.silence. When NAW regresses from college?.silence. When Jrue and MANY others get better elsewhere?..silence

It?s hilarious to me

I don't disagree with you that he probably has as many successes as failures, but you are assuming multiple things to justify failures, and we have more information from successes that are objective. You are assuming 1) the player who failed worked out consistently with Vincent throughout the seasons like the successes did, and 2) the failure had the same work ethic as the successes did.

I don't disagree that maybe those individuals have success with other shooting coaches but in terms of Lonzo, BI and Herb, we have objective data points and talking points from the players themselves about Vincent. We have no information about the failures. So I think its fair to believe he is a very good shooting coach.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I don't disagree with you that he probably has as many successes as failures, but you are assuming multiple things to justify failures, and we have more information from successes that are objective. You are assuming 1) the player who failed worked out consistently with Vincent throughout the seasons like the successes did, and 2) the failure had the same work ethic as the successes did.

I don't disagree that maybe those individuals have success with other shooting coaches but in terms of Lonzo, BI and Herb, we have objective data points and talking points from the players themselves about Vincent. We have no information about the failures. So I think its fair to believe he is a very good shooting coach.

But who else is that ever done with? Imagine only finding out about a coaches successes or a players. Failures....nobody knows. So, it never happened.

Its not Vinson fault and sure, he is good at his job. It is just the greatest job on earth -- when someone has success, they shout it from the rooftop that Vinson worked with him. Everyone else stinks, and nobody knows if he worked with him or not. That is awesome for him.

But I always say this....lets say he has these magical powers and can fix guys like most fans think he could. Why is he doing anything else? Why isnt he working with the highest usage, highest cost, highest value guys all the time? Heck, pay him 10 mil a year and make him work 100 hours a week only doing his magical thing, and then all these guys would be Steph Curry!

Logically, you can deduce he is good. Probably above average, maybe well above avg compared to others. But this " guaranteed shot fixer' label that has been attributed to him, I dont buy. Or, I should say, I wouldnt draft a guy assuming Vinson will necessarily help him more than any other shooting coach would

[Upper Decker]

But who else is that ever done with? Imagine only finding out about a coaches successes or a players. Failures....nobody knows. So, it never happened.

Its not Vinson fault and sure, he is good at his job. It is just the greatest job on earth -- when someone has success, they shout it from the rooftop that Vinson worked with him. Everyone else stinks, and nobody knows if he worked with him or not. That is awesome for him.

But I always say this....lets say he has these magical powers and can fix guys like most fans think he could. Why is he doing anything else? Why isnt he working with the highest usage, highest cost, highest value guys all the time? Heck, pay him 10 mil a year and make him work 100 hours a week only doing his magical thing, and then all these guys would be Steph Curry!

Logically, you can deduce he is good. Probably above average, maybe well above avg compared to others. But this " guaranteed shot fixer' label that has been attributed to him, I dont buy. Or, I should say, I wouldnt draft a guy assuming Vinson will necessarily help him more than any other shooting coach would

I value JJ Reddick's opinion on the matter. He spoke glowingly of Fred. I think he's a bit better informed than any of us.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I value JJ Reddick's opinion on the matter. He spoke glowingly of Fred. I think he's a bit better informed than any of us.

Everybody speaks glowingly of him. Ask yourself this.... how often do players speak ill of any behind the scenes guy still currently employed?

All these guys work hard, do their job, are good people for the most part. The shooting coach in Milwaukee I am sure is good, the one in Toronto, the one in Miami (do you know his name? Shouldnt you? Look at all their shooters that get developed and come out of nowhere!)

Again, I am not saying he is bad. But I dont think we can objectively say he is better than any other shooting coach none of us know. He just gets the most publicity because he helped "fix" two high profile ex-Lakers. But it is what it is. Just the lack of balance about the info on him, the narrative about him, etc... yes, it annoys me a little bit. But I have coped by having fun with it

[NMThreeMVP]

Everybody speaks glowingly of him. Ask yourself this.... how often do players speak ill of any behind the scenes guy still currently employed?

All these guys work hard, do their job, are good people for the most part. The shooting coach in Milwaukee I am sure is good, the one in Toronto, the one in Miami (do you know his name? Shouldnt you? Look at all their shooters that get developed and come out of nowhere!)

Again, I am not saying he is bad. But I dont think we can objectively say he is better than any other shooting coach none of us know. He just gets the most publicity because he helped "fix" two high profile ex-Lakers. But it is what it is. Just the lack of balance about the info on him, the narrative about him, etc... yes, it annoys me a little bit. But I have coped by having fun with it

A big dab of contrarianism. Massage in with plenty of conjecture.

Rinse.
Wash.
Repeat.

lol/

[MichaelMcNamara]

Fine, I will let the Vinson thing go. You all just live in your world where he is the greatest shooting coach alive, yet the team is constantly bottom third in 3pt shooting and middle or bottom third in FT shooting. All the successes are because of him. All the failures are because he just didnt have enough time in his busy day to work with that guy.

That sounds like the most likely truth. There is no fan bias or desire in that narrative. You would think the same if Vinson was a coach of a rival. He is the Golden God of shooting and thank god we have him because instead of 26th, we would be 30th every year!

[Sovereign]

Did anyone ever address BI's 3pt shot getting worse this year or no?

[Sovereign]

I value JJ Reddick's opinion on the matter. He spoke glowingly of Fred. I think he's a bit better informed than any of us.

Yall pick and choose when you want to listen to players because JJ was just written off by this fanbase as bitter when he said Griff can't be trusted.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Did anyone ever address BI's 3pt shot getting worse this year or no?

Probably because we rolled out a Pels team where Garret Temple, NAW, and Satoransky and a rookie Herb were often the guys on the court with BI. Entire team's defense were able to concentrate on BI. He probably didn't get too many open looks from 3.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Did anyone ever address BI's 3pt shot getting worse this year or no?

Of course not. When it is poor, it is a fluke/nobodies fault. When it is improved, Sir Vinson gets the credit!