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Haven’t heard one way or the other on him. My guess would be that the way he gets his offense doesn’t fit the team. Lots of post up’s, mid range iso, etc - and Willie really believes in the .5 second thing. Now, there is a little leeway for a superstar like Zion or BI when it comes to that, but not a Johnny Davis level guy
@mcnamara247
Originally Posted by Blattman
dont think it would happen but I love number 5. on almost any mock one could find a guy at 13 they would have considered at 8; and nothings better than cheap talent as has been said
besides the fact that we once blew a draft a draft with picks 12 and 15 (See 2006 Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons)
i still think it has better value than pick #8 alone
with all that said.... draft dyson daniels
dont think it would happen but I love number 5. on almost any mock one could find a guy at 13 they would have considered at 8; and nothings better than cheap talent as has been said
besides the fact that we once blew a draft a draft with picks 12 and 15 (See 2006 Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons)
i still think it has better value than pick #8 alone
I like the idea of Sharpe, but you can't deny that he could be a massive miss. I'd draft him, but I won't be terribly disappointed if the Pelicans passed on him or traded up for someone else.
The someone else, IMO, should be Ivey. If he somehow slips to 5 just go get him.
8, 41, next year's pick and Laker swap rights (top 4 protected), and the Bucks 2027 pick (lottery protected), should be enough to get the deal done without including any players. You can negotiate on protections if that becomes a hang up.
Ok the Mathurin's love makes a lot of sense then. It's interesting to see the front office fully embraces Willie's philosophy, I think it may be the first time I notice a willingness to adapt to the head coach.
I'll happily make a list but I'm a tiers man at my core:
1. Take Daniels
2. Trade up for Ivey
3. Trade up for Sharpe
4. Take Sochan- I dont think the Pels take him, but I'm starting to fall for Sochan. I'm BPA over fit so it depends who else is there but he's the perfect small ball 5 next to Zion and BI that I've wanted for years. The OG/Isaac type of guy.
5. Trade back with Thunder for Dieng- this opens up the MLE too, not a lot of minute to go around but the flexibility is nice
6. Trade back with Knicks for Dieng
7. Take Mathurin
8. Trade up for Murray
9. Trade back for Williams and Branham
10. Trade back for Griffin
I'm pro trading one, if not both, of the Lakers picks to get the guy we love this year. Strike while the iron is hot. I would love if Murray fell to us at 8 but I dont love that price for him.
4-8 are all very close for me. As a fan, I'm gonna talk myself into whoever they draft (I did it with Jax dammit, I'll do it again!) but 9 and 10 are the only ones I come out of draft night feeling bleh.
Last edited by neitzelbaby12; 06-06-2022 at 12:16 PM.
Welcome to be here
Those priorities seem to imply trading up for Keegan Murray, if possible.
I havnt liked the thought of Keegan Murray from the start. But he did do well at basically everything. Hard to project his position and impact cause nothing elite jumps out.
they compare him to otto porter and and micheal porter on nbadraft.net....... i dont like that. so i was trying to think of another player that could resemble his upside..... i couldnt...... but could he be jason tatum...ish?
I think Murray is probably the safest pick/best fit in the draft for the Pelicans. The question is how high is his ceiling and how much is he worth giving up to move up in the draft?
I think Murrays realistic ceiling is Danny Granger or Shereef Abdur Rahim is another comp I have been kicking around. Modern Shereef, of course. He would have shot the 3 ball
He doesn't have near the handles, playmaking or creation ability to be anything like Tatum. I thought of him more like a more athletic Marcus Morris. Good stretch big that can also bang inside, good defender, rebounder. Just an all around solid player.
I've watched a decent amount of Mathurin and either his mental processing defensively is incredibly slow, or the effort isn't there consistently. For every TCU game there's 3 Tennessee games. I do have some confidence that Willie can get the most out of him on that end though.
I'm team trade up, however, and it isn't particularly close. If you're DG, you've chased a Jaden Ivey style player since you arrived, for better or worse. Go get him. Side note on Ivey is that I heard some kind of weird stuff about his character early in the season but it was never corroborated and hasn't come up since. Wondering if anyone on here has heard something similar.
I agree that I'd go all in on Ivey. Push all the chips onto the table and get our guy. Ivey has superstar potential. I'd give up everything in our draft asset bag to get him. But Sacramento would have to be willing to deal #4 for that to happen, in all likelihood.
I'd rank it as of now:
1) Ivey
2) Daniels
3) Sharpe
4) Williams and Branham
5) Dieng and Beauchamp
6) Griffin
7) Mathurin
8) Dieng
9) Sochan
10) Murray
If you told me the Murray package was top 5 protected next season, I'd move it to 4. If it was top 10 protected, I'd move it to 2nd. Same goes for Sharpe. I don't think the upside is high enough with Murray to warrant an unprotected first next season, much less one that has two bites of the apple. I'm not necessarily Sharpe is worth that either, but I'm wavering there.
Ivey is the goal for me, and I have him third on my board behind Jabari and Chet. I think he has the highest potential in the class if you weight adjust for positional scarcity and importance.
I think Daniels shot is legit. I don't usually care about workout tapes, but he looks to have completely remade his shot from its original form at the beginning of the Ignite season. Looks smooth as hell, and we know he has touch and coordination so I think it translates. Would just be a seamless fit with the Pels big 3, Herb, Trey, etc.
I'm a huge Mark Williams guy. I don't really understand why he gets no top 10 love (not that I would pick him there). He can be flat out dominant defensively, seems to have an incredible motor, and would be a nice JV replacement one day while also providing value immediately. Then you take your shot on Branham as your wing for the fences guy who could be a high quality shot maker as well as a nice PnR partner with Williams. The defense is scary, but if he's your 6th man of the future, that's not as worrisome.
I rank Dieng 5th purely because I like the value in getting him at 12. I think there's a decent chance he doesn't make it there on draft night given the upside. Another seamless fit with your big 3. Plus you get to get off Graham. I actually like Beauchamp a lot as well, but I don't think he makes it to 34. If you had told me we were able to get Patrick Baldwin at 30, I think I would have this higher. Send him to Birmingam and try to make him a 3 point sniper version of Boris Diaw.
I'm higher on Griffin than the consensus among relative casuals, I think. I have just as many questions about Benny's defense as I do about Griffin, and I think he re-gains athleticism another year removed from his knee and ankle injuries. I don't see those as being long term issues. The defensive system at Duke was weird and bad and kind of made everyone look like they were bad defenders other than Mark Williams. Not giving him a total pass, but give me the guy who shot 45% from 3 at 11 and a first over the guy who shot 38% from 3 at 8.
For Mathurin, see my reasoning on Griffin.
In regards to the Dieng at 11 package, I'd just much prefer the Dieng at 12 package.
I have watched a fair amount of Sochan. I do not get it with Sochan. I'm going to catch some hate but I don't think the defense is good enough to justify using a lottery pick on a guy who is a very bad offensive player right now. When I watched him, I didn't see the intensity that I wanted to see from a guy who is kind of being lauded as like the next great NBA defender. He's pretty underwhelming on the defensive glass for a guy his size. The shot is bad, and the FT% doesn't give me confidence that it gets better. I'm intrigued by the ball handling, but people need to stop with the Ben Simmons comps. Ben Simmons was one of the best open floor passers in basketball when he was right. I think there's some group think going on here, and people are definitely enamored with the size. I also think, in a weird way, people see the hair and immediately think like oh this guys nasty he's a competitor, but I don't really see that in him. If you are a big Sochan person, please point me in the direction of his good defensive games because I'm open to changing my opinion, I just need to see the tape.
Pels have been doing a ton of research on Sharpe lately. They feel there is a REAL chance he could be there now. Didnt feel that way two weeks ago. As I said a few weeks ago, Sharpe is declining some interviews and workouts with bad franchises.
Sharpe, Daniels, or Mathurin. Would be surprised at this point if it were anyone else. Havent got much traction on trade up scenarios and the brass thinks there is a clear top 8 or 9 so someone would have to give up quite a bit to move up
So I don't think Sharpe goes top 5 at this point. From just a team building perspective, the Pacers would be foolish to pass on him at 6. The issue there, however, is Carlisle likely has no interest in waiting on Sharpe. I could say the same about Dame and Portland at 7. We know that all of those teams in the teens will be calling the Pacers and Blazers for trade up scenarios, but what would it take to entice those teams.
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see Dort moved as part of a package but idk if that would be enough.
I'd be ecstatic with Sharpe or Dieng, so I'm sure they'll go 6 and 7
If Sharpe is available at 7, OKC has a lot of ammo to entice the Blazers. Could something like 12, 30 and a future 1st be enough if Portland felt that one of Duren or Williams would be available at 12? Sharpe or Dieng are the type of prospects OKC could take a gamble on.
I don't think Portland would be interested in trading back in this draft. I'd assume they would want a pretty nice vet plus some draft capital in order to move. Same goes for Indy.
The Pels are somewhat lucky in that, in my opinion, 3 out of the 7 teams above them have legitimate pressure to make the playoffs next season.
Not sure whether Portland has pressure to make playoffs as they appear to be rebuilding around Dame. If OKC put someone like Dort (if OKC does not think they can keep him longterm) into the offer along with a couple of picks, it may be the perfect scenario for them.
Thanks for that update. Sharpe, Daniels, Mathurin -- I think we can all be excited about any of those 3, each bringing different strengths/improvement areas/ potential upside.
Last edited by Rheem654; 06-07-2022 at 12:29 PM.
Very interesting group and players that we would expect to go around our pick. Have to think the big 3 and Ivey are locks to go before us. Would think Murray as well. That leaves 2 to go before us, so one of the 3 has to be there. If they end up liking Sharpe, they should feel comfortable at 8.
I'd be ecstatic if Shaedon Sharpe ends up being our pick, so that's #1 on my list whether we have to trade up or not. At this point, we might not even have to trade up to get him; he might just fall in our lap at #8. We do not have a guy on our roster who can score like him. And his athleticism is off the charts; there is video of him breaking Michael Jordan's NBA record for highest vertical jump. And he is a long defender that can guard multiple positions, perfect for today's NBA uber-switch defenses. He has the potential to be the best player in this draft. That's what we need to be doing this year --- swinging for the fences.
His draft stock is reportedly dropping on many boards because of his "camp," and how they advised him to sit out the year instead of playing for Kentucky. But how bad can his camp be? After all, they're Canadians!
And to be clear, I would be really surprised if it were Sharpe. Partly because I would still be surprised if he is there and partly because I just dont think Griff pulls the trigger if he is. He is so scarred by 'camps' - from Lebron to Kyrie to Zion - that I just would bet on him passing unless something changes. Then again, the camp was part of why he had Kira over Maxey and look how that turned out. Just take the talent, man, and if you dont like the camp, the dude will have insane trade value. Also, what is the point of coaches and having all these locker room leaders if not to take a talent and help mold him into a professional?
The Maxey thing wasnt just Griff. Klutch basically controlled his destination from the jump when he wasn't going top 10. Guy fell all the way to 21 for a reason, and, honestly, that was a win for Klutch and Maxey because he may be able to strong arm Philly into a max at this point.
Your point stands though. Has there been a Sharpe/Nola visit or workout confirmed?
Sharpe is the biggest question mark in the draft.
It's not even close. I have a hard time imaging him contributing at all his first year.
That said we are the perfect location for him to come and slowly get caught up to speed.
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