Rank Thes Outcomes

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Yeah, the thought of a team with Herb & Sochan on the floor at the same time in something like an end-of-quarter scenario where the opposing team has the ball with 20 seconds on the clock is pretty appealing! Another scenario is a version of the Warrior's Death Lineup where Sochan is the small ball center.

I do think we're in a better situation than most teams to take a chance on Sochan, because unlike most lottery teams (or heck most teams period) we legit have three 20 plus scorers. So we don't necessarily need a player with a high offensive ceiling.

The reason that we might be in more need of a player like Sochan than most other teams is that our three 20 plus scorers are all defensive liabilities to a certain extent. So having a player like Sochan who's defensive game seems light years ahead of the other prospects in the draft would certainly fill a void. I mean we can't count on Herb guarding everyone on the opposing team. And he's so good at all the thankless, grunt work that he can immediately come in and play with the superstars without sacrificing his own game.

Now obviously the reason we might not want Sochan is he doesn't address one of our biggest needs which is reliable three point shooting. Personally though, if I were a gm I'd prefer to address that with the MLE than with the draft. Even guys who are good shooters in college may not necessarily find the same success in the pros.

[Rheem654]

I do think we're in a better situation than most teams to take a chance on Sochan, because unlike most lottery teams (or heck most teams period) we legit have three 20 plus scorers. So we don't necessarily need a player with a high offensive ceiling.

The reason that we might be in more need of a player like Sochan than most other teams is that our three 20 plus scorers are all defensive liabilities to a certain extent. So having a player like Sochan who's defensive game seems light years ahead of the other prospects in the draft would certainly fill a void. I mean we can't count on Herb guarding everyone on the opposing team. And he's so good at all the thankless, grunt work that he can immediately come in and play with the superstars without sacrificing his own game.

Now obviously the reason we might not want Sochan is he doesn't address one of our biggest needs which is reliable three point shooting. Personally though, if I were a gm I'd prefer to address that with the MLE than with the draft. Even guys who are good shooters in college may not necessarily find the same success in the pros.

Good, well-written point. In theory, Pels are one of the few teams who can absorb a low-offense, high-defense player.

The counterpoint: if his shooting/spacing stays bad, then look at Mytese Thybulle. They couldn't have him on the court for his good defense because his offense/shooting was so bad. He's worth the gamble, tho. If Daniels, Murray and Sharpe are gone at #8, then Sochan would be my choice. Griffin-Langdon may have it ranked completely differently, though.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Good, well-written point. In theory, Pels are one of the few teams who can absorb a low-offense, high-defense player.

The counterpoint: if his shooting/spacing stays bad, then look at Mytese Thybulle. They couldn't have him on the court for his good defense because his offense/shooting was so bad. He's worth the gamble, tho. If Daniels, Murray and Sharpe are gone at #8, then Sochan would be my choice. Griffin-Langdon may have it ranked completely differently, though.

Yea, he's certainly a risk. Of course most of the guys in the year's draft contain a certain amount of risk. I think his shot has potential though. I was watching him against West Virginia and within about five minutes, I saw him hit a pretty smooth looking three poointer, and a turn around fadeaway jumper in the lane that looked like something BI would have pulled out of his arsenal. But then I watched him go to the free throw line and nearly wedge the ball between the back, left side of the rim and the backboard.

[Eyquem]

I do think we're in a better situation than most teams to take a chance on Sochan, because unlike most lottery teams (or heck most teams period) we legit have three 20 plus scorers. So we don't necessarily need a player with a high offensive ceiling.

The reason that we might be in more need of a player like Sochan than most other teams is that our three 20 plus scorers are all defensive liabilities to a certain extent. So having a player like Sochan who's defensive game seems light years ahead of the other prospects in the draft would certainly fill a void. I mean we can't count on Herb guarding everyone on the opposing team. And he's so good at all the thankless, grunt work that he can immediately come in and play with the superstars without sacrificing his own game.

Now obviously the reason we might not want Sochan is he doesn't address one of our biggest needs which is reliable three point shooting. Personally though, if I were a gm I'd prefer to address that with the MLE than with the draft. Even guys who are good shooters in college may not necessarily find the same success in the pros.

I agree on the 3pt shooting need, but I think more minutes from Trey + more gravity created by a healthy Zion will go a long way towards helping that. Man, if Herb can get to 36% from three at 3 attempts per game, that would be fantastic.

[Eyquem]

Herb's improvement in FT% is certainly an encouraging sign:

Jr year at Alabama: 62.5%
Sr year at Alabama: 71.3%
Rookie year in NBA: 84%

[smcgull]

It seems when they draft BPA it works for them. The only thing with that is there are too many people with different opinions on who is best. They all can do things great but other things not so great.

[fullcourtpress]

I do think we're in a better situation than most teams to take a chance on Sochan, because unlike most lottery teams (or heck most teams period) we legit have three 20 plus scorers. So we don't necessarily need a player with a high offensive ceiling.

The reason that we might be in more need of a player like Sochan than most other teams is that our three 20 plus scorers are all defensive liabilities to a certain extent. So having a player like Sochan who's defensive game seems light years ahead of the other prospects in the draft would certainly fill a void. I mean we can't count on Herb guarding everyone on the opposing team. And he's so good at all the thankless, grunt work that he can immediately come in and play with the superstars without sacrificing his own game.

Now obviously the reason we might not want Sochan is he doesn't address one of our biggest needs which is reliable three point shooting. Personally though, if I were a gm I'd prefer to address that with the MLE than with the draft. Even guys who are good shooters in college may not necessarily find the same success in the pros.

question: what does Sochan offer that Tari Eason doesn't?

im not suggesting we take either of the two, i just havnt decided which of the two id prefer. whos a better fit and why

[Biasvasospasm]

question: what does Sochan offer that Tari Eason doesn't?

im not suggesting we take either of the two, i just havnt decided which of the two id prefer. whos a better fit and why

Despite similar roles, they are really different players. The big difference between the two is that despite being over 2 years younger, Sochan is much smarter and higher feel, with an understanding of how to play on both sides. He consistently makes reads and is in the right place defensively. He anticipates and rotates, but he won't make a rotation that he isn't supposed to make. He generates fewer steals and blocks, but gambles less and is more positionally solid. He fouls way less than Eason. He moves his feet better defensively and reaches less.

Offensively, Sochan is a much smarter and more willing passer who plays well out of short roll situations and handoffs; Eason is a black hole. His handle is tighter than Eason's IMO and he is less prone toward turnovers, both because he is a really good passer and Eason is not and because of the handle. Eason also has this quirk where he absolutely can't finish with his left hand, and so if forced to his left hand he will still try to finish with his right and the results are not good, resulting in frequent turnovers and blocked shots.

I think Eason has a better chance as a shooter, but it's dicey either way. Both guys will definitely take shots, which is a good sign. On short shots, neither guy has great touch but Eason's touch is worse in my opinion.

Positionally, they are both strong, big wing sized and probably project to play the same position (4, with the ability to switch onto guards at times and bang with larger guys at times).

Eason in college was mostly an iso player who attacked relentlessly as a ballhandler and generates a ton of foul shots, but was a poor passer. He leverages his strength advantage offensively as a driver, but I worry about how that advantage holds up in the NBA. Defensively, he was very impactful but high foul and makes a bunch of mistakes. Eason is a project and is going to drive his coaches crazy, and as an older player may never develop the requisite feel level to play in the NBA.

If you have a couple hours and enjoy this stuff as a hobby, I really like these cutups of shot attempts, assists, rebounds, turnovers, and defensive possessions on the season. Gives you a much better feel for the player than highlights or scouting report videos, but doesn't take nearly as long as watching full games. There are things you can only get from watching games, though, so not saying it's the end all be all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ti3FOhzsH8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2__9wBw_Ip0

[MichaelMcNamara]

And accordingly to people who have met both in person, the Sochan IQ is 10x higher. Eason has been said to be slow to process on both ends and not great when they watch film with him / discuss concepts

[JR SMITH]

1. Draft Daniels.
2. Draft Sochan/Trade down for 11 and DAL '23 1st, draft Dieng.
4. Trade down for 12, 30 and 34, draft Dieng, Kamagate and Beauchamp.
5. Trade down for 13 and 15, draft Williams and Branham.
6. Trade up for Sharpe.
7. Trade up for Ivey.
8. Trade down for Griffin.
9. Draft Mathurin.
10. Trade up for Murray.

[fullcourtpress]

Despite similar roles, they are really different players. The big difference between the two is that despite being over 2 years younger, Sochan is much smarter and higher feel, with an understanding of how to play on both sides. He consistently makes reads and is in the right place defensively. He anticipates and rotates, but he won't make a rotation that he isn't supposed to make. He generates fewer steals and blocks, but gambles less and is more positionally solid. He fouls way less than Eason. He moves his feet better defensively and reaches less.

Offensively, Sochan is a much smarter and more willing passer who plays well out of short roll situations and handoffs; Eason is a black hole. His handle is tighter than Eason's IMO and he is less prone toward turnovers, both because he is a really good passer and Eason is not and because of the handle. Eason also has this quirk where he absolutely can't finish with his left hand, and so if forced to his left hand he will still try to finish with his right and the results are not good, resulting in frequent turnovers and blocked shots.

I think Eason has a better chance as a shooter, but it's dicey either way. Both guys will definitely take shots, which is a good sign. On short shots, neither guy has great touch but Eason's touch is worse in my opinion.

Positionally, they are both strong, big wing sized and probably project to play the same position (4, with the ability to switch onto guards at times and bang with larger guys at times).

Eason in college was mostly an iso player who attacked relentlessly as a ballhandler and generates a ton of foul shots, but was a poor passer. He leverages his strength advantage offensively as a driver, but I worry about how that advantage holds up in the NBA. Defensively, he was very impactful but high foul and makes a bunch of mistakes. Eason is a project and is going to drive his coaches crazy, and as an older player may never develop the requisite feel level to play in the NBA.

If you have a couple hours and enjoy this stuff as a hobby, I really like these cutups of shot attempts, assists, rebounds, turnovers, and defensive possessions on the season. Gives you a much better feel for the player than highlights or scouting report videos, but doesn't take nearly as long as watching full games. There are things you can only get from watching games, though, so not saying it's the end all be all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ti3FOhzsH8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2__9wBw_Ip0

I'll tell ya what, No I don"t have a couple of hours; but that's okay cause someone who did gave me a damn thoughtful answer that precisely answered my question.

Due to them projecting into similar roles and and having several traits in common i was up in the air on it.

but what yal said really spoke to the coach in me

well done guys

[Samsonite...]

(1) Trade up for Ivey
(2) Trade up for Murray
(3) Take Daniels
(4) Trade up for Sharpe
(5) Take Mathurin
(6) Trade 8, 41, and 53 and Devonte Graham for 12, 30, and 34. Take Dieng, draft and stash Ismael Kamagate, draft Marjon Beauchamp
(7) Trade 8 for 11 and Mavs 2023 1st. Take Ousmane Dieng
(8) Take Sochan
(9) Trade 8, 41, and 51 for 13 and 15. Draft Mark Williams and Malaki Branham
(10) Trade 8 for 11 and Mavs 2023 1st. Take AJ Griffin

As things stand, it seems like the top 8 are Chet, Paolo, Smith, Ivey, Murray, Sharpe, Daniels, and Mathurin. I would prefer Sharpe, Daniels, Mathurin in that order. I would take any one of those guys and not trade back. But I do like Sochan, Dieng and Barnham, so I could see a scenario on moving back but my strong preference would be move up or take best available at 8.

[Blattman]

(1) Take Mathurin
(2) Take Daniels
(3) Trade up for Ivey
(4) Take Sochan
(5) Trade 8, 41, and 51 for 13 and 15. Draft Mark Williams and Malaki Branham
(6) Trade 8 for 11 and Mavs 2023 1st. Take Ousmane Dieng
(7) Trade 8, 41, and 53 and Devonte Graham for 12, 30, and 34. Take Dieng, draft and stash Ismael Kamagate, draft Marjon Beauchamp
(8) Trade up for Sharpe
(9) Trade up for Murray
(10) Trade 8 for 11 and Mavs 2023 1st. Take AJ Griffin

I don't like the idea of trading up unless it's for J.Smith, Chet or Ivey. I still like Mathurin, I give him the edge since I see more superstar potential in him (Ray Allen or Reggie Miller like) than Sochan and Daniels. I like the Hornets trade mostly because I have a feeling that Branham could be perfect replacement to CJ in few years. Not a huge believer in Dieng but I won't be mad and I think Mavs 2023 pick has more value than trading Graham with his own value at an all time low.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Sounds like 5 could be had if we were aggressive. Havent heard anything about Indy or Portland exploring trades. As for trade backs, Washington has been poking around and might want to jump the Spurs for a big. Same with Charlotte, who has a lot of youth, including Kai - who barely even played and will be like a rookie this year. Taking two more would be a bit of overkill and the Pels could probably get their two picks (13 and 15) for 8. But the Pels wouldnt want two rookies either. Also, very good chance Dieng is gone by 13

[MichaelMcNamara]

The other team that has been calling and poking around the top 10 is Toronto. Obviously, OG is the guy you want, but I dont know if they part with him just for the 8th pick. Would be curious how they feel about Jax. Graham, Jax, and 8 for OG is an interesting trade. No clue who you would bench to start games, but a CJ-BI-OG-Herb-Zion finishing 5 would be amongst the best in the league. My guess is that they are trying to give up FVV or Trent instead, but Masai is an interesting guy. Maybe he liked what he say from the team and Barnes in particular when OG was out half the year and loves a propect from this draft.

If Daniels is on the board, I just take him. But if its Mathurin or do that trade for OG, I think I might do the trade. Then, go get Oladipo, Payton, or Connaughton in FA. Team would be a legit contender and still very young, with room to go and more draft picks still on the way

[MichaelMcNamara]

To me, the fair trade with Pistons is

8, Jax, Temple, and next years pick with Lakers swap rights for 5 and taking on Olynyks contract

I would definitely do it for Ivey. I go back and forth on whether I would do it for Murray, mostly because I don’t know who will be there at 8. You tell me Daniels or Sharpe is there at 8, I wouldn’t do it. But if it’s Mathurin or move up to 5, I do the deal

[Rheem654]

To me, the fair trade with Pistons is

8, Jax, Temple, and next years pick with Lakers swap rights for 5 and taking on Olynyks contract

I would definitely do it for Ivey. I go back and forth on whether I would do it for Murray, mostly because I don’t know who will be there at 8. You tell me Daniels or Sharpe is there at 8, I wouldn’t do it. But if it’s Mathurin or move up to 5, I do the deal

I like that trade. Seems fair enough for DET, too. So basically only move up for Ivey, maybe Murray. What if you knew Daniels was gone at 6 or 7. Would you do this trade up to 5 and take Daniels? I would. Dyson seems the best available guy in our range, fits the team culture and roster identity, high IQ, still young with lots of potential and room to grow physically/mentally. I may be biased, though, because my first name is Daniel. So I could get a Daniels jersey, scratch of the final -s.

I do wonder Jax's trade value to other teams and GMs, especially how much those "off-court incidents" impact teams' willingness to bring him in, let alone give value for him. But in a trade like this, kind of perfect for both sides. Griff can say it was a difficult decision to let such a young potential, good-energy player go, but it was needed to get this special player at #5, for the betterment of the franchise. But really, he gets out of the difficult extension/RFA distraction with a questionable-maturity player, while saving face for not dumping Hayes (Griff's high lotto-pick) for perceived low-value. Almost like a Hayes salary dump "sweetner" hidden behind the real value in the 2023 pick. Meanwhile, Pistons get a 1 year flyer on Hayes, if he pops they can re-sign, or easily trade/not re-sign him if it doesn't work.

[Rheem654]

The other team that has been calling and poking around the top 10 is Toronto. Obviously, OG is the guy you want, but I dont know if they part with him just for the 8th pick. Would be curious how they feel about Jax. Graham, Jax, and 8 for OG is an interesting trade. No clue who you would bench to start games, but a CJ-BI-OG-Herb-Zion finishing 5 would be amongst the best in the league. My guess is that they are trying to give up FVV or Trent instead, but Masai is an interesting guy. Maybe he liked what he say from the team and Barnes in particular when OG was out half the year and loves a propect from this draft.

If Daniels is on the board, I just take him. But if its Mathurin or do that trade for OG, I think I might do the trade. Then, go get Oladipo, Payton, or Connaughton in FA. Team would be a legit contender and still very young, with room to go and more draft picks still on the way

OG would definitely be a dream addition, on-court play-wise. But if he really is available, I'm sure the Blazers or even Pacers would beat our offer with their higher pick (better chance at Daniels) and cap room to not send back any bad contracts to the Raptors. FVV would've been a perfect fit before adding CJ.

Also, I see OG's signed with Klutch Sports, our arch-nemesis. Does Griff dare let the Klutch fox back in the Pel henhouse? Then next summer, Klutch demands a max or nothin', and they want their client OG to get 10 more self-creation touches per game, to help his highlights for his new shoe deal. Ok probably an exaggeration, but the klutch element has to factor in somewhat.

[rocketfox]

The other team that has been calling and poking around the top 10 is Toronto. Obviously, OG is the guy you want, but I dont know if they part with him just for the 8th pick. Would be curious how they feel about Jax. Graham, Jax, and 8 for OG is an interesting trade. No clue who you would bench to start games, but a CJ-BI-OG-Herb-Zion finishing 5 would be amongst the best in the league. My guess is that they are trying to give up FVV or Trent instead, but Masai is an interesting guy. Maybe he liked what he say from the team and Barnes in particular when OG was out half the year and loves a propect from this draft.

If Daniels is on the board, I just take him. But if its Mathurin or do that trade for OG, I think I might do the trade. Then, go get Oladipo, Payton, or Connaughton in FA. Team would be a legit contender and still very young, with room to go and more draft picks still on the way

Considering we're trying to contend rn I probably would just give up 8 for OG.

The other rookies are cheaper, but who knows if they'll be as good as OG really.

Toronto has had a nice streak with drafting, I wonder who they like in the top 10.

[JR SMITH]

If Daniels, Dieng, Sochan and Sharpe are gone by 8, I trade back for the DAL '23 1st or for 13 and 15. I'd want to draft one or two of Davis, Branham, Agbagi, Eason, Liddell or LaRavia.

[pelicanchamp]

I?d try to move up for Ivey. I think he is going to be a star. Give SAC 8th pick, Hayes and a future 1st round pick.

If that doesn?t work out I would trade up for Daniels. Give Detroit the 8th pick, Hayes and a lottery protected 2023 1st round pick.

If that doesn?t work then I stay at 8 and draft Sochan or Griffin. Griffin could be a liability on defense but his shooting is so elite. His BBIQ is high and his body type will help him defend in certain situations. Sochan is a beast on defense and I can see him Herb, and Alvarado being a problem. If he can develop a 3 point shot he might be worth drafting at 8.

Another possibility is to trade down and draft Mark Williams. We need interior defense and looks like he can be a potential steal. I also like Johnny Davis or Nikola Jovic. Jovic is intriguing. He?s the same height as Durant and he has above average playmaking and looks like a decent shooter.

Our 3 point shooting was very bad last season. We have to address that. Griffin will put a lot of pressure on teams with his elite shooting. The issue with his defense is a difficult problem to solve because players usually don?t get way better on defense. But players do have a chance to develop better shooting.

Getting an elite shooter is hard to come by. Playing with defenders like Herb, Larry Nance, Alvarado could work for Griffin as long as he is coached really well. His Lateral quickness is very concerning.

Another question the GM might consider is can we improve our shooting with the players we already have? If we can?t make significant improvements there then you should draft a shooter. If you think we can improve our shooting especially with point Zion collapsing defenses then we should draft Sochan. Getting Dyson would be overall the best fit for our team. Have him come off the bench to run point or have Jose and point and Dyson at SG. His size and quickness and play making is huge. If he can shoot 3s at 35% he will be an awesome backup for Herb or CJ.

Also, we can?t forget Kira. I still think he could be a solid piece especially if we trade Graham.

Whatever we do we will probably get a valuable player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blattman]

The other team that has been calling and poking around the top 10 is Toronto. Obviously, OG is the guy you want, but I dont know if they part with him just for the 8th pick. Would be curious how they feel about Jax. Graham, Jax, and 8 for OG is an interesting trade. No clue who you would bench to start games, but a CJ-BI-OG-Herb-Zion finishing 5 would be amongst the best in the league. My guess is that they are trying to give up FVV or Trent instead, but Masai is an interesting guy. Maybe he liked what he say from the team and Barnes in particular when OG was out half the year and loves a propect from this draft.

If Daniels is on the board, I just take him. But if its Mathurin or do that trade for OG, I think I might do the trade. Then, go get Oladipo, Payton, or Connaughton in FA. Team would be a legit contender and still very young, with room to go and more draft picks still on the way

With his injury history, OG wouldn't be my primary trade target. He played only 91 regular season game in the last two years and never played more than 70 games in one season since his playing time increased to 30mpg (and if I remember well he didn't play the second part of his last college year due to a knee injury).

[Blattman]

From MM's intel, it seems the front office is prioritizing 3pt shooting in this draft. So if Mathurin is available I would be very surprised to see them trade to move up or down.

For Griffin given his physical profile and his reputation before going into Duke they may convince themselves of their ability to redeem his defense. M'y issue is more about his unorthodox shooting form which doesn't seem reliable and for a rookie with his shooting as his best skill it worries me a lot.

I truly hope one of the team picking before the pels will fall in love in one of the guy I don't want (i.e. Duren or Griffin) to keep all possibilities open. And when Sacramento is slotted at the 4th pick everything is on the table.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I wouldnt say shooting is #1. I would say their priorities go:

1. Character (not in a corny way, but in the way the Spurs say "we want guys who are over themselves". Pels want good, mature guys who value winning over self
2. Versatility (on both sides. Dont want one dimensional guys on offense or one position defenders on D)
3. Shooting (very aware that they need to improve here)
4. Rim protection

[Blattman]

I wouldnt say shooting is #1. I would say their priorities go:

1. Character (not in a corny way, but in the way the Spurs say "we want guys who are over themselves". Pels want good, mature guys who value winning over self
2. Versatility (on both sides. Dont want one dimensional guys on offense or one position defenders on D)
3. Shooting (very aware that they need to improve here)
4. Rim protection

Interesting. Do you have any info why they don't like Davis then ? He seems to me to be a versatile high character type of player.