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Thread: Rank Thes Outcomes

  1. #26
    8 and next years pick for Ivey, easy.

  2. #27
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Would be fine with a trade up if there was a top 4 protection on the pick.

  3. #28
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    8 and next years pick for Ivey, easy.
    I'd do it. Ivey's ceiling is ridiculously high as well. Would make our offense potentially the most dynamic in the league.

  4. #29
    Ivey
    Sharpe
    Murray
    Mathurin or Daniels

    the rest

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RUFshreve View Post
    I'd do it. Ivey's ceiling is ridiculously high as well. Would make our offense potentially the most dynamic in the league.
    This, I think he can be Donovan Mitchell with better defense, which is scary to think about.
    Last edited by HornetGuru; 05-29-2022 at 08:46 AM.

  6. #31
    But would you want to add Donovan to CJ, BI, Zion, and Jonas? There is one ball

    You take Ivey and it is hard for me to see how he gets the reps to develop the traits that will make him a game changer in this league. I would take him but only because I don’t think Zion or CJ would be here when he hits his prime. But does he get enough reps in those few years where they are to be that guy when they are gone? I try to imagine Donovan or Ja going to a team where they would have been the 4th option for their first few years and am curious how that would have impacted their ceiling
    @mcnamara247

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    But would you want to add Donovan to CJ, BI, Zion, and Jonas? There is one ball

    You take Ivey and it is hard for me to see how he gets the reps to develop the traits that will make him a game changer in this league. I would take him but only because I don’t think Zion or CJ would be here when he hits his prime. But does he get enough reps in those few years where they are to be that guy when they are gone? I try to imagine Donovan or Ja going to a team where they would have been the 4th option for their first few years and am curious how that would have impacted their ceiling
    Isn't this critique of Ivey using fit as a reason to eliminate him?

  8. #33
    I wouldn’t be eliminating him. And it’s not fit as much as looking at his potential for growth. How does he learn to be a high usage guy in the NBA with those guys on his teams? You have to do and fail to learn and grow, but how does he get those opportunities in these first few years? That would be my concern.

    All guys ceilings are dependent on their environment IMO. Not like Ivey will be the exact same player 5 years from now regardless of which of the 30 teams he goes to. And he doesn’t really impact the game without the ball, so In order to reach his best ceiling, he needs a lot of reps with the ball in his hand. I would be fine drafting him and maybe he is like Baron Davis year 1, but I know that by year 2 or 3 I need to get at least one of these high usage guys off the roster so he can start getting reps to maximize his ceiling

  9. #34
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Isn't this critique of Ivey using fit as a reason to eliminate him?
    well played sir

  10. #35
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    But would you want to add Donovan to CJ, BI, Zion, and Jonas? There is one ball

    You take Ivey and it is hard for me to see how he gets the reps to develop the traits that will make him a game changer in this league. I would take him but only because I don?t think Zion or CJ would be here when he hits his prime. But does he get enough reps in those few years where they are to be that guy when they are gone? I try to imagine Donovan or Ja going to a team where they would have been the 4th option for their first few years and am curious how that would have impacted their ceiling
    I'm curious why you are still of the opinion that Zion won't be here in a few years?

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by RUFshreve View Post
    I'm curious why you are still of the opinion that Zion won't be here in a few years?
    I always will bet on history Norms over outliers.

    You look at the history of times there was contention between player and organization in the first 3 years and it is very rare that it turns around and the guy is there long term. Things get better, sure, but then eventually something happens and that built up contention explodes.

    It would take like 5 big things to go wrong for Ja to ask out or Memphis to be tired of him. That number is 1, maybe 2, for Zion and the franchise. It’s like a cat with 9 lives. I will bet on the one who hasn’t used any over the one who as already used 6, with regard to how much longer they will survive.

    Just a numbers game but of course outliers happen. I just don’t bet on them

  12. #37
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Given CJs age and contract, I would have no problem taking Ivey.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I wouldn’t be eliminating him. And it’s not fit as much as looking at his potential for growth. How does he learn to be a high usage guy in the NBA with those guys on his teams? You have to do and fail to learn and grow, but how does he get those opportunities in these first few years? That would be my concern.

    All guys ceilings are dependent on their environment IMO. Not like Ivey will be the exact same player 5 years from now regardless of which of the 30 teams he goes to. And he doesn’t really impact the game without the ball, so In order to reach his best ceiling, he needs a lot of reps with the ball in his hand. I would be fine drafting him and maybe he is like Baron Davis year 1, but I know that by year 2 or 3 I need to get at least one of these high usage guys off the roster so he can start getting reps to maximize his ceiling
    With our injury history I kinda feel like he would get a lot of run at some point.

    He'd need a year in g-league early then heavy bench minutes. (Maybe even a luxury to not have to play CJ a full minutes load as he ages) before he takes on huge-replacement minutes, but I can kind of see it happening.

    One of our trio probably isn't staying healthy all season long for next few years, even though it'd be nice if they did.

  14. #39
    The Franchise
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    What if we kept 8 and traded for 4. Find who the kings want and go get him. Trade next year first, lakers protected first in 24/25, and the Bucks pick we have left. Draft Sharpe at 4 then at 8 draft whomever falls of Maturin or Daniels. Let them play it out to see who gets playing time. We’d also be 2-3 deep at SG and SF. CJ could run point sometimes if we wanted to go big.

    Sexton(my wish), Kira, Jose
    CJ, Sharpe, and Daniel’s
    BI, Trey, Naji
    Zion, Herb
    JV, Nance, Billy

    Sexton for a couple seconds and Graham in a sign and trade. Graham moves behind Garland and they get something in picks and I’d guess an exception of some value. Hayes and Temple would be moved for player Kings want.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Thats how we will always feel before the draft. 2-3 years from now, we will always wish we traded a mere first to get to that range and draft X player.
    Understandable... but I think Sochan might be that X player, and it looks like he'll be available at 8.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyquem View Post
    Understandable... but I think Sochan might be that X player, and it looks like he'll be available at 8.
    Its possible. Suns waited to 13, got Booker. Heat and Jazz got Bam and Mitchell at 13 and 14. All things are possible, but earlier today I listed the guys who are still on their current team from 2011-2017 drafts, from within the top 10. 70 guys. 9 remain on their current team. None of them were taken 8, 9, or 10. Six of the 9 were top 5 picks. Two were number 6, one was number 7 (Jamal Murray)

    It is POSSIBLE to get a very good long term piece anywhere in the draft. It is far more PROBABLY to get them in the top 5 or 6 than anywhere else

  17. #42
    I don't know much about the any of the potential players, but if Sharpe, Ivey, or Murray can reach superstardom in 4-8 years, that is all that matters. You have to push your chips in and try to acquire that talent. Especially given our spectacular position of having depth, and not having a need to progress these guys in less than ideal situations. That being said,

    1. Trade up for best of those 3.
    2. Stay at 8 and draft the guy with the highest potential ceiling, regardless of "fit" or "position".
    3. Trade down for whichever guy that has the highest potential ceiling.

    Gotta continue think about this team 5-10 years down the road, along with progressing the current team.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by BasedPelican View Post
    I don't know much about the any of the potential players, but if Sharpe, Ivey, or Murray can reach superstardom in 4-8 years, that is all that matters. You have to push your chips in and try to acquire that talent. Especially given our spectacular position of having depth, and not having a need to progress these guys in less than ideal situations. That being said,

    1. Trade up for best of those 3.
    2. Stay at 8 and draft the guy with the highest potential ceiling, regardless of "fit" or "position".
    3. Trade down for whichever guy that has the highest potential ceiling.

    Gotta continue think about this team 5-10 years down the road, along with progressing the current team.
    Yea we have a few more weeks to speculate, and hopefully more rumors stir up after the Finals, leading up to the draft. But it's good to know we're in a position to add one of the following players: Mathurin, Daniels, Sochan, or less likely: Murray, Ivey, Sharpe. Of course, a trade up, down, sideways, or out of the draft could happen and completely change the player range, tho.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyquem View Post
    Understandable... but I think Sochan might be that X player, and it looks like he'll be available at 8.
    The more I watch Sochan the more I like Sochan. The guy is extremely active, and his defense is much more mature than a freshman has any right to be. He’s also extremely active on offense, making cuts, picks and passes at a pretty high level. His shot is a work in progress, but there are times when it looks ok, and he certainly isn’t afraid to shoot it. (There were a couple of free throw misses though that were pretty horrific).

    I think he’s the one player that could immediately come in and contribute. It will be interesting to see if both he and Mathurin are available which one the Pels go with. They both fit needs but in a lot of ways they are almost polar opposites in what they excel at and what their deficiencies are.
    Last edited by Freyfamilyreuni; 05-30-2022 at 06:01 PM.

  20. #45
    ..in regards to ivey developing

    Im guessing Kahwi Leonard was an afterthought on the Spurs when he came into the league (was like 9th in scoring on the squad)

    ideally we could have a culture similar to theirs

  21. #46
    As stupid as it sounds, it is much easier to do that with a 15th pick vs a 4th. Shouldnt be that way, but it is.

    Hard to remember many top draft picks who came to a successful team who already had 3 or 4 really high level players. Obviously Darko to Detroit. Would have been interesting to see how it would have played out if they picked Carmelo. Baron Davis to the Hornets was interesting. They actually just missed the playoffs the previous year and should have been picking 13th but moved all the way up to 3. Baron came off the bench behind Wesley and Eddie Jones. He only scored 6 points per game that rookie year. But then that summer they moved Jones to open up a starting spot for Baron. Brought in an old Hersey Hawkins to mentor him. By year 4, Mashburn gets vertigo and its Baron's squad.

    Obviously you got young Tatum coming to a team with Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, and Smart. But Hayward goes down almost immediately. Just not many examples of a top 5 pick going to a really good team with some really good top end players, for obvious reasons. Warriors just had it with Kuminga. He got 17 mpg. A little under 7 FGA a game. But not a guard or primary creator. I still think Baron Davis would be the closest example. Turned out well, but actually it was because the team around him kept getting worse. The best record he ever had with the Hornets was in his rookie year, when he barely played. Would have been interesting to see how Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball's career would play out different if they get drafted by Golden State. Do they have the success they are having now? Does Jordan Poole?

  22. #47
    Mac, do you worry about Sharpe lack of first step explosiveness?
    CAW CAW!!!

    -Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-

  23. #48
    I dont worry about anything when it comes to a silly game with a ball. But yes, Sharpe is imperfect. His future is unknown and betting on him would be a gamble, as it is with almost every 19 year old. When you focus on what one can't do yet, it is easy to start having doubts. But if his shot becomes what I think it can be, and defenders have to play up on him, close on him hard, etc, that in itself helps his first step and once he gets by someone, the amazing athleticism will help him finish

    All that said, it is still more likely that he doesnt become great than he does. And that goes for every prospect in this draft. The raw numbers say that only 1, maybe 2, of the guys in the top 10 become All Stars/All-NBA and actually stay with the team who drafts them. Easier to bet against all these guys and be proven right than bet on them.

  24. #49
    What's your thoughts on Mark Williams?

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni View Post
    The more I watch Sochan the more I like Sochan. The guy is extremely active, and his defense is much more mature than a freshman has any right to be. He’s also extremely active on offense, making cuts, picks and passes at a pretty high level. His shot is a work in progress, but there are times when it looks ok, and he certainly isn’t afraid to shoot it. (There were a couple of free throw misses though that were pretty horrific).

    I think he’s the one player that could immediately come in and contribute. It will be interesting to see if both he and Mathurin are available which one the Pels go with. They both fit needs but in a lot of ways they are almost polar opposites in what they excel at and what their deficiencies are.

    Yeah, the thought of a team with Herb & Sochan on the floor at the same time in something like an end-of-quarter scenario where the opposing team has the ball with 20 seconds on the clock is pretty appealing! Another scenario is a version of the Warrior's Death Lineup where Sochan is the small ball center.

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