Rank Thes Outcomes

[MichaelMcNamara]

Probably because we rolled out a Pels team where Garret Temple, NAW, and Satoransky and a rookie Herb were often the guys on the court with BI. Entire team's defense were able to concentrate on BI. He probably didn't get too many open looks from 3.

And if the objective data said this was false, what would you say?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Yall pick and choose when you want to listen to players because JJ was just written off by this fanbase as bitter when he said Griff can't be trusted.

Positive = Person has credibility

Negative = They are a hater, a troll, a hack, etc.

[PELICANSFAN]

Positive = Person has credibility

Negative = They are a hater, a troll, a hack, etc.

But it almost seems personal with you regarding Vinson.

[MichaelMcNamara]

But it almost seems personal with you regarding Vinson.

It probably does because I have to negate what I see to be the misinformation so much. Literally nobody else even questions this rediculous narrative or throws out any data to the contrary.

But if it were flipped and all the guy got was hate, I would be throwing out examples of BI, Lonzo, Tyreke and others. I have no emotion. No bias. My passion is for sound and valid arguments, fair debate, etc. So, yes, when 100 people all are on one side of a debate and nobody is on the other and I have to argue for the equivalent of the 100 that should be there, presenting points, it comes across as personal or even passionate. But honestly, I dont really care for anything aside from showing all truths. Not just one side

The objective truth is that while Vinson has been here, some guys have had outlier improvements from 3 and the FT line. Many guys have also stayed steady or regressed. Several others have had outlier improvements after leaving the Pels (Jrue, Kenrich, Randle's first season, etc)

We hear about the first of those 3 often. The other two are never mentioned, and if they are, he is absolved. Just very, very odd.

[DroopyDawg]

For every successful Lonzo Ball there are 2 or 3 failures. The numbers don't lie... We can definitely give Vinson credit for the guys whose shooting has gotten better (Herb Jones for example) but team's shooting percentage and ranking can't be ignored.

Vinson is a good shooting coach but both he and the players can get a whole lot better. I think with a full season of CJ that should raise the team's percentage.

[MichaelMcNamara]

For every successful Lonzo Ball there are 2 or 3 failures. The numbers don't lie... We can definitely give Vinson credit for the guys whose shooting has gotten better (Herb Jones for example) but team's shooting percentage and ranking can't be ignored.

Vinson is a good shooting coach but both he and the players can get a whole lot better. I think with a full season of CJ that should raise the team's percentage.

And again, the only place this really applies is when people argue for FA acquisitions or draft picks whose weakness is shooting and assuming that will be auto fixed because of Vinson. I think it is no more likely to be fixed here than the other 29 teams.

[DroopyDawg]

It would be a fun project to look at the top 3 point shooting teams (say the top 5), then look at their rosters to see which players (once the team acquired the player) was a "shooter", and the ones that developed into a shooter.

I'm willing to wager the teams at the top had established shooters when they arrived.

[MichaelMcNamara]

It would be a fun project to look at the top 3 point shooting teams (say the top 5), then look at their rosters to see which players (once the team acquired the player) was a "shooter", and the ones that developed into a shooter.

I'm willing to wager the teams at the top had established shooters when they arrived.

I started to do a big article on this years ago, way back when the Vinson stuff started to annoy me. Long story short, the variance is high amongst players just to begin with. Guys go up and down with huge swings if they stay on teams, leave teams. Get more open shots, get less. There is no way to even set a real baseline to begin to see what variables, if any, really effect improvement or regression.

Its all just different levels of randomness. Personally, my conclusion is that the best thing a shooting coach can provide is confidence. You go to a shoot around and the worst FT shooter makes 18 out of 20. Guys like Dwight Howard are draining 3's. Over and over. A shooting coach is Cheech Martin from Tin Cup. Move the change over to your other pocket. Boom, you are fixed!

Obviously, it is more than that, but the biggest thing to improve a guys percentage is confidence IMO

[neitzelbaby12]

I feel like he's a really good shooting coach, he is compensated as such but I really dont know. If he is a top 10 shooting coach, I think there is something to that. Gotta take your competitive advantages where you have them. It shouldnt mean we should draft whoever and he can fix their shot, but I like the FO having confidence in his work.
Miracle worker? No.
Really good shooting coach? Seems to be, but of course us fans cant and dont know.

Agree with MM that he gets most of his recognition from fixing 2 ex-Lakers guys shots. But also it has seemed a little personal/fixation over the past year-ish. We probably shouldn't talk about an assistant as much as we talk about him tbh

[MichaelMcNamara]

I can honestly say, with all my heart, I have zero issues with Vinson. My issues is with YOU GUYS. lol

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Or?..balance. Literally everyone else says nothing but positive things about Vinson. But nobody ever shares the facts that don?t back up the ?greatest shooting coach alive? narrative.

All I want is accuracy and balance. There is never a balanced convo around Vinson. He is responsible for every guy getting better. But when Ingram has a bad season?.silence. When NAW regresses from college?.silence. When Jrue and MANY others get better elsewhere?..silence

It?s hilarious to me

Maybe Vinson is a good to great shooting coach which identifies players shooting hitches and finds ways to maximise their potential.

Once he has worked with the player and ingrained those good habits it's up to the player to continue with those learnings.

Maybe some just fall back into bad habits?

Heck if he was truly a shooting GOD then he's NBA career would have been more impressive.

[The Dud]

For every successful Lonzo Ball there are 2 or 3 failures. The numbers don't lie... We can definitely give Vinson credit for the guys whose shooting has gotten better (Herb Jones for example) but team's shooting percentage and ranking can't be ignored.

Vinson is a good shooting coach but both he and the players can get a whole lot better. I think with a full season of CJ that should raise the team's percentage.

Pels, overall, are gonna be a MUCH improved 3-pt shooting team next year and it will have very little to do with Vinson. Maybe one or two individuals will improve thanks to Vinson but several other factors will be the main reason for the substantial overall improvement by the Pels. No knock against Vinson...I'm sure he is a fine shooting guru, especially for severely damaged shooters.

[Upper Decker]

Yall pick and choose when you want to listen to players because JJ was just written off by this fanbase as bitter when he said Griff can't be trusted.

I've always hated JJ as a person. But he knows how to shoot. Gotta give him that. Pick and choose? Sure. I'm not gonna write him off as a worthless human. That would be stupid.

[Upper Decker]

Did anyone ever address BI's 3pt shot getting worse this year or no?

Maybe BI had a down year shooting because HE NEEDED FINGER SURGERY!!! Not Vinson's fault!!!

https://twitter.com/PelicansNBA/stat...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[AusPel]

You don?t know the half of it

Big week next week

[Saints63213]

them, so my ranking would be:
1. Trade up for Ivey
2. Trade up for Sharpe
3. Draft Mathurin
4. Draft Daniels
5. Trade down to 12 for Dieng and others
6. Trade down with Charlotte for Williams and Branham
7. Trade up for Murray
8. Trade down to 11 for Dieng
9. Draft Sochan
10. Trade down for Griffin

[hornetsrebirth]

Yall pick and choose when you want to listen to players because JJ was just written off by this fanbase as bitter when he said Griff can't be trusted.

That was a ***** move if I ever saw one. Dude came to New Orleans only because we gave him more money than anyone else, its not like he did us any favors. Ok, that's totally fine. Then he proceeds to have the worst season of his playing career, and gets mad at us because the team he wants to go to has no interest in trading for him. Said that we "owed" him something because he had been in the league for so long, even though he had only been with this franchise for 1 year. Super entitled diva BS.

[RJinMandeville]

My choices:

1. Trade up for Ivey.
2. Pick Daniels at 8.
3. Pick Mathurin at 8.
4. Pick Sharpe at 8.

The question is whether Sharpe fits the team culture that the Pelicans have been trying to build.

[coreylaron]

My choices:

1. Trade up for Ivey.
2. Pick Daniels at 8.
3. Pick Mathurin at 8.
4. Pick Sharpe at 8.

The question is whether Sharpe fits the team culture that the Pelicans have been trying to build.

One could argue that the culture is built, and now we should be able to evangelize players when they get here. If they have the wingspan and vertical leap and shot stroke lol