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Thread: 2022 NBA Draft Lottery

  1. #1201
    About 36 hours before, sounds like....

    1. If Daniels is there, we take him
    2. If its Mathurin, probably take him. Trade back would be possible, not likely
    3. If its Sharpe, still sounds like its 50/50. There are some in the room who want to take the swing, others who would rather not.

    Dieng is still loved, Sochan liked strongly. Some want to just pull the trigger on 8, even if it appears like a "reach" -- believe history will say differently when its all said and done.

    All that said, I think it comes down to what I have been saying for weeks - Mathurin or Daniels, whoever is left is the Pels pick.
    @mcnamara247

  2. #1202
    It’s tough for me to see Mathurin and Daniels as equals with Dyson’s all around game and IQ. You could argue that Mathurin has an elite skill coupled with great athleticism I guess. I can be sold on him. If it was up to me, it would be moreso 1. Daniels 2. Dieng 3. Mathurin at 8. Assuming Sharpe is a lock for top 7.

  3. #1203
    Since I found out two months or so ago that Dieng was an option, I have been trying to get there with him. I see some stuff, but I will admit that my gut says he wont be worth the pick. Easy to talk yourself into him if you want, as there are tons of flashes. But I just dont think he gets there consistently. I would take Mathurin and even Sochan over him. But the Pels have been enamored for a while. He is getting lotto buzz, and even top 10 buzz, now. But when I first posted that, he was consistently mocked in the 20s. Hasn't played a game since then, and yet he is now being heavily considered at 8.

    I just cant get there, but I know they have talked to the kid and people around him a ton. They have way more background than I do. I just do see 'IT' on the court.

  4. #1204
    Quote Originally Posted by coreylaron View Post
    It’s tough for me to see Mathurin and Daniels as equals with Dyson’s all around game and IQ. You could argue that Mathurin has an elite skill coupled with great athleticism I guess. I can be sold on him. If it was up to me, it would be moreso 1. Daniels 2. Dieng 3. Mathurin at 8. Assuming Sharpe is a lock for top 7.
    They're very different players in some respects, which makes viewing them on an even footing more about preference than actual default ability.

    Of the two, I prefer Daniels - 6'7, 6'11 wingspan, very good passer, solid touch on his floaters makes me optimistic his horrendous FT abilities can be ironed out, and a very good defender. Mathurin is definitely the superior shooter and scorer in general, but I don't think his ancillary skills are as high a level, so he may take longer to fit into an NBA roleplayer position - which is going to happen, given that neither Mathurin nor Daniels are likely to be real #1 or #2 guys on a functional team.

    I'd prefer Sochan over Dieng, as well - I like Dieng but his feel as an offensive player seems a touch suspect to me and I don't think he's nearly as strong or explosive and doesn't get great angles with the ball in his hands. Sochan probably isn't the ball-handler prospect Dieng is, but he's a far superior defender, I think he's a stronger frame and he's an excellent secondary passer.
    Basketball.

  5. #1205
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Since I found out two months or so ago that Dieng was an option, I have been trying to get there with him. I see some stuff, but I will admit that my gut says he wont be worth the pick. Easy to talk yourself into him if you want, as there are tons of flashes. But I just dont think he gets there consistently. I would take Mathurin and even Sochan over him. But the Pels have been enamored for a while. He is getting lotto buzz, and even top 10 buzz, now. But when I first posted that, he was consistently mocked in the 20s. Hasn't played a game since then, and yet he is now being heavily considered at 8.

    I just cant get there, but I know they have talked to the kid and people around him a ton. They have way more background than I do. I just do see 'IT' on the court.
    I agree. I had Dieng in my sig for most of the year and that's because I like him, and he wasn't getting much mainstream attention at the time. But every year there's a handful of guys who rocket up draft boards fairly late in the season and often don't pan out, and I think Dieng is getting a bit too much of that hype. I'd love him at #15, for example, but at #8 there are options that I just believe in way more.

  6. #1206
    I can see that. He don’t really give off biggest nuts on the court type energy

  7. #1207
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    They're very different players in some respects, which makes viewing them on an even footing more about preference than actual default ability.

    Of the two, I prefer Daniels - 6'7, 6'11 wingspan, very good passer, solid touch on his floaters makes me optimistic his horrendous FT abilities can be ironed out, and a very good defender. Mathurin is definitely the superior shooter and scorer in general, but I don't think his ancillary skills are as high a level, so he may take longer to fit into an NBA roleplayer position - which is going to happen, given that neither Mathurin nor Daniels are likely to be real #1 or #2 guys on a functional team.

    I'd prefer Sochan over Dieng, as well - I like Dieng but his feel as an offensive player seems a touch suspect to me and I don't think he's nearly as strong or explosive and doesn't get great angles with the ball in his hands. Sochan probably isn't the ball-handler prospect Dieng is, but he's a far superior defender, I think he's a stronger frame and he's an excellent secondary passer.
    For me, when it comes down to who’s skill set I would start a team with its Dieng. Sochan is always a spark, hustling, making good reads, defending anyone, rebounding. Dieng has the higher two way player potential in my eyes with how he uses his length, fluidity, and IQ on both sides. Can possibly defend the best player, play helpside, drop 30, and facilitate. Don’t think Sochan can give you as much on offense, which is what I would value when swinging for my top guy

  8. #1208
    Right, but you are not starting a team. You are complementing a team. If Dieng gets to his ceiling, it’s as a creator and I have no idea how he would have those opportunities to develop that on a team with Zion, BI, and CJ

    It’s not about fit, as much as seeing the pathway to getting a guy to his ceiling and I really struggle to see how Dieng gets the thousands of reps he needs to make mistakes and learn from the mistakes as that creator here

  9. #1209
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I just cant get there, but I know they have talked to the kid and people around him a ton. They have way more background than I do. I just do see 'IT' on the court.
    He is one of those guys I do enjoy the interviews of. Him learning to speak English while being a lone teenager in NZ in the middle of lockdown is impressive, and him still finding ways to grow is cool. You can even tell when you watch tape how much his teammates there liked him (and scouts have backed that up.)

    I just think he's super raw and whether he actually puts it all together is a big mystery or as you say, if he even puts it together 'consistently' or not.

    I don't mind betting on physical tools + smarts, but I'd like to see more skill output ideally in that pick. I'm not sure what I'd say Ousmane is 'very good' at skill-wise...

  10. #1210
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Right, but you are not starting a team. You are complementing a team. If Dieng gets to his ceiling, it’s as a creator and I have no idea how he would have those opportunities to develop that on a team with Zion, BI, and CJ

    It’s not about fit, as much as seeing the pathway to getting a guy to his ceiling and I really struggle to see how Dieng gets the thousands of reps he needs to make mistakes and learn from the mistakes as that creator here
    I’m bearish on how many years CJ has left and Zion staying long term with the team. So I can see a path to him shouldering a heavy load within two years

  11. #1211
    Spend first year and half focusing on D, once CJ gets too old and Griff has had it with Lee or vice versa it’s showtime

  12. #1212
    Shamit Dua has entered the chat...

  13. #1213
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfox View Post
    He is one of those guys I do enjoy the interviews of. Him learning to speak English while being a lone teenager in NZ in the middle of lockdown is impressive, and him still finding ways to grow is cool. You can even tell when you watch tape how much his teammates there liked him (and scouts have backed that up.)

    I just think he's super raw and whether he actually puts it all together is a big mystery or as you say, if he even puts it together 'consistently' or not.

    I don't mind betting on physical tools + smarts, but I'd like to see more skill output ideally in that pick. I'm not sure what I'd say Ousmane is 'very good' at skill-wise...
    He’s 6’10 with a smooth handle, shot stroke, and can read pick and roll at a pretty high level for his age

  14. #1214
    Quote Originally Posted by coreylaron View Post
    I’m bearish on how many years CJ has left and Zion staying long term with the team. So I can see a path to him shouldering a heavy load within two years
    If you're planning your draft around the presumption that CJ will fall off a cliff within the next 2 years and Zion is already gone, then I think you're making a mistake in the first place. If you're certain of that, your entire plan changes. Luckily, I don't think either of those things will be a problem and therefore we don't need to draft today in order to solve an imaginary problem tomorrow.

  15. #1215
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    If you're planning your draft around the presumption that CJ will fall off a cliff within the next 2 years and Zion is already gone, then I think you're making a mistake in the first place. If you're certain of that, your entire plan changes. Luckily, I don't think either of those things will be a problem and therefore we don't need to draft today in order to solve an imaginary problem tomorrow.
    I think those issues are far from imaginary, but I see your point

  16. #1216
    I mean, even without CJ, you would have Zion and BI as perhaps the highest usage duo in the NBA. I think it’s like KD and Kyrie level usage. When those two play, barely anybody else ever creates. And again, that’s without considering CJ or Herb who likes to create. Jonas low post touches, Trey who is working hard on his ball handling this summer. I just don’t see it, but I have been wrong before. I hated Jaylen Brown coming out. Not gonna pretend I am definitely right, but I just can’t get there

  17. #1217
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I mean, even without CJ, you would have Zion and BI as perhaps the highest usage duo in the NBA. I think it’s like KD and Kyrie level usage. When those two play, barely anybody else ever creates. And again, that’s without considering CJ or Herb who likes to create. Jonas low post touches, Trey who is working hard on his ball handling this summer. I just don’t see it, but I have been wrong before. I hated Jaylen Brown coming out. Not gonna pretend I am definitely right, but I just can’t get there
    From this standpoint, it sounds like Sochan should be the top guy over even Daniels, if you have negate ball in hand ability due to the high usage of the rest of the team

  18. #1218
    Daniels isn’t a creator. At his ceiling, he is a connector and play finisher. I have said “if Hart and Ingles had a baby”

    Daniels is the ideal compliment on both ends with upside to add a little more as needed over the years

  19. #1219

  20. #1220
    I think of Daniels as Tall Derrick White with way less shooting

  21. #1221
    Sochan actually will need the ball a bit more as a creator early in his career because he wont be guarded if he doesn’t have the ball. Daniels is a good cutter and a good enough shooting threat and can attack better off close outs so people will stay tighter on him.

    Daniels has always been the perfect pick and a month ago, every mock had him available at 8. Freaking AJ Griffin not killing the process has the Pels on the verge of not getting any of their top 7

  22. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    They're very different players in some respects, which makes viewing them on an even footing more about preference than actual default ability.

    Of the two, I prefer Daniels - 6'7, 6'11 wingspan, very good passer, solid touch on his floaters makes me optimistic his horrendous FT abilities can be ironed out, and a very good defender. Mathurin is definitely the superior shooter and scorer in general, but I don't think his ancillary skills are as high a level, so he may take longer to fit into an NBA roleplayer position - which is going to happen, given that neither Mathurin nor Daniels are likely to be real #1 or #2 guys on a functional team.

    I'd prefer Sochan over Dieng, as well - I like Dieng but his feel as an offensive player seems a touch suspect to me and I don't think he's nearly as strong or explosive and doesn't get great angles with the ball in his hands. Sochan probably isn't the ball-handler prospect Dieng is, but he's a far superior defender, I think he's a stronger frame and he's an excellent secondary passer.
    For me it depends on any other moves we're planning on making. If we basically just stay with our team from last year, or just find a way to unload Graham's contract, then I draft either Mathurin or Daniels in that order. Mathurin is a good athlete, and good shooter and fills an immediate need. He also seems like his style of play will fit into the NBA.

    i'm torn on Dyson. Defensively he's better than Mathurin, so if that's the coaching staff's main area of concern, they might want to go with him. It's his offensive game that concerns me. There are things he does fairly poorly, and I'm even concerned with how some of his positive offensive traits will translate into NBA level competition. I think he's too deliberate on offense for the ADD NBA game. The hard part about passing on Dyson is his length and lateral movement both of which are pretty special for a guard, even in the NBA.

    If we're planning on making some more significant moves, especially if those moves deal with moving on from Jaxson, then I think I draft Sochan. Personally, I don't want Dieng, I think he's too soft. Sochan is the opposite of soft, his game is going to translate very well to NBA play. He's hyper active and very physical, and he has a real good defensive iq. In my opinion these defensive traits are more important in the NBA than what even Dyson brings to the table with his length and laterla movement. If you can't navigate through the physical play in the NBA you're going to be a step behind on defense no matter you're other traits. My concern with Sochan is his lack of elite level athleticism. How is that going to hinder his defensive effectiveness with NBA level play. Offensively, while his shooting is subpar, I think there is definite potential there. He has also shown some pretty good touch on fadeaway jumpers in the lane, something that translates well with NBA play.

  23. #1223
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfox View Post
    I think of Daniels as Tall Derrick White with way less shooting
    No offense but that’s a really bad comp IMO. Show me the games where White grabbed 18 boards. Show me White’s floater game or blocks at the rim. Covington on D and Ingles meets Hart on O is the comp IMO
    Last edited by MichaelMcNamara; 06-22-2022 at 09:24 AM.

  24. #1224
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni View Post
    For me it depends on any other moves we're planning on making. If we basically just stay with our team from last year, or just find a way to unload Graham's contract, then I draft either Mathurin or Daniels in that order. Mathurin is a good athlete, and good shooter and fills an immediate need. He also seems like his style of play will fit into the NBA.

    i'm torn on Dyson. Defensively he's better than Mathurin, so if that's the coaching staff's main area of concern, they might want to go with him. It's his offensive game that concerns me. There are things he does fairly poorly, and I'm even concerned with how some of his positive offensive traits will translate into NBA level competition. I think he's too deliberate on offense for the ADD NBA game. The hard part about passing on Dyson is his length and lateral movement both of which are pretty special for a guard, even in the NBA.

    If we're planning on making some more significant moves, especially if those moves deal with moving on from Jaxson, then I think I draft Sochan. Personally, I don't want Dieng, I think he's too soft. Sochan is the opposite of soft, his game is going to translate very well to NBA play. He's hyper active and very physical, and he has a real good defensive iq. In my opinion these defensive traits are more important in the NBA than what even Dyson brings to the table with his length and laterla movement. If you can't navigate through the physical play in the NBA you're going to be a step behind on defense no matter you're other traits. My concern with Sochan is his lack of elite level athleticism. How is that going to hinder his defensive effectiveness with NBA level play. Offensively, while his shooting is subpar, I think there is definite potential there. He has also shown some pretty good touch on fadeaway jumpers in the lane, something that translates well with NBA play.
    The flaw of the immediate need being filled is that Mathurin isn’t really going to see the floor. Murphy, Kira, Herb, Zion, Jose all getting those minutes

  25. #1225
    Correct. You don’t draft for current roster need. But you need to be cognizant of the players developmental path.

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