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A guy can threaten all he wants prior to the draft. After you take him, you got him for five years. They have no leverage. I wouldn?t care about any of those threats. One of the other top 7 guys would prefer not to come here and I guarantee Griff would take him if he is on the boardOriginally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni
@mcnamara247
I think if we move down to 12, it's almost guaranteed that we'll have one of our options at 12 either Griffin, Sochan, or Branham. Maybe Dieng, I haven't really heard much chatter about the Pels interest in Dieng. But if Dieng is one of our options than it's 100% guaranteed we'll have someone we're targeting. Even if we're not interested in one of those four, odds are someone outside of our sphere of interest will get drafted, probably Duren or Johnny Davis.
Hmm, sounds like Mathurin, maybe Ivey. Due to lack of big role immediately on a full Pels' squad, compared to immediate opportunity on other lotto teams.
It doesn't matter who has what leverage. Griffin isn't going to want the drama or any more negative press dealing with someone who doesn't want to be with the Pelicans. He'd sooner get someone the coaching staff is high on, like Griffin, then play games with a rookie and his extended group of handlers.
Woahhhh... I'm really glad we got 8th. The fall off after 8th is steep.
Mathurin and Dyson stock keep rising while only Murray and Sharpe seems to be getting a bit cold. It's still better than what comes after our pick.
Yea even if Sochan isn't there at 12, that means Dieng probably would be. #10 seems like the lowest you can guarantee still getting Sochan or Dieng.
The range for #12 seems to be: J. Davis, Duren, M. Williams, Griffin, Branham, Agbaji, J. Williams. If we could trade back to 12, and get one of Sochan, Dieng, or Duren, plus further assets, that's a win. Duren at 12 is palatable, 18 with that frame and athleticism, future Bam potential. I'm not as high on Branham. Dalen Terry at #12 would be the wtf Primo-esque pick.
Last edited by Rheem654; 06-19-2022 at 01:01 PM.
I think Murray stock just appears to be cold because he’s solid and draft twitter gets bored with guys after a while. All looking for the shiny new object. I don’t think Murray stock is getting cold around NBA circles
You are way overblowing that. Guys PREFER to be other places. There is nobody who would be upset to be a Pel. Again, if you guys knew how it goes on behind the scenes, it sounds like you all would hate all of these guys. They are all trying to maneuver to preferred spots. Literally, all of them
Again, Griffs issue with Sharpe was never his preference on where to play. He always questioned his competitiveness
ALL these guys are trying to pick their spots. Every single one.
Does anyone have us as their top spot?
If Sharpe and Griffin were seen as equals, I hear you. But that's not the case. Now, Sharpe and Daniels? Maybe...and that's a big maybe.
You have to draft value when you have a lottery selection. Ever hear of guy named Jaxson Hayes? Value trumps personalities every day of the week unless the player is an out-and-out lowlife. There is no indication that Sharpe is that. Even if worse comes to worse, you make him Birmingham's problem until you can move him (at the Pelican's price).
I have no idea their specific rankings. But again, I think this only matters to you guys because of your lack of awareness of how common this is and because of past scars.
But this isn’t Steve Francis. This isn’t a bunch of guys who will sit out or pout at the presser. They will be happy if a non ideal team picks their name. We all have preferences in life. I want to go to New Zealand but it looks like my wife will pick Portugal for us this year. I will be happy to go.
Agree with all of that. You have time. We all are in agreement that the guy we draft ain’t playing next year any way. So use it as a year to get to know him, recruit him, and/or boost his trade value. If he shows any flashes at all, you have a fantastic asset to move next year
You're arguing what you would do. I'm trying to predict what Griffin will do. If you draft a guy to potentially trade him down the line, you draft a guy that you're comfortable with keeping if the other guy you're coveting doesn't fall to your potential trade partner. I don't think you draft a guy that you don't want to deal with and don't want on your team.
My guess is, Griffin doesn't want to deal with Sharpe and his entourage, and doesn't want to pass up other prospects that either he or his team is high on for only the potential to be able to unload Sharpe on someone else.
So either they swap picks with someone and drop to a position in the draft that they're comfortable with, or they just go ahead and pick one of the available guys that they're targeting.
As for Dyson vs Griffin, I've heard that the coaching staff is high on AJ. Maybe they're higher on Dyson than Griffin, I don't know. I haven't heard what they thought of Dyson, I've just heard that the coaches like Griffin. It may be that they see Dyson as more of a long term project than Griffin, even if Dyson's ceiling is higher. I don't know.
Dyson's biggest skill set that could contribute right away is perimeter defense. He's got very good length and very good lateral movement for someone with his length. He doesn't fill your other need though, for three point shooting. Griffin seems to fill that need really well, his issue is that he won't give you much in the way of perimeter defense. So perhaps it's as simple as which need does the Pelicans staff think is the bigger need? Or perhaps do they think that Griffin's potential for improving his perimeter defense is better than Dyson's potential for perimeter offense.
Or perhaps they really do love Dyson, they've just been keeping a lid on it, hoping someone doesn't jump ahead of them and take him, and maybe the Griffin stuff is a smokescreen.
For PJ? In that range, for sure. I?ve long felt that?given Zion?s injury history?the Pels should invest in a back up PF who can start for stretches and keep the team viable. Here, Pels essentially shift the 2nd contract question from Hayes to Washington, who is a better fit, and pick up some much needed size, shooting and defensive flexibility off the bench in the backcourt.
I?m not as fixated on the 2nd contract issue. A lot can happen in a year or two to help make that determination. I wouldn?t make decisions just to avoid having to confront it.
And then you just let Nance go, or pay him 11-15 too?
You have to plan out steps years down the road. If you are the Warriors, maybe not, but the Pels arent gonna have three 30+ mil guys, and another 3-5 12+ million dollar guys. With that trade, you are basically including Nance in the deal too because it assures you cant keep him. Thats how you have to look at trades, as dominoes. You cant look at them in a vacuum. Pels arent paying 4 bigs. You do that trade, fine, but Nance wont be back after next year. With that calculus in mind, I would pass on that deal.
No...not quite, I'm arguing what any competent GM would do. If you can't manage personalities, you're in the wrong business.
You apparently are a 'needs' drafter. That will get you into a lot of trouble. There was a time when Portland needed a big man to anchor the middle. Long story short, they drafted a guy named Sam Bowie who played about 500 total games, and with the next pick, Chicago drafted a guy named Michael Jordan. The rest is history.
Last edited by As I See It; 06-19-2022 at 03:19 PM.
Nailed it.
Mathurin
CAW CAW!!!
-Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-
You can’t project that outcome with that degree of certitude. Think Nance works best as small-ball 5 and like line ups with him and PJ together in the front court. I’d actually think it more likely that Pels jettison Graham and Temple in the next year (15-16 million). And I’d be happy to move Washington and Ogbaji into slots vacated (long term) by Hayes, Graham and Temple. That doesn’t have to happen right this second for the deal to work, but it’s certainly a feasible result.
Washington can give you 12/6 off the bench, shoots about 38% from the arc, and has the combo of athleticism, weight and wingspan (7’+) to switch on defense. His contract situation is very similar to Hayes’ except that he’s a better player and a much better fit in the front court rotations. It’s possible he’d be a long term fit on the right deal.
Zions new deal will eat up that money saved by Graham, Temple, and Hayes. I would love to be paying BI, Zion, and CJ 90+ mil and also have the team willing to pay PJ Washington, Nance, and Jonas another 45-50 mil. Plus have the money for Herb, which isnt far away, plus use the MLE occassionally, etc. Unfortunately, that isnt us. I like Washington as a player but small market teams dont pay multiple bench players double digit millions, especially with a top heavy payroll.
I love Dort too - but its the same reason I wouldnt do the 8 for 12 and Dort trade.
You’re sure JV is a long term number? CJ even? Hard to see that far ahead—injuries, age conflicts. Get the players and trust your FO to sort it. Pels haven’t always been the best at that, but the 5-year plan went out with the Soviet Union…
Well, it's official. I now have no idea who I want to end up drafting. Soon as I think one thing, somebody convinces me we should do something else. Then, rinse and repeat. I know when I'm over my head...so I'm just gonna sit back...listen to you guys...and say, "Yep...great choice !!", when it's all said & done.
Luckily, I don’t think we can mess up the pick given the options available. Could mess up a trade, but hopefully we’ve learned from past mistakes
What almost everyone will do. The cycle of fandom. Dont beat yourself up lol
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