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Not even trying to be mean but do more research on him man. Hoop intellect has a decent video on him. From the Wing Podcast (Christian Clark new pod) had a recent pod on him. He has some of the worst hips, recovery, dies on screens, etc. His defense is negative negative negative one to the point where I even heard someone call him Anthony Morrow lolOriginally Posted by hornetsrebirth
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I mean I have read that defense is the knock against him, but that he was slowed by injury during his 1 year in college and that his 7 foot wingspan, impressive strength and athleticism indicate can develop into a plus defender to go along with his elite shot making.
It's funny because we do it every year. We start to focus mostly on what prospect can't do. We speak only about Griffin defensive weakness or Mathurin's lack of ball handling skills. Meanwhile for the prospect labelled with high upside we tend to discard any weakness by using their ability to improve.
For example Sharpe's defense was never good even at the lesser level, he never played organized basketball and yet no one is seeing as a flaw as fatal as it is for Griffin.
I think they all have far more weaknesses than strengths - when you are measuring against current NBA players. Like, even the best shooter in this class is maybe average compared to guys at his position in the league currently.
Why I continue to say that where a guy goes and his character, work ethic, humility, etc are going to dictate outcome more than anything else. And none of us have access to that info. So, I could put my best guess forward based on “watching tape” but maybe the kid gets money, eats terrible, can’t stand getting harsh feedback for the first time in his life, starts doing drugs to cope, etc etc
That is the stuff teams spend a ton of money and time on to try and find out. We can’t know. So, I throw out my opinions, but as I got older, I got way less dogmatic on draft prospects because we are all missing the really important info
@mcnamara247
That's an excellent point. It's kind of like the old saying it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. In Shaedon's case it's better to not play and have people speculate if you can play defense, then it is to play for Kentucky and remove all doubt.
But to be fair I think the bigger issue is the injury history of Griffin. Sharpe doesn't have the same concerns and he doesn't have injuries hurting his athletic proweress.
Heh. What concerns me more than the misses is how slow his jump shot is. When I watch Ignite games (ugh) he just seems to play so much slower than everyone else. And when I say slower, I don't really mean foot speed, I mean how deliberate his game is.
Which from what I understand is why he played for the Ignite, he knew that he wasn't playing NBA syle basketball in whatever Australian league he was playing in.
Wouldn't you say Giddey is very similar in that vein?
Look how he turned out
I agree to a certain extent that the intangibles are both important and hard to assess for fans but let's face all kids are not equals in term of skills.
What I found interesting is why we all seem to forget that players with larger experience are often judged harsher. Remember the scouts saying Doncic was going to be a burst because of his lack of athleticism ( he was even suppose to be to slow to play anything but power forward) ? Or when scouts said that Tatum was a high floor low ceiling type of player because of his defense ?
It's a very common human behavior by the way, the more you look at something or someone the more you see flaws and once you spot it you can't help but to notice it everytime.
For example why are people acting like Daniels shot is fixed ? Just because he had a good showcase at the combine and in some work-outs ? How is it proven it would be sustainable during a real game ? How do you even know he would not go back to his old mechanic at the first sign of doubt ?
Keeping this example in mind, if Mathurin showed on tape revamped handling, would everyone act like ball handling is no longer an issue for him ?
So yeah to me it's really weird that people can be sometime very assertive on a redflag being a proof of future non-success while discarding others similar.
That's why I like both Daniels and Mathurin, both are flawed players but I see for both a real path to succeed in the NBA if they have the personality to do so.
I think you are incorrect when you say “why are people assuming Daniels shot is fixed”
The belief is that it CAN be good. Again, none of these guys will hit their final form for like 4-6 years. It’s all projection. And they are most likely to hit based on the intangibles, not their current tangibles. Some things have a finite ceiling, usually athletic based things - Vasquez was never going to become more agile, Robin Lopez more vertically explosive, etc.
But ball handling, shooting, understanding of the game and opponents by watching more film… all those things can be vastly improved based on humility, work ethic, openness to trying new things, etc. And it’s easier to improve those things if the baseline is there. Daniels shooting 25 percent from three and Michael Kidd Gilcrest shooting 25 percent is not the same thing, for instance. Daniels form is there. It’s clear he is often off because he is mostly arms and once he builds lower body strength, there will be another adjustment period. But eventually you can see he could be good.
That would be the argument. Not that it is currently fixed
Last edited by MichaelMcNamara; 06-12-2022 at 11:09 AM.
You can see issues with his perimeter defense because of slower feet/lateral quickness (which could be a product of his injury). However when guys try to post him up, his physical strength becomes apparent and he looks defensively sound in those situations. So its not all bad. Perimeter defense is a work in progress but he is strong and athletic and big. Above all, the dude shot 45 percent from 3 point. That is super elite.
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I’m of the belief that Griffin’s defense is fixable. Fundamentally he’s really bad, not sure if that’s a result of the injuries and he fell on some bad habits but I don’t think he’s actually as slow laterally and as tight hipped as he comes across on video.
I think I like him more than Mathurin after a casual perusal of highlights
Even after AJ Griffin defensive issues, what else is he providing to a team outside of shooting? Does he rebound? Cut? Pass the ball? Etc
AJ Griffin is the one guy I DON'T want. For a team that values defense like the Pels do, he's the one guy that won't fit in well with this roster. Sure he'll be a solid shooter, but he's not a great athlete, and the defense is not good either. Anyone but him.
I think it’s just an unknown with him because that Duke team was so incredibly talented. He wasn’t really given an opportunity to do a whole lot else, but when he tried things off the dribble he was fairly successful. If you’re just comparing him to Benny, AJ is better in terms of on ball creation.
I mean this in a good way… I get Eric Gordon vibes when watching Griffin play. From the build to the step back to the wide base. Similar defensive issues as well that mainly seem to stem from being a slow processor.
Well, he makes extremely difficult shots. He moves really well off the ball. But I don?t think there?s much else yet.
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Jalen Duren should be a target. https://youtu.be/r31jwzM4V68 this kid is 18 and he?s huge. He?s an elite defender and super athletic. I hope we draft him if Daniels or Sharpe aren?t available. We need interior defense big time.
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That is the exact reason I don’t like him. If you aren’t getting the ball, go get a ton of boards. Go get some steals and some blocks. If all the focus is on others, attack hard when it comes to you and get to the line
Look at how many games he had 3 or less boards. 2 or less assists. 2 or less FT attempts. No steals, no blocks, etc.
And now he is gonna come to an even more talented team. You gotta find ways to impact the game without the ball and he doesn’t seem to want to do that
Last edited by MichaelMcNamara; 06-12-2022 at 12:12 PM.
This has always annoyed me about drafting.
It's straight up lying sometimes vs actual 'projection.'
You don't spend pick 8 on interior defense
Rob Williams looks great, but he was 29th ish. It's just not a good use of highly coveted resources
You don't draft solely for fit low in the lottery
Last edited by AusPel; 06-12-2022 at 12:23 PM.
Yea he’s not my guy or anything. I can just see some outcomes where he’s a really good player
Yea, that's fair. Especially in regards to their drives to the basket. Giddey looks like he's got a quicker release on his shot though. Part of Daniels' problem may just be that I don't think he really wants to shoot. It's not uncommon to see guys play way off of him and he doesn't even consider the shot. Giddey seems more a more confident shooter, even though his percentage is pretty crappy.
He definitely played pretty passively at Duke. That's probably my biggest issue with him, is that you could almost forget he was out on the court.
Giddey has all NBA potential. I don't think Daniels has that, but he's still gonna be really, really good
And a far better defender. I haven't seen Giddey make any noise on that end
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