Don't feed the trollsOriginally Posted by Heavy
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Don't feed the trolls
CAW CAW!!!
-Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-
We gotta stop with this well spoken ********. Read the room man.
I'm enjoying watching Johnny Davis play defense on here. He's a scorer... but his defense is ridiculous.
What's the issue with saying the young man is well spoken?
Am I missing something?
You rarely hear white people being complimented for being "well-spoken" because it is just assumed that they are. You only hear the "well-spoken" compliment directed at black people, because it is assumed that they're not well-spoken.
EDIT: I'm not here to debate this. Just google "well-spoken" and "racist" for more reading on the subject. But I will say this: when I first learned about this phenomenon, I started to pay attention to it, and I've found it to be true: black people and not white people are complimented for being "well-spoken." I can only assume it is because the complimenting person has very low expectations.
Last edited by Upper Decker; 06-06-2022 at 03:30 PM.
Insecurity is a vice. Mindreading is even worse.
Just Sayin'
Not gonna speak for everyone but I am in Utah and it’s only white people here. 90 plus percent of my employees are white kids 18 or under. And I say well spoken a lot, complimenting them to their managers because I am shocked when a younger person nowadays has any social skills and/or written skills. For me, it’s an age thing. But I know others have other biases. Any kid I see that can articulate a thought… I am blown away by. Any color. Especially considering the fact that none of them have gotten actual schooling the last few years
@mcnamara247
Wtf does that even mean??
I love dudes game. I think he's the most likely guy to exceed his expectations and be the player that fans look back on in 5 years and say, "How did he fall out if the top 10?" He's so crafty, strong, smart and competitive. He gives it 100% on both ends of the floor. People point to his athleticism as limiting his upside, but I can list alot of great scorers who aren't elite athletes. One of them is on our team. Davis is legit. I would be very happy with him.
I will admit, I don’t see it with Davis. As far as him getting to that top tier level of player. He just can’t get by even high level college defenders, let alone NBA. But I think he will find a way to be a solid starter.
Like I would put Dillon Brooks as my comp for the most likely way his career plays out. Which is a really nice player. And I would have his floor pretty high. No way he is out of the league or racking up DNPs in 5 years. But I wouldn’t have his ceiling much higher than Brooks either. I would have his ceiling lower than Trey Murphy’s for instance
Im not saying anyone on here hasnt, but you are not going to get the full appreciation for Johnny’s value if you aren’t watching the full games. He makes his impact felt on almost every single possession on both sides of the ball. I cannot wait to see him in NBA spacing as part of a team where he doesn’t have to have a 34% usage and also guard the opposing teams player. The guy guarded Jaden Ivey every second that Ivey was in the game and also had 37 and 14.
Contributor
Sharpe is getting downward buzz? Huh. Almost like someone has been prepping us with this information days and days in advance.
Hmmm?
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/06/nb...ero-jaden-iveyWhile Sharpe drew a lot of buzz from teams at the combine, some of that excitement has turned to trepidation over the past couple weeks, and it?s clear that a lot is going to hinge on how he handles his individual workouts. This is probably about as far as he could hypothetically fall, and he?s getting looks from teams in the top five due to his immense athletic gifts and shot-making potential. The issue is that it?s hard to expect a player who hasn?t played in many high-level game environments to really help an NBA team in the immediate future, and also that a lot of teams simply haven?t evaluated him for a prolonged period of time due to COVID, his late-blooming high-school career, and the fact he sat out at Kentucky.
Considering Sacramento, Indiana and Portland currently seem focused on making real improvements next season, the prospect of taking on a project like Sharpe might be a little less appealing in those spots, but at some point, his upside is hard to pass on. If he makes it out of the top six, he might become a trade target at No. 7 and No. 8, and it?s also possible the Blazers or Pelicans could just decide to take a huge swing on him. New Orleans is in a pretty flexible position with this pick, but if Sharpe were to unexpectedly slip, this would be a low-pressure situation for him to develop his game.
Last edited by Eman5805; 06-06-2022 at 07:56 PM.
He was unreal that game. But he doesn’t get touches like that with the Pels. He will be the 4th or 5th most talented guy on the court here and that guy can’t be holding the ball.
But when actually presented with open jumpers off the catch this season, he took them and he made them at a nice percentage. That roster build at Wisconsin was so weird where they were like the fourth worst spot up shooting team in all of college basketball while also just basically not being able to dribble outside of Davis and Davison. It may be a cop out and potentially a fallacy in my scouting method, but I don’t think his play this season is entirely indicative of how he would fair in a roster that had some semblance of an offensive structure
I have Davis 7th on my board behind the big 4, Murray, and Daniels and basically was super happy with everything I had seen about him until I was deep diving last night trying to see how he faired surrounded by more talent. I was super surprised to find out that he was basically a DNP on the U-19 USA team behind guys like Adam Miller and Kennedy Chandler. While I actually love Chandler, you would think that Davis would play over him in a setting like that. It definitely scares me a bit because I don’t really know why
Ironically, I did not like the idea of Davis and I loved the idea of Mathurin. Prior to watching them I was totally out on Davis and desperately wanted Mathurin. Then I watched the tape and totally flipped on Davis and cooled a bit on Mathurin (still would be ok with him at 8)
Davis should be better currently. The difficulty with all this is you are not picking who the best player is now. You are projecting who will be the best in 5 years. If you were just picking the best player for now, this would be easy. With Davis, where and how does he grow? Harder to see that than it is when you have a raw, but super athletic guy. But yes, a game tomorrow - Davis is better. As he should be
Agreed 100%. And I'm not really worried about his fit in Willie's 0.5 scheme. I think he played an isolated heavy style out of necessity. He was far and away the best creator and scorer on Wisconsin's team. But he's smart and a winner above all else, so I think he could adapt his game to fit most any system. And BI isos alot and he fit in fine. Same with CJ. Sometimes your best players just gotta go get a bucket. His usage here wouldn't be half of what it was in college, so that's not a concern for me. I think his mental make-up, craftiness, touch and strength are all elite for his position. I think he could effectively guard 1-3. If he develops his three point shooting and gets above average there, then he's a good starting guard. He doesn't have tons of things to work on and add to his game, like some other guys do (Mathurin, Griffin, Sochan, Dieng, etc). He's already pretty good at most things. I think people interpret that as low ceiling, but I think he's just further along at this age than most coming out. Again, I credit that to his drive and work ethic. I'd love to land Johnny Davis, but I think most of the fanbase has been sold on the idea that he's a low ceiling prospect.
If we trade down with Sharpe on the board at #8, and end up with a guy like Branham or something, it's gonna give me flashbacks to 2019, when we traded #4 for #8 and #17. Would be very disappointing. If Sharpe is still on the board at 8, you take him and glue him to CJ's hip.
I agree. I’d say the same of Maturin if both Daniels and Sharpe are gone.
So I’d push back in that I think that Davis has significant two way upside. I think he could be like roughly a B offensively and an A defensively. Similarly, I think Benny can be an A offensively and a B- defensively. The difference is, where Johnny is right now makes me believe that his ceiling outcome is more likely than Mathurin’s.
I believe Davis has significant shooting upside. If I trust Vinson, then I think that Davis is a great pick. I also really like his potential as a secondary ball handler. I don’t think he can quite get to where CJ is fundamentally as a dribbler, but his ability to get to his spot in the mid and rise up reminds me of CJ.
I think too often we overemphasize raw athleticism when judging a prospect’s potential. Davis may not have the technical vertical that a guy like Mathurin has, but his ability to combine his still above average athletic ability with an elite awareness on the glass, in passing lanes, etc. makes his athleticism a little bit more functional than Mathurins. When I watch Benny, his athleticism never really pops unless he has a free run at the rim because the processing can be so slow. That’s why I’ve made the Ben Mclemore comp on twitter a few times because the dude has an absolutely gorgeous stroke, but that only gets you so far in the league. He has to improve an a lot of area just to get consistent minutes.
Long story short, I see Davis and Benny having similar upsides, but Davis is more likely to reach his because he already has less to work on.
My thing always comes back to I think most of these guys become who they become based on where they go. Their outcome is not an absolute. So, its not really prospect vs prospect. Its prospect and their destination vs prospect and their destination. The Pelicans specific situation, IMO, allows a more raw guy a better chance at reaching his ceiling because he can come in and just focus on finishing plays on offense, while also being forced to go all out on D to earn minutes. That same raw prospect goes somewhere else and one night they ask Y of him, the next X, the next Z, etc.... plus he gets used to losing and the bad habits that come with that, he busts more times than not. Sharpe goes to Pels vs. Sharpe goes to Kings; two massively different career outcomes IMO.
Meanwhile, a more diverse prospect like Davis, who spent last year doing a bunch of different things, now being asked to significantly scale that back - I think that regresses him a bit. If I was his agent, I would prefer to see him go to like OKC and just run the second unit, being a do everything guard off the bench and then inevitably be high usage when SGA and/or Giddey get injured or shut down. Or go to NY, where Thibs will fall in love with him and play him 40 mins a night. But coming to the Pels, where every unit will have at least 1 (usually 2) of Zion, CJ, and BI...you relegate him to a catch and shoot guy, where he is okay on limited volume, but he wont shine there.
At the end of the day, these are all 18, 19, and 20 year old kids. I used to get all dogmatic about prospects, like I knew exactly who was better than whom, but time humbles you and the X factor that will truly determine all this is their personality, humility, maturity, etc - of which none of us are truly privy to. So, to that I say, lets just hope the Pels get it right, whomever they choose.
Yea those are great points. I think this year more than most, agents should and will be working to get their guys to Nola because whoever the pick is will be set up so perfectly for success. I am so confident that the pick will reach 75-80% of their ceiling on this team barring anything unforeseen. The combination of little to no pressure to contribute immediately, presence of elite scorers with established roles, Willie, and Vinson is just a beautiful set up for a prospect to arrive.
I’ll admit you sold me a bit. Maybe not necessarily on Mathurin but I need to go back and watch Sharpe again.
Yeah, not really trying to sell anybody on much except for the idea that none of us KNOW. And regardless of what we think now, the same thing is gonna play out
1. Day of the draft, everyone will have really strong opinions and projections
2. Night of the draft, 60% will LOVE the pick, 30% will like it but hedge, 10% will hate it
3. The next week the draft pick and the team will say all the right things. Bloggers will say why it was the PERFECT pick and how the prospect can easily fix the one weakness by.....
4. Summer league will come and the guy will show flashes at which point he will be proclaimed the right pick, but then somebody who was taken later will show better flashes and that same 10% will come back and say "See!?!?!!!" while the majority will say "Its just summer league, doesnt mean anything, wait until our guy is playing off Zion and BI!!"
Rinse and repeat. lol
Sounds about right.
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