What Constitutes 'Victory' in a Phoenix Series?

[SonOfNOLA]

Winning a game vs Phx in N.O. and keeping some of the losses final score close is a big victory despite being counted out since the first play-in game.

I would like to see Ingram and McCollum take over entire games the same way that they take over first quarters and first halves. It seems like Coach Green gets in their way too much with reserves taking their shots in the 3rd after the two stars light it up at the beginning of games, back to back games now. Maybe its to prevent injuries or having them fatigued late in games. But I feel like BI and CJ can make this a 6 or 7 game series if Green lets them cook all game. Both are capable of dropping 30-40+ any night.

[6warddude]

What would "putting the league on notice" look like to you, specifically?

Personally, I would be impressed with anything more than - 25/5/5 on 46/37/85. Thats kind of what I would expect. More than that would be a step up for him. But maybe more importantly, I want those similar efficiencies at the end of game. If he goes gang busters in the first half of all the games and then is bad at end of games, its not really a "league on notice" thing, even though the stats might seem big because of the scoring in the non winning time moments.

that he is a closer....that he can consistently lead the team to the playoffs and be a closer with zion as his side kick....be in the mvp talks yearly......

i think its his time....he has a taste of the playoffs now and i believe that hunger stays with him to do everything in his power to keep improving on his game..

[MichaelMcNamara]

that he is a closer....that he can consistently lead the team to the playoffs and be a closer with zion as his side kick....be in the mvp talks yearly......

i think its his time....he has a taste of the playoffs now and i believe that hunger stays with him to do everything in his power to keep improving on his game..

I would LOVE if he shows that. I am still skeptical, but I hope this becomes that next step for him.

[Eyquem]

The 2007-08 team won 56 games and had perhaps the most pass first point guard in the league, and none of the premier guys even remotely considered the team. However, you could become a team that guys dont mind being traded to. This past offseason, Griff had some talks but guys like Lillard and Beal werent interested and let that be known. Perhaps you could become that level of small market team - where guys wont say no to being traded to your city, but New Orleans wont be a place guys try to go. Thats reserved for like 4-6 markets. Guys dont even go to Dallas as free agents. Its not something to realistically strive for, but getting into that "I dont mind" tier is a win

Yeah, I agree unfortunately. But it really only takes one guy to potentially buck the trend! If a future star with an offbeat personality (Tim Duncan, Andrei Kirilenko, prime Ron Artest) falls in love with the idea of playing in New Orleans, that would be a game-changer. Even a guy like Jonathan Isaac-- he has the potential to be a future DPoY, is uber religious, & doesn't seem to gel in Orlando... maybe someone of that ilk decides NY, LA, and Miami are unappealing. But sadly I do agree that NOLA will probably never be a major destination for the majority.

[6warddude]

I would LOVE if he shows that. I am still skeptical, but I hope this becomes that next step for him.

i know this is off topic but im curious about it since i was watched the cavs play in..

my question is this......salary wise and picks,,was it doable to trade lonzo for markkanen when we had the deal then make the trade for CJ also?...

i was just curious what would a CJ- BI- herb-markkanen-jonas lineup would produce...then have markkanen back up zion and jonas....

[MichaelMcNamara]

Yeah, I agree unfortunately. But it really only takes one guy to potentially buck the trend! If a future star with an offbeat personality (Tim Duncan, Andrei Kirilenko, prime Ron Artest) falls in love with the idea of playing in New Orleans, that would be a game-changer. Even a guy like Jonathan Isaac-- he has the potential to be a future DPoY, is uber religious, & doesn't seem to gel in Orlando... maybe someone of that ilk decides NY, LA, and Miami are unappealing. But sadly I do agree that NOLA will probably never be a major destination for the majority.

I mean, Memphis just had an amazing season and has perhaps the most exciting young player in the league there. They could have tons of cap room this offseason. You think anybody is going there?

This isnt unique to NOLA. The top guys really only want to go to 4 or 5 places and it is what it is. But its also a curse for those big markets. Now, you gotta bow down to those stars and how has that worked for the Lakers, Clippers, and Nets?

[MichaelMcNamara]

i know this is off topic but im curious about it since i was watched the cavs play in..

my question is this......salary wise and picks,,was it doable to trade lonzo for markkanen when we had the deal then make the trade for CJ also?...

i was just curious what would a CJ- BI- herb-markkanen-jonas lineup would produce...then have markkanen back up zion and jonas....

I am kind of confused, Lauri for Lonzo was the year before. But to get to your overall point -- could we have afforded them all? Yes. Could have traded Lonzo for Lauri, re-signed Lauri and then did the same trade for CJ this year. But if you have Lauri, do you draft Herb at 35 or do you go for a guard? Would Trey have gotten small ball 4 minutes or be further down the depth chart? Do you ask for Nance in the CJ trade if you already have all those bigs?

I know Lauri had one nice game yesterday, but he wouldnt rank in my top 10 of "could haves" in the Griff era. Fine with saying no to that deal

[6warddude]

I am kind of confused, Lauri for Lonzo was the year before. But to get to your overall point -- could we have afforded them all? Yes. Could have traded Lonzo for Lauri, re-signed Lauri and then did the same trade for CJ this year. But if you have Lauri, do you draft Herb at 35 or do you go for a guard? Would Trey have gotten small ball 4 minutes or be further down the depth chart? Do you ask for Nance in the CJ trade if you already have all those bigs?

I know Lauri had one nice game yesterday, but he wouldnt rank in my top 10 of "could haves" in the Griff era. Fine with saying no to that deal

yeah,,my bad..i dont know why i was thinking lonzo was this trade deadline lol...

[SonOfNOLA]

Pels top 3 matches up well against Suns top 3. BI and CJ can outduel Booker and Paul in offensive production. JV may not stop Ayton, but he can match production.

The problem is can the Pels stop Bridges, Cam Johnson, Cam Payne, and Crowder when they get hot. They’ll be the reason why the Suns will go on runs and stretch their leads up high. Suns depth is more consistent than the Pels and that’s how they’ll win the series. I’m hoping Nance, Herb, Trey, Alvarado, and Graham can step up and not miss open shots and putbacks. If those 5 are cold, then Pels don’t have a chance at keeping the games competitive. BI and CJ will get theirs.

If our secondary players can play well, then that’s the biggest victory to me

[6warddude]

yeah,,my bad..i dont know why i was thinking lonzo was this trade deadline lol...

see this is why i ask stuff like this because i look at short sighted moves and then think about the ramification later down the line in sports.....

[AusPel]

yeah,,my bad..i dont know why i was thinking lonzo was this trade deadline lol...

I think there was a Lonzo Lauri deal talked about at the deadline in 2021

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think there was a Lonzo Lauri deal talked about at the deadline in 2020. Or was it 2021

It was more than talked about. Griff had a firm offer on the table. Lauri for Lonzo straight up. Griff told them not to call back unless they were willing to add a first. He was pretty sure Chicago would call back. They never did.

Yes, he took less a few months later, but at the time he knew 2 or 3 other teams were going to go hard after Lonzo, including Boston. And he thought he could play them against each other and get more. But Lonzo didnt even consider anybody else and wasting willing to do a sign and trade anywhere else and so Griff took what he could get and filed a complaint to the league, knowing Chicago and Lonzos people had been colluding on that for the previous few weeks/months.

[AusPel]

It was more than talked about. Griff had a firm offer on the table. Lauri for Lonzo straight up. Griff told them not to call back unless they were willing to add a first. He was pretty sure Chicago would call back. They never did.

Yes, he took less a few months later, but at the time he knew 2 or 3 other teams were going to go hard after Lonzo, including Boston. And he thought he could play them against each other and get more. But Lonzo didnt even consider anybody else and wasting willing to do a sign and trade anywhere else and so Griff took what he could get and filed a complaint to the league, knowing Chicago and Lonzos people had been colluding on that for the previous few weeks/months.

Could have matched and re-visited the trade options 6 months later

Obviously, a lot of moving parts in between

[MichaelMcNamara]

Could have matched and re-visited the trade options 6 months later

Obviously, a lot of moving parts in between

Yeah, but then do you have the culture you have now when one of your starting guards doesnt want to be here and is just being held on to in order to be traded later?

Sometimes, taking a step backwards is necessary to take 3 steps forward. To me, the issue with that trade is making Year 2 of Temple's deal guaranteed. I would rather of just had Troy Brown or someone else put in the trade. Other than that, the trade was fine. You needed the Sato salary for the CJ trade

[AusPel]

Yeah, but then do you have the culture you have now when one of your starting guards doesnt want to be here and is just being held on to in order to be traded later?

Sometimes, taking a step backwards is necessary to take 3 steps forward. To me, the issue with that trade is making Year 2 of Temple's deal guaranteed. I would rather of just had Troy Brown or someone else put in the trade. Other than that, the trade was fine. You needed the Sato salary for the CJ trade

Alls well that ends well

Hopefully Graham can be the same sort of trade ballast down the line

[SonOfNOLA]

Take one of the first two games and going to New Orleans with the series tied 1-1 will have the city go crazy. Then take one of game 3 or game 4 in New Orleans and the Pels ?won? the series against everybody?s expectations with a 2-1/2-2 series as a 36 win 8th seed vs 64 win 1st seed. I really want us to take game 1 and control the series momentum from there.

[AusPel]

This is an impressive amount of unrealistic hypotheticals you've managed to jam together

I'm eager to see where you head next

[MichaelMcNamara]

To get back to the OP, here are some places where Phoenix is not great (its a short list)

- They dont draw a ton of fouls. So, hopefully we never have to see Herb on the bench in foul trouble. He should be able to get his full minutes all series

- They really struggle to rebound in their stagger units. Not so much when Ayton is on the bench, because McGee and Biyombo were both fine, but when they lose Booker or CP3 they reallys struggle for some reason. My guess would be because they are scrambling more to recover

- They are incredibly reliant on the mid range, as they also dont take a lot of 3's. The downside is they drain their mid range shots. But maybe they are off one or two games.

Honestly, this is a mismatch and there isnt much to exploit. The Suns are basically a much more efficient version of the Pels. They take similar shots, the Suns are just more open when they take theirs because they have better creators. They also have better defenders.

If two teams are going to take the same 90 shots over the course of the game and one of those teams have far less contested shots, they should win almost every time. So, the way to change the equation is to change your shot profile, and that would mean either getting to the line a ton or shooting 45-50 three's to their 32 three's

[AusPel]

Yeah, but then do you have the culture you have now when one of your starting guards doesnt want to be here and is just being held on to in order to be traded later?

Sometimes, taking a step backwards is necessary to take 3 steps forward. To me, the issue with that trade is making Year 2 of Temple's deal guaranteed. I would rather of just had Troy Brown or someone else put in the trade. Other than that, the trade was fine. You needed the Sato salary for the CJ trade

Yeah, I also found Temple's contract too guaranteed

Am I surprised? No. He has a long and varied history of these inexplicable over-guarantees or longer than necessary contracts. Dell was the same.

Maybe the lowest common denominator is New Orleans

[6warddude]

i dont understand why willie dont have screen plays for trey to shoot a bunch of open 3s...

after game one, i hope the coaching staff will come up with more options to cover the suns PnR....maybe switch jonas and jax and let jax play the PnR because he at least can recover and may alter a shot or block a lob..

[MichaelMcNamara]

Its really crazy to look at how many games Phoenix lost where they had their top 4 guys and they were trying. There really is only 2 games - January 8th vs Miami. They had everyone and Miami was missing Jimmy and Bam, and Miami smoked them. But maybe Phoenix was just asleep, not taking it seriously. Or maybe they just had a fun off night in Miami the night before.

The only other one is a game vs Atlanta and in that game Trae Young went off plus Atlanta went 20-40 from deep.

When you try to look for a formula to beat healthy Phoenix, it really comes down to just getting stupid hot from deep and/or having them disinterested

[SonOfNOLA]

This is an impressive amount of unrealistic hypotheticals you've managed to jam together

I'm eager to see where you head next

Lol like all of your posts. To the ignore list you go.

[rocketfox]

Cam Johnson will take his turns on him, Crowder too. It will be a nice test for BI, especially as Phoenix makes adjustments and gives him new looks. FWIW - Ingram only played in 2 of the games vs the Suns. 22/6/5.5. Shot 40% from the field, 0% from three, 3 turnovers per game. Not his best, not his worst.

Man he cooked Cam last year. Got excited every time Cam was in front of him because he's too slow-footed to stop a lot of guys.

I don't really remember Mikal doing anything that memorable vs BI either tbh. But playoffs have a different intensity.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Man he cooked Cam last year. Got excited every time Cam was in front of him because he's too slow-footed to stop a lot of guys.

I don't really remember Mikal doing anything that memorable vs BI either tbh. But playoffs have a different intensity.

First game Ingram played them in January, he was terrible. Ironically, our leading scorer was Devonte Graham, who hit 6 three's. I expect Ingram to have stretches where he looks terrible in this series. Just a question of how frequent those stretches are

[hornetsrebirth]

It was a huge victory to get to this point. Huge. But the only thing that constitutes victory in my mind as it relates to the Phoenix series, is winning the series. I understand how unlikely it is for us to knock off the top seed, I'm not expecting it to happen. I do think its possible. And that is the real definition of victory.

There are some nice consolations prizes if we aren't victorious. Obviously we want no new injuries carrying over to next season. But I am excited that win or lose, we are getting to measure ourselves against the number 1 team in the conference in a playoff series. We are going to understand what it means to go up against the very best, find out how close we really are and what we need to do to get to the top. I expect the team to learn a great deal from this exposure.

Also if we show out, I expect the league to take notice. I think the era of players not wanting to come to New Orleans is officially over. None of our guys want to leave this team, and other players are going to want to come here. The perception of the Pelicans has already changed, but if we make these games competitive and show our team's awesome vibe on the big stage, its going to be that much more of a difference.