November 15th - New Orleans Pelicans vs Washington Wizards - 2-12

[luckyman]

I feel like with some coaching, conditioning and Zion coming back the Ingram ISO ball issues get solved. More concerned about bad shot selection from NAW and HART.

For players like NAW and Hart I expect that. And your all star is expected to put them on his shoulders. So I have no problem at all putting last night's loss all on Brandon Ingram. He lost the game.

Just like I put that win against Minnesota also on Ingram, but certain other folks then wanna hide the pitch forks and disappear.

[Pelicanidae]

Ingram is probably always gonna be due his ISO Blunder moment... What I worry about is when we get into being in playoff contention and deep in a series where you pretty much live or die on ISO ability in 4th QTRs.

That's always where it's going to be a big concern, although, I do think it's important to get to the playoffs first. Maybe, for all we know, it's a psychological thing with Ingram and he'll be able to get over it in a season where we're winning enough for the playoffs to be a real possibility? Could happen. Stranger things have.

And of course if you find yourself continually getting jammed up in the playoffs for multiple years where Ingram is just failing to cut it, then you do a Toronto and move him like they did DeRozan, who was another example of a really good self-creator and scorer who nonetheless continually ran into a brick wall come the post-season, but was good enough to be the core of a Kawhi Leonard trade.

[Taker597]

That's always where it's going to be a big concern, although, I do think it's important to get to the playoffs first. Maybe, for all we know, it's a psychological thing with Ingram and he'll be able to get over it in a season where we're winning enough for the playoffs to be a real possibility? Could happen. Stranger things have.

And of course if you find yourself continually getting jammed up in the playoffs for multiple years where Ingram is just failing to cut it, then you do a Toronto and move him like they did DeRozan, who was another example of a really good self-creator and scorer who nonetheless continually ran into a brick wall come the post-season, but was good enough to be the core of a Kawhi Leonard trade.

Couldn't say it better than this. Ingram will be a valuable plus asset till he hits the wrong side of 29. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Taker597]

https://twitter.com/_Andrew_Lopez/st...-JpqW_78Q&s=19

Zion started one on one.

What I been told for about 3 weeks now that he's coming back around Christmas. January the latest and mid December at the earliest.

[Pelicanidae]

Not really something that should change anyone's expectations or timetable imo, they told us like 2 weeks ago that he'd be checked in 2/3 weeks again to see if he was ready to return and that he'd be doing 1v0, 5v0 stuff for that time span.

Now we know he seems to be on track and is cleared for full contact starting with 1v1 and they'll check again in just over a week (8 days) to make sure that's fine before clearing him for full contact. So that's in line with that 3 week timetable they told us about roughly 2 weeks ago.

Of course, if he is cleared in 8 days for full 5v5, you still expect them to give him a week or so of 5v5 to warm up before bringing him out on to the court, and one would expect them to want him to return in a home game.

So 24th + one week takes us to Dec 1st which is the day we play Dallas at home, and the first home game after that is Denver Nuggets on December 8th.

So tentative December 8th timeline for Zion's return? That seems to make sense based on the info we've been given so far, which of course is limited.

That would be game 27 of this season for us - and we're 15 games in now (2-13 record). So 11 more Zionless games based on this timetable, and those 11 games are against:

- Miami
- Clippers x2
- Pacers
- Wolves
- Wizards
- Jazz x2
- Mavs x2
- Rockets

That's a pretty rough span. With Ingram back, based on how we've played the last few games, I could see us winning maybe 4 of those games. Which would mean Zion would return to a Pelicans team with a 6-20 record for his first game. It would take a miracle for that team to become a playoff team, even if Zion is excellent this year. It would take an all-time season from him, like NBA First Team, top 3 MVP candidate finish, for him to be able to drag us to .500.

[Taker597]

Not really something that should change anyone's expectations or timetable imo, they told us like 2 weeks ago that he'd be checked in 2/3 weeks again to see if he was ready to return and that he'd be doing 1v0, 5v0 stuff for that time span.

Now we know he seems to be on track and is cleared for full contact starting with 1v1 and they'll check again in just over a week (8 days) to make sure that's fine before clearing him for full contact. So that's in line with that 3 week timetable they told us about roughly 2 weeks ago.

Of course, if he is cleared in 8 days for full 5v5, you still expect them to give him a week or so of 5v5 to warm up before bringing him out on to the court, and one would expect them to want him to return in a home game.

So 24th + one week takes us to Dec 1st which is the day we play Dallas at home, and the first home game after that is Denver Nuggets on December 8th.

So tentative December 8th timeline for Zion's return? That seems to make sense based on the info we've been given so far, which of course is limited.

That would be game 27 of this season for us - and we're 15 games in now (2-13 record). So 11 more Zionless games based on this timetable, and those 11 games are against:

- Miami
- Clippers x2
- Pacers
- Wolves
- Wizards
- Jazz x2
- Mavs x2
- Rockets

That's a pretty rough span. With Ingram back, based on how we've played the last few games, I could see us winning maybe 4 of those games. Which would mean Zion would return to a Pelicans team with a 6-20 record for his first game. It would take a miracle for that team to become a playoff team, even if Zion is excellent this year. It would take an all-time season from him, like NBA First Team, top 3 MVP candidate finish, for him to be able to drag us to .500.

12/17 is the date that's been floating around. Something about Nelson not letting him play super overweight with a surgically repaired foot..

[Pelicanidae]

12/17 is the date that's been floating around. Something about Nelson not letting him play super overweight with a surgically repaired foot..

Can you provide a source for that date, or am I just taking your word for it?

[ragincaucasian]

Ingram is probably always gonna be due his ISO Blunder moment... What I worry about is when we get into being in playoff contention and deep in a series where you pretty much live or die on ISO ability in 4th QTRs.

.

[Taker597]

Can you provide a source for that date, or am I just taking your word for it?

I'm just a friendly guy that works in Orthopedics, fam. Found out about Michael Thomas after mini-camp as well.

[Pelicanidae]

I'm just a friendly guy that works in Orthopedics, fam. Found out about Michael Thomas after mini-camp as well.

I have no idea who Michael Thomas is, or how impressive that's supposed to be.

[Taker597]

I have no idea who Michael Thomas is, or how impressive that's supposed to be.

New Orleans has other sports teams besides the Pelicans. You know who is next door to the Pelicans facility.... New Orleans Saints.

I'm going to pretend you're being hyperbolic like you can't use Google.

[ragincaucasian]

I have no idea who Michael Thomas is, or how impressive that's supposed to be.

New Orleans has other sports teams besides the Pelicans. You know who is next door to the Pelicans facility.... New Orleans Saints.

I'm going to pretend you're being hyperbolic like you can't use Google.

[Pelicanidae]

New Orleans has other sports teams besides the Pelicans. You know who is next door to the Pelicans facility.... New Orleans Saints.

I'm going to pretend you're being hyperbolic like you can't use Google.

Yeah, I figured he was probably an NFL guy, but I have no idea how restrictive or rumour-prone the NFL media circuit is, or whether it was one of those open-secrets that Michael Thomas had whatever injury it is that he had, and I don't really know if he's like an important guy in the team (in which case, surely it would be more well known if something happened to him) or not. Google can only help so much if you don't even really know what you're Googling for.

[Silverfoxx]

Not really something that should change anyone's expectations or timetable imo, they told us like 2 weeks ago that he'd be checked in 2/3 weeks again to see if he was ready to return and that he'd be doing 1v0, 5v0 stuff for that time span.

Now we know he seems to be on track and is cleared for full contact starting with 1v1 and they'll check again in just over a week (8 days) to make sure that's fine before clearing him for full contact. So that's in line with that 3 week timetable they told us about roughly 2 weeks ago.

Of course, if he is cleared in 8 days for full 5v5, you still expect them to give him a week or so of 5v5 to warm up before bringing him out on to the court, and one would expect them to want him to return in a home game.

So 24th + one week takes us to Dec 1st which is the day we play Dallas at home, and the first home game after that is Denver Nuggets on December 8th.

So tentative December 8th timeline for Zion's return? That seems to make sense based on the info we've been given so far, which of course is limited.

That would be game 27 of this season for us - and we're 15 games in now (2-13 record). So 11 more Zionless games based on this timetable, and those 11 games are against:

- Miami
- Clippers x2
- Pacers
- Wolves
- Wizards
- Jazz x2
- Mavs x2
- Rockets

That's a pretty rough span. With Ingram back, based on how we've played the last few games, I could see us winning maybe 4 of those games. Which would mean Zion would return to a Pelicans team with a 6-20 record for his first game. It would take a miracle for that team to become a playoff team, even if Zion is excellent this year. It would take an all-time season from him, like NBA First Team, top 3 MVP candidate finish, for him to be able to drag us to .500.

So basically we will be stuck in the worst spot to be in sports and where we been the past 3 seasons, mediocrity. It's actually amazing how we keep finding creative ways to stay mediocre.

[new city champ]

Had an interesting conversation over the weekend with an old classmate whose agency represents a player on the Pels. The gist of it was that a lot of the behind the scenes tension between Zion and the front office really has been over weight and conditioning issues. Specifically disagreements over his weight were an issue in his comeback from the meniscus tear, again when he returned to the bubble and remain a point of contention as Zion and his camp think way too much is made of it and don’t want his minutes tied to him hitting a specific playing weight. Second hand info, but he’s a pretty senior guy at his firm. He seemed to believe the Pels would give in this go round and let Z play his way into shape…

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Had an interesting conversation over the weekend with an old classmate whose agency represents a player on the Pels. The gist of it was that a lot of the behind the scenes tension between Zion and the front office really has been over weight and conditioning issues. Specifically disagreements over his weight were an issue in his comeback from the meniscus tear, again when he returned to the bubble and remain a point of contention as Zion and his camp think way too much is made of it and don?t want his minutes tied to him hitting a specific playing weight. Second hand info, but he?s a pretty senior guy at his firm. He seemed to believe the Pels would give in this go round and let Z play his way into shape?

That makes sense. Zion himself downplayed his weight after he left Duke, and claimed that he felt stronger or some such nonesense at his current weight. Unfortuantely, physics and physiology probably disagrees with him. One would think his knee injury in college, his knee injury before the start of his rookie year, his mystery undisclosed injury around the time of the bubble, and his current broken foot would be a wake up call, that playing at his current weight is not conducive for a long NBA career.

Unfortunately, even if Zion was more responsible in his off season conditioning, he's a big guy, and he'll always be a big guy. When he conditions muscle is replacing fat, but he still is pretty heavy especially for an NBA player. It is starting to make me wonder whether a long term NBA career is really in the cards for him. It's a shame because he has so much talent. But practically speaking, based on his frame, he probably should have considered a career in football.

[new city champ]

I still hold out hope for the ?Barkley? transformation. Sir Charles was three bills coming into the league as 6?5? center from Auburn. Like Zion, he was still an explosive athlete at that size. Unlike Zion, he realized by his second year he couldn?t play long term at that weight and dropped down to around 250 pounds. He was still an absolute bully going to the rim. He ended up having a long Hall-of-Fame career.

With Zion I agree it?s more than just cutting the baby fat. He should lean down some, drop some muscle mass. I think his Duke playing weight would work, but he?s got to model someone like LeBron?a big, explosive wing who had a long career by keeping in top condition year round?