Exactly. I'm not even concerned about the games and their outcome. I just need David Griffin away from this team and back to selling Dodge Darts and Journeys to bogues.Originally Posted by da ThRONe
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Exactly. I'm not even concerned about the games and their outcome. I just need David Griffin away from this team and back to selling Dodge Darts and Journeys to bogues.
What is the difference between ?fat shaming? an athlete, and ?fat shaming? a regular person? There seems to be a debate going on that people are hard on Zion because of his weight, but there is a difference between him being out of shape, and you or I being out of shape. He is paid to be in shape, and perform. That?s part and parcel of being a pro athlete. You and I (who aren?t athletes) aren?t required to be in shape to perform at our jobs. If I was ever asked to run a 5k 82 times a year for work I would probably quit, but then, I didn?t sign up for that life.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
There is no difference, it's unnecessarily mean in either case and - let's be honest here - if you're the sort of person making endless fat jokes about Zion you're probably not someone with the firm ethical boundary to only direct those insults towards people who are legally required to perform X or Y amount of physical activity for their job, either. You're probably just making fun of anyone you perceive as overweight, all the time. This isn't the domain of the nuanced takes.
If Zion's problem is that he just doesn't care, then yeah I think it's fair to place that on him and expect better. If his problem is that he has serious trouble managing his weight as a result of - for example - mental health related issues (Stress response eating, for example, being very common) or a physical issue (the team has mentioned that he seems to gain weight very easily: is it possible there's a biological reason for that?) then he needs support from the team in the form of maybe a therapist as well as a nutritionist and such.
Then, of course, that relies on him accepting the help, but we also know his family exerts pressure on him in that regard too, which is another problem.
Ultimately I think I feel pretty bad for Zion because between his weight issues, his injuries, the media circus, the blatant cruelty of the NBA fanbase, the weight of expectation, and the pressure of his family, he's probably got an awful lot to deal with. It's probably not pleasant, mentally.
Basketball.
I've said before I always admired how Monty Williams would check people from putting all the responsibility for the team's success on Anthony Davis when he was a young player. Never understood why the same doesn't apply to Zion. It's not all on him at 21. And if it is, you've done a poor job of building your team.
As far as fat "shaming" that can be overstated. As far back as I can remember professional athletes have been critiqued on their level of fitness and justifiably so. It's relevant to their job performance. Most teams have set fitness metrics, playing weights, etc... for their players. I agree people are dog piling Zion right now, but I've also heard that there is still some resistance in Zion's camp toward the idea that he has to play at a lighter weight than he has so far. That is misguided and ultimately damaging to both the player and the team. Zion and his team need to accept that his weight needs to come down and his commitment to fitness needs to come up. As Kenny Smith said recently, in the pros you don't play basketball to get in shape, you get in shape so you can play basketball.
The Zion weight controversy is nothing new to sport, See: Charles Barkley, Shaq, Shawn Kemp, Big Baby Davis, John Daily, Fernando Valenzuela, Tony Gwynn, John Kruk, Prince and Cecil Fielder, William 'Refrigerator' Perry, Jared Lorenzen (1981-1919), Kirby Puckett (1960-2006), Robert 'Tractor' Trailer, (1977-2011), and Babe Ruth (1895-1948).
When you place yourself in the public eye, you become subject to the public eye. That's only common sense. Problem is that today's coddled athlete is way too soft mentally to stomach criticism of any sort.
“Meanwhile, his mother Sharonda Sampson took care of his diet by swapping out soul food standards for healthier options,” Williams’ story explained. “All the sauce, the bacon, that stuff—he can’t have that,’ Sampson says. Instead, Williamson is sticking to salmon.”
My bigger problem with this whole thing is how voracious we are as fans and media at consuming any bit of information made available to us, and extrapolating an entire narrative from that. We see some photos of Zion, a big dude likely in layers of clothing (which is clearly a conscious choice, whatever you choose to take from that) and now we've constructed an exhaustive and overarching explanation for Zion's injury and his injury setbacks and etc.: he's fat, and not just fat, but I've heard people literally call him obese, which is, in my opinion, blatantly asinine.
Again, the only evidence being are some photos here and there of him in baggy attire or a video of him doing drills in layered clothing. And then their are conflicting first hand accounts of him from people sitting courtside at games, other photos where he's in tighter clothing or he's posing and he doesn't look at all as he is largely depicted.
And this isn't to say I believe Zion is in shape or not, it's more so just underlining the fickleness of people making definitive judgements on an issue when their is simply no concrete way of knowing present. And given that Zion and his family make a conscious effort to keep him out of the spotlight, it's impossible to guage precisely how much or how little Zion takes his conditioning seriously off the court.
And yet, because we crave constant info and jump at the first opportunity to make declarative statements on things, the lack of concrete facts suddenly becomes confirmation bias to support our suspicions. Suddenly, it's no longer important to know beyond a shadow of a doubt whether or not something is true, because simply to assume something is true is evidence enough to project judgement. This is something that is very prevalent in the age of social media, a time where speculative truth seems more valued than actual truth, and imo that's incredibly disheartening.
Zion could very well be out of shape, and he might not even be cleared to play before he gets in shape, but the whole obsession and fascination with his weight when it's something the nature of which we truly can not accurately measure at this moment in time, is just stupid and frankly disturbing.
What's the point of this? Not being critical cause I don't actually know what you're implying. I've read about that before, but what's the point of posting it exactly?
Last edited by Funcrusher; 11-17-2021 at 03:14 PM.
Politically speaking, like the 'Russian Dossier', huh?
What the actual ******** are you talking about? Speak english, weirdo
If you have a problem with English, may I suggest another language, my friend.
nah amigo. Enough with the stupid non sequiturs and childish pettiness. I don't know what you're point is. Make an actual fleshed out point or keep that dumb ******** to yourself, lol
Well this is kinda what I was speaking about, it's not just a single issue. You say there's still some resistance in Zion's ''camp''. Well, who is Zion's ''camp''? His family, the same family that have pushed back against the team when it comes to hiring Zion a team-based nutritionist and personal trainer at times, and who have argued that the family should be in charge of all of that stuff. I agree that the team should have some say in this - after all, as you said, it's Zion's job. But if he's being told one thing by David Griffin, a guy pretty much all of us acknowledge as a slimy weirdo, and another thing by his family who are the people who got him here as well as people he presumably loves and has good reason to believe are working in his best interests, then there's bound to be some difficulty in his head. It's not as easy as just jumping in with one group or the other.
As I said, if the issue is that Zion - as an individual - just doesn't care, then yes that's a problem that's with Zion that we can blame on him. But the minute you start looking at the factors surrounding him, from his personal life and upbringing, to his professional environment and experiences, the situation gets a lot less clear cut and it becomes very easy to see how things might go wrong for Zion, both in terms of his mental health and his physical planning.
Zion needs to see a mental health professional, would be my guess, and that's nothing to do with him being 'soft' as some other people might say - hell, more of us could probably benefit from speaking to someone who understands these things. Someone who can help him with what is undoubtedly elevated stress, but who can also support him in talking through any issues he might have with his family, as well as providing him some backup when it comes to speaking to the team. Someone who doesn't care about him as a basketball player or as a cash cow for the franchise, but who has interest in him as an individual dealing with difficult circumstances.
What he doesn't need is tools on the internet sniping and taking potshots, or even-more-overweight 50 year olds yucking it up on TV.
Nobody:
AISI: Let me make a deranged nonsensical analogy to politics because I am insecure about random internet people's partisan leanings
My dear BFF, I only agreed with your stated premise by pointing out a recent obvious case of 'rush to judgement' that went 'South'. But I understand that English is a difficult language to comprehend, so keep trying. I'm pulling for you, buddy; don't you know?
lmao. Just say what you have to say clearly, that's all fam. You know you were being facetious from the jump, because if your intention were as you've stated now, you would have elaborated on the cryptic nonsense you initially posted.
Nah, it was more like: Let me support my dear friend in his analysis on why accepting unproven assumptions is disheartening.Nobody:
AISI: Let me make a deranged nonsensical analogy to politics because I am insecure about random internet people's partisan leanings
There is nothing cryptic about my post at all, my friend, but I understand; English is a tough 'get'.
Anyways, it's all good buddy. This is a forum, I have no problem chopping it up with anyone, even trolls. One might say I'm addicted to discourse
We're both typing it so how hard can it be, really?
1. The definition of obesity is a BMI of > 30.0. This can be skewed for athletes who typically have large BMIs due to muscle mass, but Zion is too large to play 82+ games of NBA basketball yearly.
2. Zion has been injured for 4 years straight.
3. Zion’s weight routinely fluctuates
4. Zion obviously does not take care for his body good enough.
5. Zion hurts his team because of the above mentioned issues.
6. If Zion can’t take the criticism and do what it takes to be a professional athlete, we should trade him and let him become someone else’s problem.
7. Giving Zion a max contract with his unprofessional behavior and subsequent lack of availability due to injury will set this franchise back years. I say let him get heathy and in shape. If he continues to have issues, trade him.
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 11-18-2021 at 12:48 AM.
I think most of this is fair to say, but I do just want to highlight how ridiculous BMI can be, and how un-useful it can be.
Lebron James is 6'9 and listed as 240lbs. It's been speculated, and frankly, I would not be surprised if it were true, that at his absolute biggest musculature he weighed more like 265 or 270lbs. Let's just assume 240lbs is accurate, even though he's probably been heavier at times in his career.
At 6'9, 240lbs, Lebron James would have a BMI of about 26 and be listed as ''overweight''. At 265lbs, he'd have a BMI of about 28 and be listed as severely overweight.
I don't know any universe where Lebron James would be described as severely overweight, at any point in his career, by anyone. This is why for a lot of people, particularly elite athletes - as Darkhorse points out - BMI is kind of a dead metric.
Last edited by Pelicanidae; 11-17-2021 at 06:59 PM.
Agree with all points. If he can’t get his act together (and that act being his weight which has been causing injuries), let him be someone else’s “phenom”. Giving a guy like that a max contract is an article (about bad contracts) waiting to be written.
That is a slightly photoshopped picture taken at a bad angle. We will see him in a uniform soon enough. At the end of the day, the more we support him as a human being the easier it will be for him to enjoy being here and to avoid possible stress eating. Let's see his effort on the court before we pillage him.
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