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Thread: 2021 NBA Draft Day - 29th July

  1. #551
    All-Star SonOfNOLA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    If a pick is traded during the draft it's usually the case that the team they're traded to made the pick, it just has to be done via proxy because trades can't become official yet. If a pick gets traded during the draft, they were functionally drafted by the team they ended up with.
    Teams still make later trades for the rights of players well after the selections were made

    Point is most teams don’t have 2nd round pick players who accrued their initial first preseasons or first regular seasons with that team. The second round has always been hit or miss for any team

  2. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA View Post
    Teams still make later trades for the rights of players well after the selections were made

    Point is most teams don’t have 2nd round pick players who accrued their initial first preseasons or first regular seasons with that team. The second round has always been hit or miss for any team
    And the counter point is that 2nd round picks still have value and are poorly managed by poorly managed teams.

  3. #553
    The Franchise bustah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Aren't you one who asked for no spoliers?
    He or she just wanted to be the one who posted it

  4. #554
    All-Star SonOfNOLA's Avatar
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    Picks 31-39 should be a player who can develop into 6th-9th in the rotation. Picks 40-60 will have a couple bottom top 35 players who slide, but are mostly hit or miss development projects who usually end up being out of the NBA after a few seasons or even after the draft/summer league
    Last edited by SonOfNOLA; 07-30-2021 at 09:52 AM.

  5. #555
    I don't understand this resistance to wanting to draft 2nd round players in the deepest draft in like 5 years.

    We have had terrible depth issues the past two season. We do not need just talent. We need role players and to build a bench. You getting lucky with 1 of the 12 2nd picks. That is a huge cost savings and long term bench piece. We got a lot out of Jackson and Diallo and they weren't even good.

  6. #556
    All-Star SonOfNOLA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse985 View Post
    And the counter point is that 2nd round picks still have value and are poorly managed by poorly managed teams.
    Either most teams mismanage their 2nd round picks, or most 2nd round players are not consistent enough to be NBA caliber players. Good ball players but just not for the NBA. That many mismanaged players wouldn’t be available in the 2nd round if they had decent potential to become decent players.

    When there’s a lot of development already invested in three 1st round picks, who were chosen #8, #13, and #17 in the 2019-2020 drafts, and a elite player taken #1 in same time span who needs a real team around him fast, then 2nd round picks are just assets to create cap space for acquiring proven players in FA or trades.
    Last edited by SonOfNOLA; 07-30-2021 at 02:41 AM.

  7. #557
    From memory I few years back I analysed 2nd round picks that had any meaningful NBA seasons over a 5 or 6 year period and it was like 33%. I'm not worried about our draft, it was fine. Free Agency/how we use our cap is all that matters

  8. #558
    The Franchise bustah's Avatar
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    /thread

  9. #559
    All-Star SonOfNOLA's Avatar
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    We upgraded Center with Valanciunas. We added needed wing depth at pick no. 17. We created huge cap space in the same trade that upgraded Center and drafted wing depth from. Zion is already a top 10 caliber player going into his 3rd year. Ingram is an All-Star. And moving Bledsoe in the trade created significant roles for two young promising guards in NAW and Lewis, who either one or both will have breakout seasons this coming season.

    The trade for JV was a huge extension of the draft and set the tone for a promising upcoming FA with the cap space from it. I’m not sure how all of that is overlooked and the 2nd round of the draft is the focus. Something has to be criticized I guess since it’s the Pels FO

  10. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    ....I am saying is that even if sending a guy to the G League to develop only has a 0.000001% chance of ever providing you a single minute of NBA value, that's more than cash considerations will ever give you in any permutation, so if it doesn't cost you anything - and it doesn't - why not give it a spin when there are guys who clearly have tools left on the board? And you're saying ''well name an all-star who came from the G league''. Which is like, okay, I can't but that's also not the point I'm making so ????

    Pointless to continue.
    But that roll of a dice for a return that has a 0.000001% chance of amounting to anything (your number not mine) shouldn't just be measured against 'cash considerations' (you conveniently misrepresent the transactions). The future draft picks that are attached to a couple of those deals far outweighs the gamble on your longshot. You are not arguing the facts of what just occurred last night at all. The Pelicans, in a couple of instances, preserved assets (kicked them down the road) rather than gambling on a 0.000001% longshot (your number not mine). Why you are being disingenuous is baffling, though not surprising at all.

    Bottom Line: The value resulting from future draft picks attached to a couple of those transactions (specifically, trade value) far outweighs the benefits of taking a 0.000001% chance on a longshot (your number not mine).

    and...

    The use of a draft choice, any draft choice, has a cost.
    Last edited by As I See It; 07-30-2021 at 02:51 AM.

  11. #561
    All-Star SonOfNOLA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    But that roll of a dice for a return that has a 0.000001% chance of amounting to anything (your number not mine) shouldn't just be measured against 'cash considerations' (you conveniently misrepresent the transactions). The future draft picks that are attached to a couple of those deals far outweighs the gamble on your longshot. You are not arguing the facts of what just occurred last night at all. The Pelicans, in a couple of instances, preserved assets (kicked them down the road) rather than gambling on a 0.000001% longshot (your number not mine). Why you are being disingenuous is baffling, though not surprising at all.

    Bottom Line: The value resulting from future draft picks attached to a couple of those transactions (specifically, trade value) far outweighs the benefits of taking a 0.000001% chance on a longshot (your number not mine).

    and...

    The use of a draft choice has a cost.

    Seeing “cash considerations” must be reminding them of decision making of Dell Demps and Jeff Bowers, and just disregard who’s on the roster. Otherwise, it’s a reasonable move for a team who potentially has around $40 million in cap space, for the first time in forever, to sign a star FA guard to pair with our young elite frontcourt and young star-upside backcourt.

  12. #562
    If we start the season with BI, Naji, Trey, Hart and Herb that is easily the most depths this franchise has probably ever had at the 3. Now we just need a 1

  13. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I don't understand this resistance to wanting to draft 2nd round players in the deepest draft in like 5 years.

    We have had terrible depth issues the past two season. We do not need just talent. We need role players and to build a bench. You getting lucky with 1 of the 12 2nd picks. That is a huge cost savings and long term bench piece. We got a lot out of Jackson and Diallo and they weren't even good.
    Clearly the Pels scouting department disagrees that this is the deepest draft in 5 years. they just took two upper classmen that averaged 11 ppg and would have been late first/ second round pick respectively in any year.

    If this draft proves anything its that teams follow their scouting department and take a shot in the dark. Thats all you can do. Maybe in a future year where the Pelicans like a guy in the mid-late 2nd they can can trade back in with cash. OKC magic tricked away more picks than the Pelicans did. For 16 they got two fake first rounders. It is what it is. Nobody will complain if the 2guys the Pelicans actually did take end up being the BPA guys.

  14. #564
    Also get the feeling we missed out big time not getting Davion Mitchell, just think hes got star swag and game.

  15. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by bustah View Post
    He or she just wanted to be the one who posted it
    The pick was already announced. Get some better streaming

  16. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Aren't you one who asked for no spoliers?
    The pick was already announced . Someone got slow streaming. Get rid of ATT.

  17. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Fisher said the other day that the team was targeting players from the area to fill out the G League team in Alabama, and then in the post-draft presser Trajan kept talking about how Herb Jones comes from only 2.5 hours away. As if that matters.
    I think it was actually Jake


  18. #568
    Dosunmu will also be a quality NBA player, which we should have taken at 35.

  19. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    I think it was actually Jake

    Fair enough
    Basketball.

  20. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    Dosunmu will also be a quality NBA player, which we should have taken at 35.
    I feel like he'll probably get some productive minutes at some point but I don't buy him as a ''quality'' NBA player - which implies rotation, to me - and I think there were several obvious picks left on the board better than Dosunmu.

  21. #571
    Guess it could be worse. Are we any close to getting Beal out of there? Think the Wizards will take Hayes since they like garbage?


  22. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I don't understand this resistance to wanting to draft 2nd round players in the deepest draft in like 5 years.

    We have had terrible depth issues the past two season. We do not need just talent. We need role players and to build a bench. You getting lucky with 1 of the 12 2nd picks. That is a huge cost savings and long term bench piece. We got a lot out of Jackson and Diallo and they weren't even good.
    Pelicans have currently 8? players on the roster that are on rookie deals, and this doesn't include players who are just at the end of their rookie deal looking for bigger contracts like Lonzo and Hart. Trading late picks at this point for either future picks or for veterans would usually be preferable than to end up with basically the entire roster under the age of 23ish.

    That being said, I disagree completely with trading picks for cash. It's pure greed from the owner. Also shows the huge disparity in the league between small market and big market teams. The Warriors are in such a high cost of living area that so long as their team is competitive, they can be at the complete maximum cap and maximum luxury tax, and still be profitable.

  23. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by bradael View Post
    That being said, I disagree completely with trading picks for cash. It's pure greed from the owner. Also shows the huge disparity in the league between small market and big market teams. The Warriors are in such a high cost of living area that so long as their team is competitive, they can be at the complete maximum cap and maximum luxury tax, and still be profitable.
    That's my major issue. Like sure, I would have liked it if you had drafted a player that I believe in, but if you aren't going to do that then either use the pick in a larger deal or trade it for a future one. Kick the can down the road. Don't just sell it for cash.

    As mentioned before - not sure why this is apparently a contentious position - but cash considerations have never won even a single possession in the NBA, on any level, for any team.

  24. #574
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    The pick was already announced . Someone got slow streaming. Get rid of ATT.
    No, based on the comments well after your post, it has not been announced on TV.

  25. #575
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    Also get the feeling we missed out big time not getting Davion Mitchell, just think hes got star swag and game.
    He was picked 9th, so we would not have had a shot at him even had we not made the trade.

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