2021 NBA Draft Day - 29th July

[Pelicanidae]

Name some all-stars that developed in the G League.

I think that's kind of a false limit, tbh. I don't think a player has to become an all-star to be productive and valuable to a team. And there have been plenty of players who were drafted, did a stint in the G League (or D League, as was) and came back to be various levels of productive.

These include Danny Green, who played 20 games for the Cavs his rookie season before getting waived and picked up by the Spurs, who sent him to the D League for several months. Hassan Whiteside, also, who played dozens and dozens of games in the G League. Robert Covington was a UDFA who got picked up by Houston and then spent basically the entire rookie year in the D League.

Other names include Derrick Jones, Spencer Dinwiddie, Ish Smith, Seth Curry, Dwayne Dedmon, Gerald Green, Justin Holiday, and Anthony Tolliver.

[Pelicanidae]

Huh?

Fisher said the other day that the team was targeting players from the area to fill out the G League team in Alabama, and then in the post-draft presser Trajan kept talking about how Herb Jones comes from only 2.5 hours away. As if that matters.

[msusousaphone]

I think that's kind of a false limit, tbh. I don't think a player has to become an all-star to be productive and valuable to a team. And there have been plenty of players who were drafted, did a stint in the G League (or D League, as was) and came back to be various levels of productive.

These include Danny Green, who played 20 games for the Cavs his rookie season before getting waived and picked up by the Spurs, who sent him to the D League for several months. Hassan Whiteside, also, who played dozens and dozens of games in the G League. Robert Covington was a UDFA who got picked up by Houston and then spent basically the entire rookie year in the D League.

Other names include Derrick Jones, Spencer Dinwiddie, Ish Smith, Seth Curry, Dwayne Dedmon, Gerald Green, Justin Holiday, and Anthony Tolliver.

Two fallacies.

1) You moved the goal posts by naming a player who played 20 games regular season in the NBA to start. Anyone we drafted in those spots wouldn't be doing that. Danny Green had more space on his team for coaching than we currently have.

2) You named players that were waived and then picked up by other teams......so.....take a step back and understand that you are getting upset that we didn't draft the quality of player that a team would waive while they journeyed around before finding a spot.

[Sleeper]

Fisher said the other day that the team was targeting players from the area to fill out the G League team in Alabama, and then in the post-draft presser Trajan kept talking about how Herb Jones comes from only 2.5 hours away. As if that matters.

Yeah saw that Trajan said that in interview. Is what it is. Makes me feel better they don?t expect him in rotation soon though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pelicanidae]

Two fallacies.

1) You moved the goal posts by naming a player who played 20 games regular season in the NBA to start. Anyone drafted wouldn't be doing that. Danny Green had more space on his team for coaching than we currently have.

2) You named players that were waived and then picked up by other teams......so.....take a step back and understand that you are getting upset that we didn't draft the quality of player that a team would waive while they journeyed around before finding a spot.

I mean, if we're at the point of splitting hairs where you go ''ah! They didn't really develop in the G League, they played 20 NBA games so it wouldn't be the same!'' as if playing 20 games (a grand total of 115 minutes!) meaningfully kickstarted his growth in such a way that you can't claim his development as occuring in the G League, then the conversation isn't worth having. If you set the criteria as ''these players must have been drafted, not played a single minute on an NBA team at all, then gone immediately to the G League where they must have grown into all-stars'' then sure, there are no such players that I can name but I also think that's a pretty pointless and purposefully opaque way of looking at things.

The point is, people can go to the G League and improve, show they have something, and then come back up to the league and be solid players. You may think that's unlikely to happen and that's fine, but I promise you it's more likely than that Cash Considerations will ever rack up a win share.

[Impose]

So, where we stand kinda looks like:

Jonas V / Hayes
Zion / Gabriel
Ingram / Murphy III
NAW / Marshall
Kira / ???

Restricted FA's - Lonzo and Hart

I'm not a huge Lowry fan, and our defense is very suspect. Lets hope we dont strike out in FA.

[PELICANSFAN]

Congrats to @AlvaradoJose15 for your two way contract with the New Orleans Pelicans your dreams are coming true

— Cory Mauldin (@ATL_sports4life) July 30, 2021

[AusPel]

Why has no one signed Vrenz Withbenefits?

[msusousaphone]

I mean, if we're at the point of splitting hairs where you go ''ah! They didn't really develop in the G League, they played 20 NBA games so it wouldn't be the same!'' as if playing 20 games (a grand total of 115 minutes!) meaningfully kickstarted his growth in such a way that you can't claim his development as occuring in the G League, then the conversation isn't worth having. If you set the criteria as ''these players must have been drafted, not played a single minute on an NBA team at all, then gone immediately to the G League where they must have grown into all-stars'' then sure, there are no such players that I can name but I also think that's a pretty pointless and purposefully opaque way of looking at things.

The point is, people can go to the G League and improve, show they have something, and then come back up to the league and be solid players. You may think that's unlikely to happen and that's fine, but I promise you it's more likely than that Cash Considerations will ever rack up a win share.

Yeah. But again, anyone that you find to support your point is also going to be a journeyman who traveled around.

Seth Curry. Quinn Cook. Y'all are getting upset that we didn't draft guys that only make teams after they travel around the league. Heck. It's more likely these guys will end up filling out our roster in a few years if we let other teams draft and develop them because they won't have space to develop on this roster.

[Pelicanidae]

Yeah. But again, anyone that you find to support your point is also going to be a journeyman who traveled around.

Seth Curry. Quinn Cook. Y'all are getting upset that we didn't draft guys that only make teams after they travel around the league. Heck. It's more likely these guys will end up filling out our roster in a few years if we let other teams draft and develop them because they won't have space to develop on this roster.

Like I said, not worth the conversation because all I am saying is that even if sending a guy to the G League to develop only has a 0.000001% chance of ever providing you a single minute of NBA value, that's more than cash considerations will ever give you in any permutation, so if it doesn't cost you anything - and it doesn't - why not give it a spin when there are guys who clearly have tools left on the board? And you're saying ''well name an all-star who came from the G league''. Which is like, okay, I can't but that's also not the point I'm making so ????

Pointless to continue.

[DroopyDawg]

Why has no one signed Vrenz Withbenefits?

Well-played sir

[SonOfNOLA]

Are there multiple 2nd round picks from the same draft, who developed into a star or significant contributor for the same team that drafted them in the 2nd round, every year from the draft?


Nikola Jokic was 2014, and Khris Middleton and Draymond Green were 2012. Has there been 2nd round picks like them since then each year?


Most NBA 2nd round picks, who stay on their drafted team, are end of bench depth or G-league careers

[fullcourtpress]

a few people have joked about Herb being a nobody. Dude was SEC Player of the Year and Defensive POY.

Gotta respect that. He's better than Wes Iwundo and Weynen Gabriel thats a fact

[Taker597]

Are there multiple 2nd round picks from the same draft, who developed into a star or significant contributor for the same team that drafted them in the 2nd round, every year from the draft?


Nikola Jokic was 2014, and Khris Middleton and Draymond Green were 2012. Has there been 2nd round picks like them since then each year?


Most NBA 2nd round picks, who stay on their drafted team, are end of bench depth or G-league careers

Like what's the point of drafting nonlottory players.

Unless you really have a great roster set. A terrible team with no depth has little business trying to trade away picks year after year not getting best players possible. even if they get cut.


We did this last year and this year. We live in this myth in our FO where young teams don't make the playoffs, but they do. So, why does it hurt to try?

[Taker597]

Nah. Imma drag it out.

Because, you're not seeing the point. These players don't typically stay with the teams that draft them AND we currently don't have the space to develop them......that or their development would take away from players we already have.

Cash is better.

We have a G league team. There is plenty of space to develop them.

[SonOfNOLA]

Like what's the point of drafting nonlottory players.

Unless you really have a great roster set. A terrible team with no depth has little business trying to trade away picks year after year not getting best players possible. even if they get cut.


We did this last year and this year. We live in this myth in our FO where young teams don't make the playoffs, but they do. So, why does it hurt to try?

Look at the benches of the Lakers or Bucks. Between the two only the Bucks have their team-drafted 2nd round pick from the last 5 years still on the bench, or even on the team. And that’s the Bucks’ 2020 draft pick Jordan Nwora, who averaged like 6 mpg in a couples games last season.

Teams hope to find a player in the 2nd round that can be developed into a contributor, but there’s no expectation from any team that it’ll happen in the 2nd round

[Pelicanidae]

Are there multiple 2nd round picks from the same draft, who developed into a star or significant contributor for the same team that drafted them in the 2nd round, every year from the draft?


Nikola Jokic was 2014, and Khris Middleton and Draymond Green were 2012. Has there been 2nd round picks like them since then each year?


Most NBA 2nd round picks, who stay on their drafted team, are end of bench depth or G-league careers

Malcolm Brogdon, who half of this board is clamouring for us to trade for, was a 2nd round pick. Georges Niang came out of that same 2nd round.

Xavier Tillman was a second round pick last year and was one of the best defensive bigs in the NBA last season.

Terrence Mann was a 2nd rounder in 2019, he just wrapped a season playing 20 mpg for the Clippers and averaging 51/42/83 splits

Jalen Brunson, Devonte Graham, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, De'Anthony Melton, and Shake Milton all came from the 2018 second round and they're all legit rotation players

Monte Morris came out of the 2nd the year before that.

The year before that, Richaun Holmes, Pat Connaughton, Montrezl Harrell, and Josh Richardson all went 2nd round.

There are not ''multiple 2nd round picks who develop into a star for the same team that drafted them'' but there are plenty of second rounders over the last decade who have been really good and yes, some of them have provided value for the team that drafted them (Brogdon, Mann, Tillman, Robinson, Melton, Graham, Morris etc).

Again this isn't me saying you're guaranteed a player in the second round. Hell, you're not guaranteed a real player at #2 in the draft (read: Darko Milicic). But if there's someone there with some kind of evident skill and you have a G League team you can send them to (that is: it takes up NONE of your minutes or coaching time on the main roster) and you already have the 2nd round pick so it doesn't cost you anything, why not take a flyer on one or two of them?

Nobody is saying that's going to magically fill out the roster with Nikola Jokic, but hey you know what, I wouldnt mind a Monte Morris and what do you have to lose?

[Darkhorse985]

Yup, I'm with it.

Look at the benches of the Lakers or Bucks. Between the two only the Bucks have their team-drafted 2nd round pick from the last 5 years still on the bench, or even on the team. And that’s the Bucks’ 2020 draft pick Jordan Nwora, who averaged like 6 mpg in a couples games last season.

Teams hope to find a player in the 2nd round that can be developed into a contributor, but there’s no expectation from any team that it’ll happen in the 2nd round

You forget Horton-Tucker, home grown 2nd round pick from the Lakers in your poor argument.

[Darkhorse985]

Malcolm Brogdon, who half of this board is clamouring for us to trade for, was a 2nd round pick. Georges Niang came out of that same 2nd round.

Xavier Tillman was a second round pick last year and was one of the best defensive bigs in the NBA last season.

Terrence Mann was a 2nd rounder in 2019, he just wrapped a season playing 20 mpg for the Clippers and averaging 51/42/83 splits

Jalen Brunson, Devonte Graham, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, De'Anthony Melton, and Shake Milton all came from the 2018 second round and they're all legit rotation players

Monte Morris came out of the 2nd the year before that.

The year before that, Richaun Holmes, Pat Connaughton, Montrezl Harrell, and Josh Richardson all went 2nd round.

There are not ''multiple 2nd round picks who develop into a star for the same team that drafted them'' but there are plenty of second rounders over the last decade who have been really good and yes, some of them have provided value for the team that drafted them (Brogdon, Mann, Tillman, Robinson, Melton, Graham, Morris etc).

Again this isn't me saying you're guaranteed a player in the second round. Hell, you're not guaranteed a real player at #2 in the draft (read: Darko Milicic). But if there's someone there with some kind of evident skill and you have a G League team you can send them to (that is: it takes up NONE of your minutes or coaching time on the main roster) and you already have the 2nd round pick so it doesn't cost you anything, why not take a flyer on one or two of them?

Nobody is saying that's going to magically fill out the roster with Nikola Jokic, but hey you know what, I wouldnt mind a Monte Morris and what do you have to lose?

I agree with you. The Pels are nowhere near a complete team, and they have their own G league team to develop talent. We need as many lottery tickets as possible. Cash considerations don?t buy wins.

[msusousaphone]

We have a G league team. There is plenty of space to develop them.

OMG

Guys.

Look at a list of G League players. They literally all change teams.

Like. For real. One of you guys name some G League players who were drafted by a team, developed in the G League, and then went on to play a significant role with the same team that drafted them?

Y'all are upset we didn't draft journeymen! Lol

[Drudkh_]

We have a G league team. There is plenty of space to develop them.

Having a G-league team is great and all but even if they do supposedly develop within that squad what are the odds of them ever receiving any type of meaningful minutes in the seniors? Realistically what is the end goal of these picks, as a trade asset they lose all value when that pick is taken unless you are lucky enough to strike gold.

Do we also not already have enough players who need development in guys like NAW, Lewis, Hayes, Didi, Herb etc. Why do need to bring in more projects that have a miniscule chance of ever becoming anything. You probably have a better chance developing some g-league kid on a two way during the season, doing that you at least get a chance to evaluate their play in a competetion which is a step above college.

It also seems like a common belief that using these 2nd round picks have zero repurcusions. I'm no clairvoyant but I'm sure the trades we made tonight line us up for something way more significant in the nearby future. At least it will be more impactful then those traded players will ever become. Happy to be wrong on this but history has generally not played out in that way.

[SonOfNOLA]

Malcolm Brogdon, who half of this board is clamouring for us to trade for, was a 2nd round pick. Georges Niang came out of that same 2nd round.

Xavier Tillman was a second round pick last year and was one of the best defensive bigs in the NBA last season.

Terrence Mann was a 2nd rounder in 2019, he just wrapped a season playing 20 mpg for the Clippers and averaging 51/42/83 splits

Jalen Brunson, Devonte Graham, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, De'Anthony Melton, and Shake Milton all came from the 2018 second round and they're all legit rotation players

Monte Morris came out of the 2nd the year before that.

The year before that, Richaun Holmes, Pat Connaughton, Montrezl Harrell, and Josh Richardson all went 2nd round.

There are not ''multiple 2nd round picks who develop into a star for the same team that drafted them'' but there are plenty of second rounders over the last decade who have been really good and yes, some of them have provided value for the team that drafted them (Brogdon, Mann, Tillman, Robinson, Melton, Graham, Morris etc).

Again this isn't me saying you're guaranteed a player in the second round. Hell, you're not guaranteed a real player at #2 in the draft (read: Darko Milicic). But if there's someone there with some kind of evident skill and you have a G League team you can send them to (that is: it takes up NONE of your minutes or coaching time on the main roster) and you already have the 2nd round pick so it doesn't cost you anything, why not take a flyer on one or two of them?

Nobody is saying that's going to magically fill out the roster with Nikola Jokic, but hey you know what, I wouldnt mind a Monte Morris and what do you have to lose?

I forgot about Malcolm Brogdon in 2016. So since 2016, there hasn’t been any stars from the 2nd round

I was saying 2nd round significant players on the same teams that drafted them. Usually they’re traded later in the draft or sign with another team then become a good player. I know some of the players you mentioned are still on their teams. 90% of the 2nd round doesn't amount to the 2nd rounders who does become good.

Ideally, all draft picks should be utilized on players that can make the roster and see playing time. But we shouldn’t be relying on making sure the 2nd round pick is knock out of the park selection when there’s top 10-20 picks on the team from the last few seasons who are suppose to be ascending into the hype that’s being put on making good 2nd round selections

[SonOfNOLA]

You forget Horton-Tucker, home grown 2nd round pick from the Lakers in your poor argument.

In your poor response, Horton-Tucker was drafted by the Magic then later traded to the Lakers during the draft so he’s not their original pick

[Pelicanidae]

In your poor response, Horton-Tucker was drafted by the Magic then later traded to the Lakers during the draft so he’s not their original pick

If a pick is traded during the draft it's usually the case that the team they're traded to made the pick, it just has to be done via proxy because trades can't become official yet. If a pick gets traded during the draft, they were functionally drafted by the team they ended up with.

[Darkhorse985]

In your poor response, Horton-Tucker was drafted by the Magic then later traded to the Lakers during the draft so he’s not their original pick

Lol, so was he purchased with cash considerations? (The Magic actually received 2.2 million and a 2020 Lakers 2nd.)

So, again, nice example…