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Thread: MAJOR TRADE: Pelicans / Grizzlies

  1. #226
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    2nds have such a poor track record (non-lottery 1sts only are marginally better), and have such little value among NBA FOs, there was a conversation on radio the other day on if the NBA should just get rid of the 2nd round.

    I think 27 of 30 NBA teams have all traded their original 2nd round pick this year.
    And yet that is much of their value. They assist in making trades (as compensation has to be given and received) and the NBA has many contributors who were 2nd round picks.

  2. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    And yet that is much of their value. They assist in making trades (as compensation has to be given and received) and the NBA has many contributors who were 2nd round picks.
    Again we have 7 over the next 2 seasons

  3. #228
    And by my count, 17 teams have 2nd round picks this year. Meaning 13 have none.

    There are many forms of compensation for trades. Including the TPE for uneven trades if one team has the cap room. Relatively speaking, 2nds are low on that list.

    Here is a piece someone wrote on the subject. Doesn't go as deep as others I've read but close enough.

    https://sportsanalytics.berkeley.edu...-treasure.html
    Last edited by luckyman; 07-27-2021 at 11:08 PM.

  4. #229
    Yes if we could add Lowry and Robinson. If we were to add a point guard and wing than I would look to add a power forward in the draft. So Garuba would make the most sense I guess. It really depends on how we feel about Naji, Iwundu, & Didi going forward as backups. I?m not the biggest Lowry fan, but he would make a huge difference to this team. Duncan Robinson would be a huge get if that could happen as well.

    C: Jonas/Hayes
    PF: Zion/Garuba
    SF: BI/Naji/Iwundu
    SG: Robinson/NAW/Didi
    PG: Lowry/Kira

    That would be a sick lineup for next year IMO. But since the draft is before free agency it’s kind of hard to draft based off that. But if we like what we have in Naji, Iwundu, & Didi than it makes since to add a 4. Backup 4 was our achilles heal(besides Bledsoe & Ball’s erratic play lol) until we got an enforcer in James Johnson. We should be solid at point guard with Kira, NAW, & whoever we add or keep Lonzo in free agency.
    Last edited by DaPelFromHell; 07-28-2021 at 06:58 AM.

  5. #230
    Hi Ilove JV this is your Friend lions from the grizzlies message board ,Hate to see JV leave great double /double machine but in the long run this should Help our Grizzlies get to that next Level. Happy to see your OK and looking forward to see JV have a GREAT season

  6. #231
    Y'know, I'm glad for the little Pels/Grizz rivalry that's sprung up over the last few years. It's a really healthy kind of competition imo.

    Like, we generally want them to do well (except when they play us), they have a likable team, and generally speaking they want us to do well (except against them). The media constantly tries to pit Ja and Zion against each other but every time the two interact, it's a friendly rivalry and Ja is constantly supporting Zion on twitter whenever anything comes up.

    It's nice.
    Basketball.

  7. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Do you think SGA turns us into a championship contender? Serious question.
    Honestly Dae, yes. Yes I do. Doubt we're getting SGA even if he ends up on the market though.

    (had to emerge from my unceremonious hiding place to just say that )

  8. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Funcrusher View Post
    Honestly Dae, yes. Yes I do. Doubt we're getting SGA even if he ends up on the market though.

    (had to emerge from my unceremonious hiding place to just say that )
    Yeah I disagree. I think shy of a top 5 player slotting into the team, we're more than one step away from a ring.

  9. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Yeah I disagree. I think shy of a top 5 player slotting into the team, we're more than one step away from a ring.
    Nah, I should've been clearer. This year? Likely not. In the next 2-4 year window? Absolutely IMO. It's probably not a comp that holds up under interrogation, but dammit if SGA on this team doesn't make me think of that up and coming OKC 3 squad. At a certain point (provided we keep all three in this hypothetical) they just become too good to beat 4 times in a 7 game playoff series.

  10. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Funcrusher View Post
    Nah, I should've been clearer. This year? Likely not. In the next 2-4 year window? Absolutely IMO. It's probably not a comp that holds up under interrogation, but dammit if SGA on this team doesn't make me think of that up and coming OKC 3 squad. At a certain point (provided we keep all three in this hypothetical) they just become too good to beat 4 times in a 7 game playoff series.
    My issue with acquiring SGA is that it would make adding those additional pieces over the next few years very difficult, because it would mean that by the end of the year (assuming Zion takes an extension and SGA gets a max) we'd essentially have 3 max contracts on the books. Once you're in that position, you're basically capped out every year and making those extra moves becomes more difficult. Especially because the traditional way of getting around that is trading picks and obtaining ring-chasers for cheap but

    1) Acquiring SGA likely costs us the majority of our pick hoard for the next 4/5 years, if not all of it
    2) We've never really been historically successful in the FA market

    Maybe have Zion/SGA/Ingram as a star trio would change that.

    In the event that we're doing the SGA thing (which, again, long shots and hypotheticals here) it would have to be in the sort of scenario that Pelafanatic outlines in the other thread where we take advantage of his small contract this year to pile in talent now and hope to seriously contend in the next 2 years. Cause if you acquire him and then sit pretty as if that's enough, by the end of next year you'll find that suddenly your hands are very very tied.

  11. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    My issue with acquiring SGA is that it would make adding those additional pieces over the next few years very difficult, because it would mean that by the end of the year (assuming Zion takes an extension and SGA gets a max) we'd essentially have 3 max contracts on the books. Once you're in that position, you're basically capped out every year and making those extra moves becomes more difficult. Especially because the traditional way of getting around that is trading picks and obtaining ring-chasers for cheap but

    1) Acquiring SGA likely costs us the majority of our pick hoard for the next 4/5 years, if not all of it
    2) We've never really been historically successful in the FA market

    Maybe have Zion/SGA/Ingram as a star trio would change that.

    In the event that we're doing the SGA thing (which, again, long shots and hypotheticals here) it would have to be in the sort of scenario that Pelafanatic outlines in the other thread where we take advantage of his small contract this year to pile in talent now and hope to seriously contend in the next 2 years. Cause if you acquire him and then sit pretty as if that's enough, by the end of next year you'll find that suddenly your hands are very very tied.
    Zion/SGA/BI instantly signals it's lux tax time

    That's a ship big three

  12. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Zion/SGA/BI instantly signals it's lux tax time

    That's a ship big three
    Mhmm, which is why I'm not quite as ''100% just do it, don't ask questions'' as some other people are.

    I'm in the ''SGA is really great but he alone doesn't make us into a contender therefore don't give up the world for him unless you have other ways to improve the team locked in''.

    The situation Pelafanatic outlined in the other thread was a situation that ended up with SGA, but also potentially Lowry and Ingles.

    You lose Bledsoe, Adams, Hart, and potentially someone like Lonzo or Kira (have to assume probably Kira would be required in the SGA move) and gain Lowry, SGA, Ingles, and Valanciunas and yeah I think that's much more in line with a team that can make a serious playoff run next year. A competitive second round team who, if they get lucky, could even make conference finals. By comparison, I feel like just adding SGA would make us a playoff team but probably a first round exit assuming nothing else gets added.

  13. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    My issue with acquiring SGA is that it would make adding those additional pieces over the next few years very difficult, because it would mean that by the end of the year (assuming Zion takes an extension and SGA gets a max) we'd essentially have 3 max contracts on the books. Once you're in that position, you're basically capped out every year and making those extra moves becomes more difficult. Especially because the traditional way of getting around that is trading picks and obtaining ring-chasers for cheap but

    1) Acquiring SGA likely costs us the majority of our pick hoard for the next 4/5 years, if not all of it
    2) We've never really been historically successful in the FA market

    Maybe have Zion/SGA/Ingram as a star trio would change that.

    In the event that we're doing the SGA thing (which, again, long shots and hypotheticals here) it would have to be in the sort of scenario that Pelafanatic outlines in the other thread where we take advantage of his small contract this year to pile in talent now and hope to seriously contend in the next 2 years. Cause if you acquire him and then sit pretty as if that's enough, by the end of next year you'll find that suddenly your hands are very very tied.
    I don't think you would stuck necessarily. You still have BI to move if the pieces don't completely fit. It's not like any of Zion, BI, or SGA would depreciate in value barring a major injury, so they could all be moved for a haul if necessary. You would also have Lowry on what would hopefully be a fake 30 mil 3rd year to move in this scenario in order to add talent eventually.

  14. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    My issue with acquiring SGA is that it would make adding those additional pieces over the next few years very difficult, because it would mean that by the end of the year (assuming Zion takes an extension and SGA gets a max) we'd essentially have 3 max contracts on the books. Once you're in that position, you're basically capped out every year and making those extra moves becomes more difficult. Especially because the traditional way of getting around that is trading picks and obtaining ring-chasers for cheap but

    1) Acquiring SGA likely costs us the majority of our pick hoard for the next 4/5 years, if not all of it
    2) We've never really been historically successful in the FA market

    Maybe have Zion/SGA/Ingram as a star trio would change that.

    In the event that we're doing the SGA thing (which, again, long shots and hypotheticals here) it would have to be in the sort of scenario that Pelafanatic outlines in the other thread where we take advantage of his small contract this year to pile in talent now and hope to seriously contend in the next 2 years. Cause if you acquire him and then sit pretty as if that's enough, by the end of next year you'll find that suddenly your hands are very very tied.
    Yeah, that's a fair point. And that makes me wonder if that's something Griff had in the back of his mind as far getting out of Adam's/Bled's contracts. If we make a run at SGA now, do we clear as much cap as possible to stockpile assets for an incoming run at a chip? Because that would be a major 3D chess move if so and Im convinced it had to have at least crossed his mind when he worked the deal with MEM. Though that potentially goes against his own mantra of "sustainable winning," but maybe having the magnifying glass put on him this offseason as a POBO has made him throw all that stuff to the wind

  15. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    I don't think you would stuck necessarily. You still have BI to move if the pieces don't completely fit. It's not like any of Zion, BI, or SGA would depreciate in value barring a major injury, so they could all be moved for a haul if necessary. You would also have Lowry on what would hopefully be a fake 30 mil 3rd year to move in this scenario in order to add talent eventually.
    I'm not presuming the acquisition of Lowry in that post: that kind of thing fits into the scenario I was discussing at the very end where you take advantage of the fact that SGA's current deal is tiny in order to pile the talent in early. But you'd have to be confident that you can do that before making the trade.

    You're right in that you're not completely stuck, you can always trade BI or even move SGA on later, but that's kind of my point. If you can't make that team contend then you have to dismantle it at least somewhat and start again with trying to find the right auxiliary pieces, which puts you essentially just in the position you started: two all-star starters, some pieces you got from trading another all-star calibre player, hitting the draft and trade market. You're just re-setting the process but with Zion another 2, 3, maybe 4 years older and your time run out.

    Trade for SGA, sure. I love him and I think he was very probably a top 20 or 25 player last year - one of the best young guards in the league. But only commit massive resources to that trade if you're at least reasonably confident that you can improve the team on top of that as well. Just getting him isn't enough imo.

  16. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Funcrusher View Post
    Yeah, that's a fair point. And that makes me wonder if that's something Griff had in the back of his mind as far getting out of Adam's/Bled's contracts. If we make a run at SGA now, do we clear as much cap as possible to stockpile assets for an incoming run at a chip? Because that would be a major 3D chess move if so and Im convinced it had to have at least crossed his mind when he worked the deal with MEM. Though that potentially goes against his own mantra of "sustainable winning," but maybe having the magnifying glass put on him this offseason as a POBO has made him throw all that stuff to the wind
    If there is a kind of under the table handshake agreement for Lowry in place, or Griff is super confident he can finagle Ingles as well (or both of those things) then I'm much more happy with. SGA's contract is only about $6m for this upcoming year so you can add stuff now that would continue on past his extension date. Add Lowry on a 3 year, add Ingles and you'd have his Bird Rights, etc. It's just dependent on how you do it that matters to me.

    In a vacuum yep, I love SGA and he's great.

  17. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I'm not presuming the acquisition of Lowry in that post: that kind of thing fits into the scenario I was discussing at the very end where you take advantage of the fact that SGA's current deal is tiny in order to pile the talent in early. But you'd have to be confident that you can do that before making the trade.

    You're right in that you're not completely stuck, you can always trade BI or even move SGA on later, but that's kind of my point. If you can't make that team contend then you have to dismantle it at least somewhat and start again with trying to find the right auxiliary pieces, which puts you essentially just in the position you started: two all-star starters, some pieces you got from trading another all-star calibre player, hitting the draft and trade market. You're just re-setting the process but with Zion another 2, 3, maybe 4 years older and your time run out.

    Trade for SGA, sure. I love him and I think he was very probably a top 20 or 25 player last year - one of the best young guards in the league. But only commit massive resources to that trade if you're at least reasonably confident that you can improve the team on top of that as well. Just getting him isn't enough imo.
    It locks Zion in for another 5-6 years, though, which is obviously the most important piece to the puzzle

  18. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    I don't think you would stuck necessarily. You still have BI to move if the pieces don't completely fit. It's not like any of Zion, BI, or SGA would depreciate in value barring a major injury, so they could all be moved for a haul if necessary. You would also have Lowry on what would hopefully be a fake 30 mil 3rd year to move in this scenario in order to add talent eventually.
    Yeah, but that kinda makes his argument though (and yours too). If we're lucky enough to make a run at Shai this year then we have to be serious about going all in with this team, both for the short and long term. We'd have to capitalize on our cap space this year before we're forced to max SGA going forward, we ride with the core we forge now for the next couple of years, and hopefully best case scenario after that we can move Lowry/BI/whatever win now piece we acquired this year for a nice haul of picks/players. That kind of potential retool wouldn't be possible though if we didn't prepare for that eventuality now.

  19. #244
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! donato's Avatar
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    The dream!

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