If it comes at the expense of Ingram, I think I'd rather pursue McCollum.
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If it comes at the expense of Ingram, I think I'd rather pursue McCollum.
I agree with this. I only like the trade if it is centered around Ingram and 10. Of course we need Bledsoe or Adams to go out for salaries to somewhat match.Originally Posted by Eman5805
What about Ingram, Bledsoe, 10, and 3 additional 1sts for Lillard and Covington?
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Yea, again, it's all relative. Can our offer beat out the next. He won't have the leverage to demand a specific location. I personally believe the Pels would be willing to part with just about anything outside of Zion in order to obtain Lillard. I'm super interested to see how the league values Ingram in these conversations.
I'm not arguing that Ingram is better than anyone but the rest of the team by wide margin.
It's not Ingram > Lillard
It's Ingram >>>> Ball & The Goon Squad
It's Ingram, Zion, Lillard, >>> Zion, Lillard & MLE moves
I'm not sure you're getting Lillard without BI, that's the point. If we could keep BI in these hypotheticals, we would.
How do you accomplish that though?
We got 8 picks, Kira Lewis. Ball Sign and Trade
make it happen.
Tough to do if Simmons, Jaylen Brown, or the #2 pick are on the table though
Kira holds very little value in a trade for a star. S&T Ball could be difficult given he would have to agree to sign there (and we would be unable to trade #10 with him as free agency opens up after the draft). Even with that, plenty of teams could easily beat that deal.
It also depends on what Portland wants to do as well. If they want a complete rebuild they may be interested in picks more than players. Especially flawed players like Simmons. Brown would be nice but what else do the Celtics have to offer and does Portland think that deal gets them where they want to be?
Edited to add: Ingram will be traded because every player I use as my avatar gets traded apparently...
He just shut it down. Says he just wants to make it clear he wants changes but expects to be in a Blazer uniform next season.
It was sort of shut down, the comments Dame made certainly don't make me feel like this is the last we have heard of this. Still feels like the door is open for a move to be made.
I'm also curious to hear from others with Dame just turning 31 realistically how many more years does he have left in the tank performing at an elite level? I personally feel like you get 2 maybe at best 3 years where he is still the mainly the same guy we have seen over the last 4-5 years, but realistically his peak is or has already come to an end. Also by throwing everything including the kitchen sink in a trade at Dame I'm not sure how confident I am with the org putting together a winning roster but yeah I understand these would be questions you would ask after getting him. From my view I could see us falling into a Portland like scenario (the irony) where our starting 5 excels but our bench/depth being a major issue coupled with being one key injury away from mediocrity (zion or dame going down).
Short term yeah I would love him on the team, Dame is probably my favourite non-pel and I do agree with most of you here that when a superstar becomes available you do what you can to grab them. Long term well I have concerns with sending out the majority of our assets for a 2-3 year peak to appease Zion, but I do understand the franchise is in a tough position and whatever move gets made will have plenty of attention on it especially after what occurred last offseason.
I'm all in on this and would bet the farm. We literally have two farms of assets. So really I would bet one farm and the other would be safe. I love BI and think he could even become a better overall player than Dame, eventually, but but I think Dame fits better with Zion and he would bring the wins now....which would make Zion happy.
That being said, I try as hard as I can to get Dame while keeping BI and Zion. We have so much young talent and picks that we would still be able to keep some for ourselves and a trio of BI, Zion, and Dame is the type of core that ring chasers take vet min to play next to. Remember what we pulled in for AD (a bigger star than Dame, at the time). A Ball who had shown no improvement, Hart, and a BI that people on this board swore would never step another foot on the court, and picks.
Just Dame and Zion would still be great. Lonzo is on a trajectory to be the 3rd cheese in a big power trio. Forget the local haters. People with basketball acumen see how much he's improved over the past few seasons and can project a more accurate ceiling for him. That's why he has so much hype around him this offseason. Dame, Zion, and Ball would be a killer trio and if BI were in thr mme trade, we'd still have a solid team around thrm.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 07-16-2021 at 06:53 PM.
Good positive energy.
But also, yo mama's fat.
So you take what you got for Jrue, and most of what you got for AD, and move it for Lillard?
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
But they are like... We gotta throw in Ingram so we don't low ball them... Farm Team habits die hard...
what the hell....lets go all in and make dame,,CJ and zion our big 3....
Contributor
…yeah? What, we should be waiting for some other top 5 player to come available with all these assets?
1 guy has been super clutch his whole career. The other is named Brandon Ingram
Pretty much. Tired of inconsistency and i?m sure the FO is too. I don?t care what your stats are. Are you helping us win games?
1 guy has been super clutch his whole career. The other is named Brandon Ingram
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Nah. A lot of basketball fans are too impatient. They see 31 year old Dame and compare him to Brandon Ingram at 23. Or 26 year old Giannis and wonder why 21 year old Zion isn't carrying his team deep into the playoffs, yet. They allow that there is a slight difference in experience but don't see that it's THAT many years. BI won't be hitting his prime for another few seasons.
Dame was about 22 years old when he was drafted. BI is 23, now. Let that marinate a bit.
When Dame was in his late 20s, he couldn't carry his team past the Pels. I would wager money BI is able to get a team out of the 1st round of the playoffs in his late 20s.
In a vacuum, I'd keep BI over Dame. But thinking about who compliments Zion better and accelerating our timeline to attract better FAs and appease Zion makes me pull the trigger on a trade.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 07-17-2021 at 12:48 AM.
We also seem to be looking at this from the angle of "what will it take to get the superstar?" but we were just in this situation with AD and everyone who was around back then remembers that no team has the firepower to make an even trade. Boston wasn't even willing to give up both Tatum AND Brown. Like pelsfanatic is saying, it's more of "what can teams afford to give Portland for Dame?" Because a team not only has to have the ammo but they then still have to have a team after the trade good enough to appese their new superstar.
So. What packages can other teams put together and still be competitive that would be better than anything we can put together?
I don't have an answer. I'm really asking.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 07-17-2021 at 01:19 AM.
Another team would have to hope to make the trade and then get the stream of players looking to win a title at a discount. Like, if he went to Philly after they gave up Simmons, Maxey, and a ton of picks and swaps, lets say - then maybe you get 3-4 ring chasers to come in for the min or the room exception. The other path would be Knicks trade everything and are meh next season, but then clear the books and go get two max guys the following summer (say Zach Lavine and KD after he gets antsy and jumps again)
Regardless, the most likely outcome for nearly everyone is that they wont win a title. I would say Lillard's best chance to win a title, as sad as it is to say, is for him to be deemed a bad contract a year or two from now after maybe suffering a bad injury and lowered production, and then he gets traded for practically nothing like CP3 did.
@mcnamara247
FWIW, Griff hasnt make Ingram part of the package offer, and likely wont. Ingram was a big part of the coaching hire process and the team sees him and Zion as the two cornerstones right now. After that, NAW is the 3rd most internally desired piece, thought its a big gap and he would obviously be traded for the right guy. But of our young guys and picks (Kira, Hayes, #10, future picks), I think Griff and staff value NAW above all of them
Worth noting that this is less significant in regards to a Lillard trade than other recent superstar moves. You had to know you'd have a team good enough to compete after acquiring AD because he had one year left on his deal and could just walk if you didn't. Same with Kawhi, just to name another recent example.
This is not the case with Lillard. He has 5 years left on his deal: unless you think he's a legit threat to sit out 3+ years of a contract refusing to play (which I don't think he would) you don't need to know for sure you'd have a competitor left once you'd acquired him, you'd just need to believe you had a clear road to a competitor once you acquired him. Which wouldn't be too hard to imagine, even if it would be more difficult in practice.
Basketball.
My question is: what sort of rebuild will the PDX FO want?
1. A complete tear down where you receive umpteen first round picks, some very young talent and ********ty contract filler like Bled and Adams to make the trade legal (also probably trade CJ)
OR
2. A competitive type rebuild where you want a decent star type player like Ingram, picks and some very young talent (and keep CJ)?
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