Best Shooters Available (By Type)

[MichaelMcNamara]

We all agree that shooting is needed. What I think we fail to do, however, is differentiate the types of shooters/shots and realize we need multiple types. Surrounding Zion with only catch and shoot guys would leave the offense stagnant and predictable. Too many off the dribble, unassisted guys and Zion might not touch the ball enough. Needs to be a combination of types of shooters. Here is a list of guys who either are available via FA or reasonably could be available in a trade if Griff is aggressive enough

Off the Dribble

Player Attempts Percentage

McCollum 5.7 36.7%
Kemba 5.5 34.7%
FVV 4.1 35.3%
Buddy 3.8 38.4%
Brogdon 3.6 34.5%
Fournier 3.1 40.3%
Beal 2.9 30.8%
Lonzo 2.4 31.3%
Ingram (FWIW) 2.3 30.2%
M Beasley 2.3 38.1%
D. Robinson 2.1 37.9%
N. Powell 2.0 36.8%
A. Burks 2.0 46.5%
W. Ellington 2.0 49.5%

Several others had decent volume but shot it horribly (Graham and Rozier on Charlotte, for example). Suprising names on here for me that could be undervalued are Buddy and Fournier. Also sad to see nobody on our team shot it at an even average clip (JJ was the best). We need to upgrade this BIG TIME

Catch and Shoot

Bertans 6.8 40.8%
D Robinson 6.4 41.6%
Buddy 6.4 39.6%
M Beasley 6.2 41.3%
Lonzo 5.9 40.2%
Markkanen 5.7 40.5%
Bullock 5.6 42.5%
Porzingis 5.4 38.2%
OG 5.2 42.4%
Rozier 5.4 43.3%
D Graham 5.3 42.3%
K Love 5.1 33.6%
FVV 4.9 38.1%
KAT 5.0 41.4%
M. Turner 4.2 34.0%

This list can go on forever and quite a few guys shoot it well and at a high volume. But what I think you would find is that there are numerous guys who can give you THIS skill at a cheap cost, if its all you are looking for. For instance, Bryn Forbes took 4.1 per game and made 46.3% of them. Batum hit over 40% for the minimum. Niang hit a high percentage and shot nearly 1 per every 4 minutes for Utah.

Catch and shoot guys arent hard to find. You dont have to pay a lot for them and you can get them almost anywhere in the draft. If the Pelicans are going to use quality resources this offseason, spend money, etc - they should do it for the guys who can produce off the dribble. Supplimenting them with catch and shoot guys wont be hard to do after that.

[PELICANSFAN]

Fournier is a FA (but reportedly looking for $20 million) and Buddy is probably pretty easily acquirable. Either could probably start or at least see the court a lot. I have read on social media that some expect the Pels to pursue Powell, so he may be an option.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I always find it funny when a guy is "expecting" a number as if that dictates what he will get. I have heard so many guys in this class are in for massive numbers but I keep looking around, trying to find all these teams that will be using cap room to go get free agents. It just isnt out there. On average, about 5-7 guys per offseason get more than the MLE from teams that are not their current team. There are very few teams who have cap space this summer. Show me the team dying to spend 15, let alone 20 mil of it on Fournier. Only way he gets close to that is if the team with his bird rights give it to him, but Celts are right up on the tax. Cant see it. Once the Knicks and Spurs decide who they are going to spend their money on, a lot of guys are going to panic and players who want 20 mil are going to be begging for the full MLE

[PELICANSFAN]

I always find it funny when a guy is "expecting" a number as if that dictates what he will get. I have heard so many guys in this class are in for massive numbers but I keep looking around, trying to find all these teams that will be using cap room to go get free agents. It just isnt out there. On average, about 5-7 guys per offseason get more than the MLE from teams that are not their current team. There are very few teams who have cap space this summer. Show me the team dying to spend 15, let alone 20 mil of it on Fournier. Only way he gets close to that is if the team with his bird rights give it to him, but Celts are right up on the tax. Cant see it. Once the Knicks and Spurs decide who they are going to spend their money on, a lot of guys are going to panic and players who want 20 mil are going to be begging for the full MLE

Didn't opine on whether he would get it, only that it is what he is reportedly looking for.

[Silverfoxx]

MM what's your thoughts on taking the "vet project" approach (vet players who shine wore off due to health or bad seasons) and looking into players like John Wall or Devante Graham?

[MichaelMcNamara]

MM what's your thoughts on taking the "vet project" approach (vet players who shine wore off due to health or bad seasons) and looking into players like John Wall or Devante Graham?

I am a big fan of that. Why I started the 'Who would you gamble on?" thread

Its simple supply and demand. If you are going after the guys without the red flags or currently bad narratives around them, then you are bidding against many others - and thats even if their current team wants to let them go.

I'd rather find a few guys who are on the down side of their narrative arc and accept the negatives/put them in a position to succeed. Love, Kemba, Buddy, Beasley, Fournier, Siakam, CJ, Porzingis - some of those guys will continue to disappoint relative to salary, but some will go be given away for little to nothing and be a major value relative to acquisition cost. Neither of the guys you mentioned would be on my list, because of skill set, but I'd target and go get at least one high salary guy who is trending down from the list above

[Pelicanidae]

I'm still personally in on the ''get Buddy and see what he can do as a 3rd/4th option, maximising his shooting off Zion's gravity'' train. His contract is sizeable but it's not ridiculous and while his auxiliary skills aren't wild he's a historically incredible shooter and why wouldn't you pair that with Zion if the cost was sensible?

[MichaelMcNamara]

I am all for Buddy if the cost is Adams and 2nds or Bledsoe and our worst 1st (something we top-20 protect)

The issue to me with Buddy is his willingness. His ideal role is a super 6th. Something he doesnt like doing in Sacto and probably wont be excited about doing until he fails to win for a couple more years. To make him a starter here, Lonzo probably has to go out and either you dont bring another good guard in, or you block NAW's pathway.

Why I tend to like slightly older reclamation projects. They are over themselves and just want to prove they are worth SOMETHING. I dont think Buddy is there yet, but if he is, I'd be all for his skill set here

[Eman5805]

I’m on the Siakam train. He’s expensive. But he’s got the right set of skills. And letting him reduce his offensive workload and concentrate on what he’s best at might rejuvenate him. I know he wasn’t too bad in his multi dribble pull up game back in ‘19. I remember Harden was ridiculous on lots of dribbles that year if I might digress.

[PELICANSFAN]

I’m on the Siakam train. He’s expensive. But he’s got the right set of skills. And letting him reduce his offensive workload and concentrate on what he’s best at might rejuvenate him. I know he wasn’t too bad in his multi dribble pull up game back in ‘19. I remember Harden was ridiculous on lots of dribbles that year if I might digress.

Not sure I want Siakam at his salary.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Not sure I want Siakam at his salary.

This is the entire point. If you did want him at his salary, you couldnt have him and/or would have to pay a ton for him.

Similar words would have been typed about CP3 in 2019. Nobody wanted Tobias Harris last offseason, because of his salary, Wiggins came with a great draft pick because he wasnt worth his salary.

To get real value, you gotta gamble and hit on one of these guys, all while saving the assets for a sure thing when it presents itself.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think my rankings (and what I think they will cost plays a major factor), would go:

1. CJ
2. Beasley
3. Love
4. Fournier
5. Buddy
6. Siakam
7. Kemba
8. Porzingis

I like going that gamble route, giving up minimal to no assets over the 'give up 2 firsts for good players who are viewed positively around the league' type of guys. Like Brogdon. Or maybe Smart, etc. I'd rather buy the dip

[HornetGuru]

Are these 3pt attempts or all pull up attempts, mid range included?

[DroopyDawg]

Love, Kemba and Porzingis stay hurt. I like Buddy and Fournier but they're both liabilities on defense (or were).

[HornetGuru]

I think alec burks would be a good fit also

[MichaelMcNamara]

Love, Kemba and Porzingis stay hurt. I like Buddy and Fournier but they're both liabilities on defense (or were).

Kemba never got hurt until his recent issues. And remember, we hated when people called Jrue injury prone when it was only one issue that he eventually got over. Again, it wouldnt be a gamble if the guys had no negatives. To buy low, the guy actually has to be low

[MichaelMcNamara]

Are these 3pt attempts or all pull up attempts, mid range included?

3 pt pull up only

[HornetGuru]

3 pt pull up only

Thanks, what is considered league average for 3pt percentage for off the dribble and catch and shoot so I have something to compare to to see how these guys compare and if they are above average

[MichaelMcNamara]

Thanks, what is considered league average for 3pt percentage for off the dribble and catch and shoot so I have something to compare to to see how these guys compare and if they are above average

For guys who have decent volume (2 or more off dribble and 3.5 or more catch and shoot), the average off dribble is about 34.4%. Good would be anothing over 36. Great would be anything over 37.5 (which is pretty rare)

Catch and shoot - average is 36.2%. Good is anything over 38%. Great is anything over 41%. The super elite will be in the mid 40s. Marcus Morris was absurd at almost 50% this year, but that is an outlier. Ingram's 43+ percent puts him in the top tier when considering volume. Lonzo giving you 40% on 6 attempts is very good, bordering on great. But such a drastic drop off the dribble makes him much easier to close out hard on. Why CJ is a better "shooter" despite a worse percentage.

[PELICANSFAN]

Kemba never got hurt until his recent issues. And remember, we hated when people called Jrue injury prone when it was only one issue that he eventually got over. Again, it wouldnt be a gamble if the guys had no negatives. To buy low, the guy actually has to be low

Yeah, but Kemba is 31 and my understanding is that he has chronic knee issues. Don't mind gambling on guys, but if it becomes another Adams issue (puts us at or over tax), not sure we want to take that chance.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Yeah, but Kemba is 31 and my understanding is that he has chronic knee issues. Don't mind gambling on guys, but if it becomes another Adams issue (puts us at or over tax), not sure we want to take that chance.

Thats fine. Who are the guys you would want to gamble on? Much easier to say who you wouldnt with this list than who you would. So, who would be your gamble(s)?

[PELICANSFAN]

Thats fine. Who are the guys you would want to gamble on? Much easier to say who you wouldnt with this list than who you would. So, who would be your gamble(s)?

Wasn't there another thread on that? I was thinking much lower like an Otto Porter-type player. Hield was another who is a bit expensive but may be on the outs. I guess I get a bit squeamish on the $30+ million players that are older and/or injured.

edit: I guess I could be talked into Kemba if it meant Adams/Bledsoe going the other way with maybe another asset coming back.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Off the Dribble

Player Attempts Percentage

Lonzo 2.4 31.3%

Catch and Shoot

Lonzo 5.9 40.2%

So when Lonzo catches the ball so wide open that he has time to stand there and take a dribble and then shoot it, do they consider that a catch and shoot or off the dribble?

The fact that Lonzo is so high on the list when the eye test makes me doubt that he's really a good shooter, makes me wonder how an actual good shooter would do playing off of Zion's gravity well.

[MichaelMcNamara]

So when Lonzo catches the ball so wide open that he has time to stand there and take a dribble and then shoot it, do they consider that a catch and shoot or off the dribble?

The fact that Lonzo is so high on the list when the eye test makes me doubt that he's really a good shooter, makes me wonder how an actual good shooter would do playing off of Zion's gravity well.

Lonzo shoots 37.9% with Zion on the court, 37.6% when he is off. No difference

I dont believe in all this gravity stuff. A guy shoots how he shoots for the most part. Zion isnt going to make guys much better - just like Fred Vinson doesnt.

In fact, Lonzo's volume is pretty much the same both with Zion on and Zion off (5.8 attempts per 23 mins when Zion is off. 6 per 22.5 wins when he is on)

Almost no difference in Lonzo. Ingram actually shoots better without Zion (40 percent vs 37 percent). Again, similar volume.

Zion wont make guys better. We have to get the guys who are already good. Both off the dribble and on the catch

[PELICANSFAN]

Zion isnt going to make guys much better - just like Fred Vinson doesnt.

I know you tend to downplay Vinson's value as a shooting coach, but I disagree with that statement. Both Lonzo and BI credit Vinson with changing their mechanics to make them a better shooter. Is he a magician that makes all players better? No. Just like Nelson cannot make all players stay healthy.