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Thread: S&T Possibilities for Lonzo

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    I think the Lonzo haters just feel the way they do because of what he 'could be'. I like the player that he is and would prefer him to focus on being a spot up SG with great handles and passing for that position. 20mil a year is steep for him though and he'll likely get that offer. It boils down to how important he is as a part of the current nucleus, is he really loved by Zion and Ingram? Is the team really set on Ingram as the guy to pair with Zion? Those are important aspects too. If the FO feels like Zion and Ingram is not a winning duo then how much does keeping the LA boys together and happy matter? How much does the team value the Zion/Lonzo combo?

    Personally I'd keep going with this core. There is still natural growth to get out of the players we have. The weakness of this team seems to be defensive tenacity, shooting and depth. We have a good pick this year and multiple 1sts for the next 5 years. We can fill the voids around the core in place and we should, assuming that core likes playing together.
    I'd like this core as well. I know they can grow into a dynamic core with time. But that's the biggest issue... "Time". With the contracts of NAW, Hayes, Zion, etc. Coming up, these guys are gonna want to get PAID when extension talks come up. Ain't no such thing as a team friendly deal anymore. So handicapping us with an extension with Lonzo/Hart seems a bit troublesome. I look towards the future and it can go many different ways but we'll see. I say we do the unpopular deals that fills the team with damn good energetic/role players instead of handicapping with another big contract. MM posts up some pretty good unpopular trades that'll fill out the team better and makes us at competitive cause the play style of the players mesh well together.

  2. #27
    What is a hater? And how does that compare to the person that says he has given approximately the value of a 6-10 million dollar type of player over the last 4 years, so they have genuine concern when you would have to pay him 18-22 over the next 4?

    Why would being concerned about paying triple what they have been worth so far make someone a "hater"? Has he had games where he looks like he would be worth that money? Sure. NAW has had games too where he looked like a stud--- ready to give him 20 mil? And if you say no, are you a hater?

    As for what Zion and Ingram thinks
    ...who cares? Players are awful evaluators of talent and the second they start winning games with another dude, they will love that guy too.

    Listen to the arguments you guys are really making for Lonzo and you will see they all boil down to fear based reasons. Dont want to lose him for nothing. Dont want to get BI and Zion mad. What if he blossoms somewhere else and we look dumb?

    He has strengths but he has massive weaknesses
    Not C level weaknesses that maybe you can get to a B. But F level weaknesses. For that, you pay around the MLE. Maybe a tiny bit more if he is younger, which Lonzo is. But to me, he impacts winning about as much as a Jae Crowder. Not comparing their games, just naming a player whose level he is on with regard to how much he helps. Some games he will be THE X factor in a win. Others, mostly non existent but helping marginally in a few areas. And for that, I happily pay 10-13 mil IF the guy accepts and embraces that role. Which Jae does right now and Lonzo eont for another 5 years. And it will be at that point in his career when I would want a Lonzo Ball
    @mcnamara247

  3. #28
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Zion and Ingram won’t care what happens to Lonzo if they start winning. It’s the cure all.

  4. #29
    Would Phoenix be interested in Lonzo if CP opts out/leaves (NY?)?

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
    Zion and Ingram won’t care what happens to Lonzo if they start winning. It’s the cure all.
    I think it's hard for people to really register how true this is.

    Of course, for a franchise like the Pelicans it won't cure everything as quickly as one good season does for a massive franchise like the Lakers or the Knicks, but the reality is that so much bad press surrounding franchises vanishes the moment they win 45 games in a season.

    It's been said before, but how much complaining have you heard from the media about James Dolan this year? For me, it's basically none. He's still the same man he was a year ago, or 18 months ago, running the same team in the same city. But this year they made the playoffs, so the silence is deafening.

    Same with Sarver in Phoenix. Phoenix missed the playoffs for a decade straight, all we heard was how Sarver needed to sell the team, Booker needed to demand a trade, etc etc. This year, top 3 seed; no complaints.

    People right now talking about how Zion needs to ask out, how BI is being wasted, how SVG is oppressing Lonzo's true Genius, etc etc etc: win 45 games next year and 95% of that chatter will vanish.
    Basketball.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    I think the Lonzo haters just feel the way they do because of what he 'could be'. I like the player that he is and would prefer him to focus on being a spot up SG with great handles and passing for that position. 20mil a year is steep for him though and he'll likely get that offer. It boils down to how important he is as a part of the current nucleus, is he really loved by Zion and Ingram? Is the team really set on Ingram as the guy to pair with Zion? Those are important aspects too. If the FO feels like Zion and Ingram is not a winning duo then how much does keeping the LA boys together and happy matter? How much does the team value the Zion/Lonzo combo?

    Personally I'd keep going with this core. There is still natural growth to get out of the players we have. The weakness of this team seems to be defensive tenacity, shooting and depth. We have a good pick this year and multiple 1sts for the next 5 years. We can fill the voids around the core in place and we should, assuming that core likes playing together.
    Hate isn?t it at all. Maybe for a select few, but he really isn?t good enough for the contract he will demand. Question is will he get there in one or two seasons time, or will he stay a bang average player for the rest of his career. Part of me wants to re-sign him as I sympathize with him and I like a good redemption arc. He has his demons and is making the best of his time in New Orleans to distance himself from the hubbub. I respect that a lot. Says a lot about his character. He has the potential physically and has made huge strides in his 3 point shot. But he still chokes. Quite often. 0-9 after a 6-9 game, etc. He is incredibly hesitant to attack the basket and often shies away from contact at the rim. He is still dung in the half court.

    The reality is, those strides have to come both mentally and physically. Maybe he puts on that extra weight to finish through contact. Maybe he visits a Buddha temple in the offseason and exercises whatever demons haunt his inconsistent 3 point shot. Maybe he becomes Chris Paul?s Padawan in the summer and learns how to lead a team in the half court. I hope it internally. I like Hart and Ball and would like both of them to stay in my heart. But my head has way too many questions.

  7. #32
    If you guys haven't caught on already, Griff (take it with a grain of salt) has labeled Zo(and Hart) as a great rotational piece. Rotational pieces ain't getting 20M a year. Not even the 6th man gets 20m a year. I've already came to the conclusion since the trade deadline that we'll trade or release Lonzo sooner or later.

  8. #33

  9. #34
    Lets work backwards.... Griff will likely make his big offseason move before we have to make a decision on Lonzo

    So, based on possible trade targets and what you likely have to pay for said target, who are the guys we would acquire that would make Lonzo less of a priority to keep and who are the guys that would make him more of a priority?

    For example, if we have to give up a lot for CJ or Beal, including NAW...then I gotta keep Lonzo. But if I get Brogdon for Bledsoe, 10, and a future 1st, I am looking to sign and trade Lonzo for a front court guy and going either Brog and NAW or Brog and BI as my backcourt

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Lets work backwards.... Griff will likely make his big offseason move before we have to make a decision on Lonzo

    So, based on possible trade targets and what you likely have to pay for said target, who are the guys we would acquire that would make Lonzo less of a priority to keep and who are the guys that would make him more of a priority?

    For example, if we have to give up a lot for CJ or Beal, including NAW...then I gotta keep Lonzo. But if I get Brogdon for Bledsoe, 10, and a future 1st, I am looking to sign and trade Lonzo for a front court guy and going either Brog and NAW or Brog and BI as my backcourt
    I like Brogdon and BI a lot. In any case, I think BI is better suited as a 2 who can play downhill and score proficiently at all three levels. He can be a secondary playmaker and I think his body type is more suitable defensively to play in the backcourt.

  11. #36
    I think Griff sees Zion as a "guard" - for sure on offense and on defense, he gets hidden on the worst perimeter player. Like, if you are playing Utah, Zion is covering Royce O'Neale to start and probably Ingles in crunch time. But if you are playing Denver, he is probably defending Gordon and if you are playing the Clippers, he is getting hidden on Reggie Jackson or Rondo

    But on offense, Zion is going to be a guard, so I could see a world in which Griff doesnt add anybody shorter than Zion this offseason and you are looking at a starting lineup where everyone is 6'6" - 6'11"

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I think Griff sees Zion as a "guard" - for sure on offense and on defense, he gets hidden on the worst perimeter player. Like, if you are playing Utah, Zion is covering Royce O'Neale to start and probably Ingles in crunch time. But if you are playing Denver, he is probably defending Gordon and if you are playing the Clippers, he is getting hidden on Reggie Jackson or Rondo

    But on offense, Zion is going to be a guard, so I could see a world in which Griff doesnt add anybody shorter than Zion this offseason and you are looking at a starting lineup where everyone is 6'6" - 6'11"
    I know that's Griff's view, but I hate it (and said so many times). When this team is in 'Point Zion' mode, there is absolutely no movement (player or ball). Admittedly, I am not as versed as some of you in statistical analysis, but I'd bet that BI's productivity drops significantly when in "Point Zion' mode (heck, everybody becomes a spectator like you and me). Too, the backside (Zion's right side) becomes a non-factor; wouldn't that be a distinct advantage to opposing defenses? Also, for good or bad, Zion's Assist to turnover ratio is certainly not 'Springfield-worthy'.

    Zion is an an elite finisher; he's a very pedestrian orchestrator.
    Last edited by As I See It; 06-06-2021 at 12:30 PM.

  13. #38
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    If we were to get kemba, then I sign and trade Lonzo for John Collins. Hell unless we get another shooting big somewhere, Collins is probably my target. I?d try to get Bagley as one of my backup bigs (hopefully he?s a buy low and we can get him healthy).

    Beasley would be another target that maybe we can get cheap since he?s going to jail for 120 days.

    Sign Otto Porter

    I just don?t think a lot will be out there as a big splash move. I?m praying for a top 3 or 4 pick and grab Jalen Green and potentially move up and get Springer. If we have any seconds left I?m drafting 6?8-6?9 wing/stretch 4?s

    Kemba, NAW, Kira, Springer
    Beasley, Green, Naji
    BI, Porter, Reddish (cause I like him)
    Zion, Collins, Bagley
    Hayes, Robert Williams (from Boston with Kemba)

  14. #39
    Whilst everyone is zigging for Beal and Dame, we need to zag for Brodgon

    Will cost less and will be super effective with Zion and BI

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    I know that's Griff view, but I hate it (and said so many times). When this team is in 'Point Zion' mode, there is absolutely no movement (player or ball). Admittedly, I am not as versed as some of you in statistical analysis, but I'd bet that BI's productivity drops significantly when in "Point Zion' mode (heck, everybody becomes a spectator like you and me). Too, the backside (Zion's right side) becomes a non-factor; wouldn't that be a distinct advantage to opposing defenses? Also, for good or bad, Zion's Assist to turnover ration is certainly not 'Springfield-worthy'.

    Zion is an an elite finisher; he's a very pedestrian orchestrator.
    The thought is that he is not a finished product as a playmaker at 20

  16. #41
    Another team I'll throw out there is Indiana. With the big caveat that Indiana would probably not appeal to Klutch...but it's ultimately Lonzo's decision.

    Indian could send back either Myles Turner or Brogdon. The thought is Brogdon is just too slow and can't run the new coach's offense. And Turner would be a good fit for Zion and Ingram so they both can drive the lane and make plays.
    Brogdon has 2 years remaining on his contract at ~$22 mil. Turner has 2 years remaining at $18 mil. Both players have been in and out of the lineup battling constant injuries. So if it's Brogdon, I'd most definitely still try to draft Mitchell.
    I'm not as high on either of them as most here are, but either would be an upgrade over Lonzo imo, and both only have 2 years left on their deals. Fine with me so I'd make the trade pieces work without sending Indiana back any of our young players or 1st round picks. Probably not fine for Klutch.

  17. #42
    So, Indiana fired their new coach after just 1 covid season.

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ff-streak-ends

    Pacers management met with Bjorkgren on Tuesday to discuss his future and ultimately decided that the disconnect between him and a veteran locker room with playoff aspirations had created an insurmountable gulf, sources told ESPN. Bjorkgren had one guaranteed year left on his original three-year contract, sources said.
    Maybe they blow it up? I think I'd take Myles Turner over Brogdon. Griff seems to be building a team full players with +physical attributes. Brogdon isn't that, so they may not go after him.

    Turner is a stretch 4/5 and could pair well with Zion. Plus he only has 2 years left on his contract, so he may be a trade piece year after next as an expiring. Or I'm sure we'd have his bird rights to resign him that year also.
    Last edited by luckyman; 06-09-2021 at 03:38 PM.

  18. #43
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Sabonis up for grabs? And Brogdon? Be too greachy to get both? Heh.
    But

  19. #44
    Its the opposite. If he stayed, Sabonis would be on the block. Now, I think he stays. Brogdon is a possibility because they want to play faster but I think Griff's Sabonis dream died today

  20. #45
    Exhibit C Nola3's Avatar
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    I realize this is a very stupid reasoning for many reasons, but I'd be hesitant to trade for Turner because he'd block Jax's playing time. The last month or so of this past season got me irrationally hyped for what Jax can become if he stays on something close to this trajectory.

    As far as S&T for Zo, I lean towards taking a shot if it's out there. My immediate thought is trying to pry Isaac out of Orlando, but I don't think that works for a few reasons. But someone either coming off a down year or off an injury with 2-3 seasons left on their current deal.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Nola3 View Post
    I realize this is a very stupid reasoning for many reasons, but I'd be hesitant to trade for Turner because he'd block Jax's playing time. The last month or so of this past season got me irrationally hyped for what Jax can become if he stays on something close to this trajectory.

    As far as S&T for Zo, I lean towards taking a shot if it's out there. My immediate thought is trying to pry Isaac out of Orlando, but I don't think that works for a few reasons. But someone either coming off a down year or off an injury with 2-3 seasons left on their current deal.
    I dont think it would affect Jaxson. The odd man out might by Billy if they resign him.

    You can be more flexible against spacing teams like Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Dallas, Denver, etc. Against those teams, your main big rotation can be Turner/Zion, Jax/Turner and Adams maybe plays only 10 - 15 mins. Against the more traditional teams like Philly, Memphis, Phoenix, Lakers...Adams stays on the floor while Turner plays less.

    You keep them both fresh throughout the season. Turner is coming off of season-ending toe surgery. And they are both really just 1 -2 year placeholders while Jaxson keeps adding weight/shooting range and eventually moves into that starters role.
    Last edited by luckyman; 06-09-2021 at 08:51 PM.

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