Guy You Would Gamble On

[MichaelMcNamara]

Pretty safe to say CJ McCollum would be a low buy at this stage, no?

Buy lower than his all time peak price? Maybe

Buy low? No way. I think it would take matching salary, one of the young prospects and 3 firsts to get him

[As I See It]

I think it safe to say that McCollum benefits from playing with one of the top three guards in basketball as his running mate. I'll agree he would make a nice co-pilot guard, but the jury is out for me on whether he can drive the bus alone.

(In general, I don't understand the fascination people have in undersized guards who are a defensive liability and who can be easily posted up).

[MichaelMcNamara]

You need to look up his stats when Lillard was out a year ot two ago. Were Lillard like with even better efficiency

[MichaelMcNamara]

28, 6, and 5 in 33 games without Lillard. Won over .500 too.

I could see a world in which he is better without him because he gets to touch the ball more. There are stretches in games where he wont touch it for 4 or 5 possessions. Which is awful for a volume scorer, trying to get into a groove

[Eman5805]

Buy lower than his all time peak price? Maybe

Buy low? No way. I think it would take matching salary, one of the young prospects and 3 firsts to get him

Hmm. So assuming Portland is willing, would you do it?

[RUFshreve]

Buy lower than his all time peak price? Maybe

Buy low? No way. I think it would take matching salary, one of the young prospects and 3 firsts to get him

I'd pass at that price.

[Pelicanidae]

I'd pass at that price.

I actually think McCollum is one of the more over-rated guys in the league, rather than the underrated gambles this thread is supposed to be aimed at. Maybe I just have a weird perspective on CJs value though, maybe he's not as highly rated as I think

[MichaelMcNamara]

Wouldnt you have to know the rating to determine whether you think a guy is overrated or underrated?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Hmm. So assuming Portland is willing, would you do it?

I wouldnt. The guy I would personally go all in for has to be at least a B-plus defensively. I already got two guys who i think are horrible on defense. Only way Id want a CJ type is if Ingram went out in that trade or another one

[Pelicanidae]

Wouldnt you have to know the rating to determine whether you think a guy is overrated or underrated?

Well, since nobody has a complete and comprehensive valuation of every player made up from the collated and compared ratings of every fan, it's possible that I do have a sense of a player's rating but that other people have a different sense due to being exposed to different opinions.

Most people I see talking about CJ rate him very highly and seem to think he's been robbed of multiple allstar appearances and is one of the top 5 SGs in the league or so, but maybe that's not representative of the larger conversation surrounding him and is just an artifact of the sort of people I've seen talking about CJ.

That's what I mean. I think he's overrated, based on what conversations I've seen, but maybe I've just seen weird conversations and other people generally rate him much lower.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Well, since nobody has a complete and comprehensive valuation of every player made up from the collated and compared ratings of every fan, it's possible that I do have a sense of a player's rating but that other people have a different sense due to being exposed to different opinions.

Most people I see talking about CJ rate him very highly and seem to think he's been robbed of multiple allstar appearances and is one of the top 5 SGs in the league or so, but maybe that's not representative of the larger conversation surrounding him and is just an artifact of the sort of people I've seen talking about CJ.

That's what I mean. I think he's overrated, based on what conversations I've seen, but maybe I've just seen weird conversations and other people generally rate him much lower.

It was a cheeky way of making a point that I dont understand why people use 'underrated' and 'overrated' when, as you admit, we dont have agreed upon ratings. Why not just say what we think of a player without involving this percieived, unprovable thing? Because, in all likelihood, what you have seen is going to be a product of selective reading/hearing at best, and at worst its just a far too small of sample size to project what the collective thinks.

This idea of vague others dominates how most talk about sports, from 'overrated and underrated' to the phrases 'Nobody talks about' or 'Everyone thinks/says' etc. It is the definition of creating a strawman to then make a point off this fake thing. I just dont get why its done and its become a massive part of NBA fan vocabulary the last 5 years. You heard 'overrated and underrated' in the 90s and 2000s but this use of strawmen in nearly every argument is a relatively new thing and I dont get why it seems so necessary. Just say, "I dont think CJ is a massive difference maker, and I definitely dont think he is worth that price. I would rather use the assets elsewhere"

[13 - 3]

To those that want to get rid of Ingram. How about this trade as a start?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5g3f5qm

[13 - 3]

Or Paul George?

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...orge/96524396/

[HornetGuru]

Alec Burks would be a decent older guy that can come in and help with our young guards. But the Knicks would likely want to keep him around.

Avery Bradley may fit more of the kick the tires older vet, but he hasn?t been anywhere near his old self. But he could likely help our perimeter defense.

Danny Green could help our 3 point shooting.

I would like to bring in a decent vet guard & power forward for our young guys to learn from. I guess Eric Bledsoe & James Johnson fit that category, but one makes too much money and has to go. And the other wasn?t here all that long and I?m not sure is the guy I want Zion learning from.

I wanted to bring in Al Horford 2 years ago and now that looks like it would of been a bad move especially at the money he got. If. Kevin Love can be had at a really good price he would be ideal for Zion to learn somethings from.

Alec Burks would be a fantastic fit IMO, won?t break the bank, plays SG and SF, shot 42% from 3 this year on 5 attempts again and is a decent defender. If he strictly player SG he would be even better defensively because of his size. I think he would fit in great

[HornetGuru]

28, 6, and 5 in 33 games without Lillard. Won over .500 too.

I could see a world in which he is better without him because he gets to touch the ball more. There are stretches in games where he wont touch it for 4 or 5 possessions. Which is awful for a volume scorer, trying to get into a groove

Agreed, McCollum has a James harden type game and since he’s playing next to a better guard than himself in lillard it kind of drops his game. If McCollum went somewhere where he was the lead guard he’d put up numbers as good as any other guard in the league offensively IMO

[HornetGuru]

To those that want to get rid of Ingram. How about this trade as a start?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5g3f5qm

As much as I like Simmons, he’s like Zion in which he needs to be surrounded by shooters, so his lack of shooting wouldn’t be a good fit here

[Pelicanidae]

Agreed, McCollum has a James harden type game and since he’s playing next to a better guard than himself in lillard it kind of drops his game. If McCollum went somewhere where he was the lead guard he’d put up numbers as good as any other guard in the league offensively IMO

Disagree honestly, I think his off-ball game is just on a level below all of those elite offensive guards like Curry and Beal, and he's nothing like the playmaker most of those guys are either. Lillard isn't even a top shelf playmaker but he makes McCollum look like a black hole in comparison.

[MichaelMcNamara]

So, I know you guys are all grain of salt, whatever but I have it on good authority the two top targets (that Griff feels are possible) this offseason are Beal and Sabonis. We have been down the Beal road before, so I will open it up for Sabonis. What is the MOST you would give up for him? Not the trade you would offer or want to make but the one that would hurt but you would still pull the trigger over not doing it? And from there, how would you complete the offseason (lets assume Indy does not want Adams back in the trade as part of this exercise)

[HornetGuru]

Disagree honestly, I think his off-ball game is just on a level below all of those elite offensive guards like Curry and Beal, and he's nothing like the playmaker most of those guys are either. Lillard isn't even a top shelf playmaker but he makes McCollum look like a black hole in comparison.

Agree on this but I also never called him a playmaker but the dude can get buckets with the best of them IMO

[13 - 3]

If you love Eric Bledsoe “s defense you will love CJ’s defense

[BigChris504]

LOL

Let?s get another version of Eric Bledsoe

I don't even know where to start with this one. 😂 Man if we replaced Eric Bledsoe with C.J. McCollum this season we watching the Pels on TNT at this moment bro, and I'll say that with conviction!!! Like come on dude, you can't compare every player that goes through slumps to Bled.

[13 - 3]

I don't even know where to start with this one. �� Man if we replaced Eric Bledsoe with C.J. McCollum this season we watching the Pels on TNT at this moment bro, and I'll say that with conviction!!! Like come on dude, you can't compare every player that goes through slumps to Bled.

Okay

Solomon Hill

[13 - 3]

Terry Stotts and CJ McCollum in China next year pic.twitter.com/1PpvdaSvhZ

— NBA Memes (@NBAMemes) June 4, 2021

[Pelicanidae]

Agree on this but I also never called him a playmaker but the dude can get buckets with the best of them IMO

Sure but assists are part of the offensive numbers he would supposedly put up, no?

[Eman5805]

The main reason you can’t compare Bledsoe to McCollum is Bledsoe is supposed to be an elite defender.