I wonder if Philly sees how easy it is to score when Trae has to guard. He basically just moves out of the way.
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I wonder if Philly sees how easy it is to score when Trae has to guard. He basically just moves out of the way.
I think he can be pretty damned respectable in the sense that I think his touch is good. But I cannot give you an exact estimate because I still have a questions as to how fluid his shooting motion will be off the pull-up. We have to see how it goes with Vinson in the offseason as that may give me a better view of where he stands. But as I said, I think his touch is good and he understands the distance to the basket (which is why he can nail threes despite having a janky shot).Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
I mean, take out that first fluke game and he has made an average of .1 three's per game at a clip of under 30%
I am not asking anybody to predict it exactly right, or hold it against you if you are wrong. But you have to have some kind of baseline of realistic expectation to roster construct. If you think he will be Ben Simmons from 2nd and 3rd level, you build one way. Westbrook, another. Giannis, another. But if you think he can slowly evolve the way Lebron has, then you build another way. You have to have some idea of what you expect, otherwise how do you build your roster accordingly?
Last edited by MichaelMcNamara; 06-08-2021 at 07:34 PM.
@mcnamara247
Either way you build the roster according to his strengths Mac. I am not debating that. I do however think Zion is very capable of expanding his game (and range) to a competent level (maybe even a good one), but much of it hinges on how quickly he can make the necessary adjustments to his release. Some players take multiple off seasons and others learn very quickly. I think as it stands, it will take a while. But Vinson has shown what he can do already with Lonzo. I see no reason why Zion can’t fix it.
I wouldnt build to his current strengths, because if those current strengths are his future strengths, you arent going to build a championship roster. As for Vinson, I am so tired of hearing about that dude. Sure, Lonzo got a little better and Ingram went back to his rookie form and became a good FT shooter. But how come nobody ever mentions all the players who didnt improve with us? Or even more, why dont people mention all the guys who got way better after they left? Like Randle, like Kenrich, and so many more.
Fred Vinson is another guy. Every team has one, you just dont know their names because you arent a fan of other teams. But trust me, Vinson is nothing special and isnt the cure for Zion's jumper. Lonzo shot over 40% in college. Ingram has had a great stroke all his life. Zion's jumper looks like someone having a seizure. To go from what he is now to even average would be an outlier in NBA history. Which is why I think its a cop out when everyone says he will get better but wont specify what exactly they expect. I think that is incredibly important to plan this roster
It's funny!! Every time we speak about the future of this team, it's centered on one player who is pretty much a one dimensional player offensively at this point.
May I be so bold as to mention that, OFFENSIVELY, we already have an All Star who is already capable at all three levels and has continued to demonstrate the work ethic required to improve? Yet, many in here are ready to trade him away for whatever 'name' we can get in return ASAP to make the other guy happy. I fully admit that BI is not the physical specimen that #1, and that he will never be the player that Zion is in the paint, but I proffer that Zion will never be the offensive threat that BI is at all three levels.
Does BI have warts? Absolutely, especially on the defensive end. But let's also call it for what it is; Zion has plenty of warts too. Is he a finished product? I hope not, but I say the same thing about BI too. Also, BI gets criticized for his 'body-type', but let's not kid ourselves. There are a lot more NBA players who look like BI then Zion. This could be a positive for Zion, or it could also be a career killer if not managed properly.
So as we salivate over elite stars we don't have, let's not forget the ones we do have....both of them
Last edited by As I See It; 06-08-2021 at 08:41 PM.
At this point you are arguing to argue. Hedge your bets all you want Mac. Nobody is impressed. Good night
Who is arguing? I have asked a very simple question and only one dude who said Barkley is kind of giving a concrete answer. Everyone else just says a vague "he will improve" - which means nothing considering he basically never shot from the 2nd or 3rd level. Every fan likes to think themselves a message board GM - well, these are the kind of convos you have to have as you build a team around a guy. You cant just wait around and see. You have to have a realistic projection. I am simply asking what that is. I have laid out mine and asked if you guys see similar or am I being "optimistic" or "pessimistic" with my projection.
Sorry, if I was in a front office with a guy who worked for me/with me, I wouldnt accept "he will get better" and let the convo end there. Gotta dig deeper
Mac, you quite frankly aren’t worth responding to anymore. I tried to give you a chance. I did. But one comment from Lucky and all of a sudden you are throwing the toys out of the pram again. You have good insight at times, but ultimately your takes are horribly bad and you continue to be condescending to everyone even though most are trying to be civil. Easy mute. Farewell sweet prince
But you still responded
I had to say good night first
MAC asks the questions nobody cares to address. I remember when he simply said that Zion wasn't the clear cut choice over Ja that everybody was talking about in the 2019 draft and everyone balked. Today, I think there is a case to be made that Morvant was the better choice in that draft if for no other reason than the position he plays and the effect he has had on his team. This question will ultimately be decided over the course of two careers, but if this was a heavyweight fight, most would have given rounds one and two to Morant.
The guy just said that you shouldn’t build around a franchise cornerstone because of what he may or may not add to his game in the future. It is an actual brain dead take. I don’t think he even believes it, but he said it to be contrarian. Any guy that throws out a hundred guesses a day can be right once. Good for him.
Also, Zion is by far the better talent. Another brain dead take about Jah
I cant keep track. People say "Zion is only 20, has only played X games" - and inherent in that is that they are saying he is still going to evolve. Now, I ask, "Exactly what do you expect him to evolve to?" and its "Build around what he currently does!"
No, what he currently is wont be what he is in 4 years. And if it is, like Ben Simmons, it will be a massive disappointment. He must become multi dimensional, and he likely will. And we have to project the level to build the right roster around him. I cant even believe this is some kind of controversial take. Its common sense
Zion is the better talent. My argument would be that Ja might be easily to construct a roster around. He has a clear position and at least some outside game, so you have more options available. If Zion never develops an outside game, you cant have another non shooting threat. He is also a perimeter player who cant defend perimeter players, and really cant defend interior ones either.
So, while more supremely talented, I could argue Ja could be easier to construct around and he has already shown alpha leadership qualities. Still waiting to see those from Zion. Again, all of it (leadership, shooting, defense) might come. Also have to acknowledge some may not
I thought you called it a night?
You have to project. It's exactly what Griff and company did with JAX. You have to plan based on your best estimates of his future. If you think Zion will be 'A', you have to add 'X'. If Zion turn out to be something different, then 'X' might not work.
To say you are going to build around a player without projecting what that player will be in three to five years is simply foolhardy. I kind of think that's what Dumps did with AD; 'throw something at the wall and hope sticks'. Asik anyone?
I dont know how this got hostile so fast. Didnt talk down to anybody or any of the other things people accuse me of doing. Maybe its others who are the issue?
I simply am asking how people are projecting Zion moving forward. Then, based on these playoffs, how do you add around that to beat these top teams. Sorry if any feathers were ruffled
Zion has a pretty smooth pull up from 10ft. Its his 3 pointers that looks awkward. His form could definitely improve but he already looks much less clunky and mechanical than Giannis looks. His 3-10 ft shooting this year is better than Giannis has had in his whole career. Giannis is a 35% shooter from midrange for his career which is gross. Westbrook is a decent projection. I could see Zion getting to 40%, mid 70s ft %, 35% from 3 on low volume. You can still gameplan against that level of a shooter but that would still be a good enough mark that there will be some games where Zion burns you for playing off him.
I see Zion level as being like Shawn Kemp...
hell I'm the person who said we should trade Lonzo to Memphis and draft Morant and get as many picks and players from the deal because I believe we can build faster and easy around Morant and Ingram from the Memphis picks,, Lakers picks, and picks from a jrue trade that we was going to make...I still believe this today while Zion is doing all these amazing things as of now...
I also believe until we get our curry, dame, Tre, luka type player at the pg or sg position we won't be contending anytime soon...
Here are all of Zion's pull ups (or something kind of equivalent) from the season
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?fl...player&sct=hex
Only 11 in total, so you can watch them all in about a minute.
Contributor
It's not impossible that he can become proficient at that. And quite quickly. He's already started working on it. He just needs to dedicate himself to it. He'll surely find that it'll prolong his career and take considerably less stamina in the process.
Utah fans telling the truth about Paul George
Gobert just showed why he is the best defensive player in the NBA period
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