Pels Off season thread

[MichaelMcNamara]

This thread is going off the rails quick and I find it hilarious. Please.....carry on!

[AusPel]

Target Brogdon pls Griff

[AusPel]

Let's parse it.....

New Orleans:

The bottom line is, you have a lot of people in New Orleans that have looked to Stan van Gundy and wondered if they?ve turned a deaf ear to what he?s saying. True / False

We know he knows what he?s talking about. We know that he knows the game. We know that from that perspective he deserves the credibility that he has. True / False

But, there does come a point in time where you can look at an individual and say, they?re just not listening to you anymore. True / False

Still, Smith doesn?t believe the matter is necessarily van Gundy's fault, per se. He?s just simply suggesting the Pelicans are done listening to Stan. True / False

Coaches are human beings too, with a job description and sometimes that job and your ability to do that job is compromised. True / False

Not because of lack of knowledge; it?s because people are tired of hearing your voice and that?s entirely plausible when it comes to Stan van Gundy. True / False

Despite the spin, it is what it is.

You know what the first sign of insanity is?

The second sign is quoting your own giant post on a message board for no particular reason

[Eman5805]

Damn it. I’m still not over Jayson Tatum.

[HornetGuru]

Damn it. I’m still not over Jayson Tatum.

What about him

[Eman5805]

What about him

Just me prisoner of the momenting about him.

[Pelicanidae]

Just me prisoner of the momenting about him.

I don't think it's being a prisoner of the moment. He's been on a clear upward trajectory as a two way star for years, and despite having a rough patch this season after he came back from COVID (he takes an inhaler now, he says) he's still ranked as a top 30 player in most impact metrics.

Ridiculously talented player with still room to grow. He turned 23 only 2 months ago.

[Eman5805]

Oh no. I still think Tatum is better than Ingram. But I didn't say much about him until he dropped, what, 50?

[UNO Gracias]

This thread has gone off the rails, but we haven’t had our Kwame Brown moment yet.

Btw, Kwame has a great singing voice.

[Pelicanidae]

Oh no. I still think Tatum is better than Ingram. But I didn't say much about him until he dropped, what, 50?

50, for this game. He had 60 a few weeks ago as well. And 53 a few weeks before that.

[Taker597]

I really can't be upset about not getting Tatum... Celtics Gm is so up his own ****** that he doesn't understand fair value or much desire to winning a championship. He cares about winning trades outright. Which is weird. We weren't getting him. Celtics could of easily gotten a chip too with that core of AD, Walker, Brown, Hayward, and Smart.

If I had the choice between Ingram, Ball, Hart and 5 Picks vs. Tatum, Picks, and Piece of mind that I never got to see Ball in a Pelicans Uniform. I run to the fax machine to accept that trade.

[Pelicanidae]

I really can't be upset about not getting Tatum... Celtics Gm is so up his own ****** that he doesn't understand fair value or much desire to winning a championship. He cares about winning trades outright.

Ainge is very interesting because on the one hand, he's built a team that hasn't missed the playoffs in years, has had conference finals trips, young talent, veteran all-stars, etc, it's all good.

But on the other hand, he's also an example of exactly what you don't want to do in a trade. He had all the assets in the world at one point, he was in the best position in the league from an assets perspective, but he was always waiting for that perfect trade where they got a championship for free (or at least minimum cost). That's an understandable desire but it just doesn't work like that.

He passed up on AD, passed on PG13, passed on Kawhi, passed on Jimmy Butler, and arguably passed on Harden as well, all players they could conceivably have gone after, and all players that would have been more helpful to them becoming actual, legitimate title contenders than someone like Tristan Thompson, Aaron Nesmith, Romeo Langford, or even Kemba Walker, which is the talent pool they've actually ended up with.

Of course Tatum and Brown are hits, and Smart is a really nice additional piece. But imagine if instead of Walker/Brown/Tatum, their core was Kawhi/Brown/Tatum, or Butler/Brown/Tatum, assuming they had cashed in on all the assets including some of their own picks?

A lesson for all GMs: don't be stupid and reckless, but don't be afraid to pull the trigger for a sure fire superstar. Talent wins.

[new city champ]

Davis was never going to commit to Boston, so I think Tatum was always pie-in-the-sky. But more interesting and more realistic was the possibility of Holiday going to Boston in exchange for Jaylen Brown in the 2019 offseason...

[HornetGuru]

Just me prisoner of the momenting about him.

Did we have a chance to get him or am I missing something? Like are we talking for the AD trade? Was it ever a fact that Tatum was on the table?

[HornetGuru]

Davis was never going to commit to Boston, so I think Tatum was always pie-in-the-sky. But more interesting and more realistic was the possibility of Holiday going to Boston in exchange for Jaylen Brown in the 2019 offseason...

This this this, I said repeatedly I wanted Brown so bad and that he was gonna be a stud. Had quite a few people tell me I was wrong, but I’m thinking I was right. If we had Brown right now, sheesh.

[Taker597]

Davis was never going to commit to Boston, so I think Tatum was always pie-in-the-sky. But more interesting and more realistic was the possibility of Holiday going to Boston in exchange for Jaylen Brown in the 2019 offseason...

Kawhi didn't commit to Toronto, but they won a championship. Isn't the point of all of this is to win chips? Ainge just thinks he knows better, but if he isn't bending teams over with bad trades. He is really a one note GM that hasn't gotten to one finals. It's just weird.

[Pelicanidae]

Kawhi didn't commit to Toronto, but they won a championship. Isn't the point of all of this is to win chips? Ainge just thinks he knows better, but if he isn't bending teams over with bad trades. He is really a one note GM that hasn't gotten to one finals. It's just weird.

Yeah, it's kinda this situation. Kawhi left, every Toronto fan knew that was the likely outcome, but I've never seen or spoken to one Toronto fan who regrets the trade. They all acknowledge that it was worth it.

Ainge doesn't do that. He doesn't do trades unless they are perfect for him, and as time's gone by GMs are making fewer and fewer of these mistakes for him to capitalise on.

[new city champ]

The problem for Ainge was that if he traded Tatum for Davis with no commitment from AD, a year later he winds up without Tatum, Davis or Kyrie. That was a no go all the way. If Kyrie re-ups, maybe he pulls the trigger without a commitment from Davis.

[Pelicanidae]

The problem for Ainge was that if he traded Tatum for Davis with no commitment from AD, a year later he winds up without Tatum, Davis or Kyrie. That was a no go all the way. If Kyrie re-ups, maybe he pulls the trigger without a commitment from Davis.

Sure, but Tatum was almost certainly never on the table.

The most commonly discussed trade at the time was centred around Brown and picks, with potentially Smart included.

Kyrie+Tatum+AD+Horford (who was still there and still good at the time) would have been a championship level team that year.

Of course, Kyrie was always likely to leave so that's a critique worth keeping in mind for the AD deal, but that doesn't justify Ainge passing up on Kawhi, Butler, PG13, Harden, etc.

There's always a justification for why he might have passed on any individual player. But that's the thing: there is always a risk when making this kind of trade. Superstars cost a lot of assets. But nothing will increase your championship odds in one move like adding a top 15 player to your roster.

Toronto traded their all-time leading scorer, their leader in all-time games player, who was a 4x allstar with them and who was only 28 years old in the Kawhi deal. If Kawhi had walked and they didn't win the chip, they would have lost him for nothing, especially cause Green left as well. That was a big risk, but it paid off and nobody regrets it.

If you want to win a chip you have to be willing to take risks. Sure, calculate the risks and don't put every egg into every basket, but when you're sat there asking whether you should pull the trigger and move a top 50 player for a top 15 player, the answer is almost always yes.

[Pelicanidae]

I'm just imagining the reactions Griff would get if he passed up on the deals that Ainge has.

If Griff had a deal ready to move Ingram, Hart in a S&T, and 4 firsts for Luka Doncic and then just decided ''nah''.

Or if he had something set up with a S&T for Lonzo, including NAW and Adams perhaps, plus 3 firsts for Jokic and just decided he wasn't interested.

Or if Lillard asked out and Griff had a deal on the table to send Portland 4 firsts and Ingram but decided not to bother.

We'd be ready to string him up.

[luckyman]

I'm just imagining the reactions Griff would get if he passed up on the deals that Ainge has.

If Griff had a deal ready to move Ingram, Hart in a S&T, and 4 firsts for Luka Doncic and then just decided ''nah''.

Or if he had something set up with a S&T for Lonzo, including NAW and Adams perhaps, plus 3 firsts for Jokic and just decided he wasn't interested.

Or if Lillard asked out and Griff had a deal on the table to send Portland 4 firsts and Ingram but decided not to bother.

We'd be ready to string him up.

Let's be real and truly not be prisoners of the moment. If we're talking Luka, Dallas could probably land any player not in the legit top 10, 1st team All-NBA category. Ainge would probably trade Tatum for Luka straight up after how this year has went. They are NOT supposed be .500 in the east, fighting in the play-in, likely about to get swept by the Nets. Boston doesn't roll that way.

There are lots of questions if the Tatum/Brown duo can work long-term. Not enough playmaking between them and constant cries about iso ball. Throw in Kemba, and it's why Ainge has been spouting off about "changes coming" recently. Luka/Brown would seem like a match made in heaven. But again, we are talking about a legit top 5 player in the league in Luka.

[Lee2000]

I think it is reasonable to ask if Van Gundy is the man. This guy came in with defense as his middle name and his team finished at the bottom. He talked it all year and yet this team continue to turn the ball over and play poor defense. Somebody didn't get the message, and it was not just the favorite goats like Beldsoe. On the surface I saw a group of young players playing hard but still not responding to their coach. There just seemed to be a disconnect. Given the youth of the team you expect mental breakdowns. But if you are ownership your worse nightmare is starting, and that is giving Zion a reason to want out.

[Lee2000]

On paper this team should not be home during the playoffs or play-in. There is a ton of talent. But the words on paper have to come to life and all that potential just didn't happen. It was so hard to watch this team at times. Less than entertaining. I am ok with that if there is winning. At least at one time in the year New Orleans led the league in scoring and was dead last in defense. That makes for fun and stress in the same game. it was just hard to watch when the team fell apart at critical times.

[luigi modelo]

Very on brand for him though

very

[Silverfoxx]

Van Gundy has been here for less than a year without a training camp/ off season. This is the dumbest comparison I have seen in a while.

What separates this situation with the Knicks? I'm tired of this "no training camp, a pandemic" excuse. 29 other teams went through the same thing. Thibs and SVG came in with a similar situation expressing defensive focus. Both had a young team, barely any training camp, and one greatly exceeded expectations and players bought in ranking#1 in defense the other team has its two best players throwing subliminal shots at not being a fan of the coach with some of the worst defense in the league.
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