Tyreke?Originally Posted by pelafanatic
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Tyreke?
Yes, and my point was that Bledsoe's success as a player came from a system that he did not create. You cannot expect someone to ''bring leadership'' with them to a team when they were never responsible for leadership in their old team - he slotted into the system, he did not define it - and who has a long history of disengaging and sulking when he isn't feeling it.
The skill issue is another point, sure, but your initial point about leadership is still an unfair comparison with regards to Bledsoe; nobody in their right mind actually believed Bledsoe would bring responsibility and leadership, it was one of the central complaints nearly everyone had about him. With Adams it's slightly more understandable as a critique, but even then, did Adams fail? How much can you expect a single player to do, when we know of the disconnect between coaching and FO, the dysfunction at the actual leadership positions (Lonzo and Bledsoe), etc?
Basketball.
Our argument is that Lowry brings that leadership and accountability while also providing all star caliber PG play. You can get a guy like Lowry while also building for the future. I don't think there's anyone out there saying that the Suns aren't set up for the future because of the CP3 acquisition.
Bledsoe also just did not provide the accountability we had hoped for, obviously.
I think I'm still on team Adams was good when the team wasn't entirely dysfunctional.
Yeah I think he was fine. Highly flawed player, sure, but very good at the things he does. I just think people expected stuff from him that they were never going to get, and combined with his stretch of injuries in the first half of the season it's coloured people's perceptions of him negatively.
Contributor
I agree
But at no point did the Adams signing seem like a good idea to me nor most basketball fans. The duo of he and Zion in the frontcourt was undoubtedly the worst shooting combo in the league. Plus neither protects the rim. How much more uncomplimentary can one be?
I do like his professionalism and grit being on display for our younger players, but it brings about losses. He really cant score on a pick n pop nor a pick n roll. I liked both of our other centers better
Lowry would be amazing here but the only issue is will he want to come here? Also, he would only be the first piece, we still would need two other great players to join esp to add to our bench if our starting line up is Lowry, Naw, BI, Zion and Jaxson. We still need two players who can consistently knock down threes.
In a world where we're trying to win a ring in one offseason, sure. But right now we're just trying to go from lottery team to solid playoff team. Obviously if you can do better than that in one year, do it, but at a certain point you just have to take upgrades when they're on the table without worrying about what you'd have to add after.
True, I understand what you're saying but to add Lowry, what's the sales pitch? He wants to win another Championship, so if they even get a meeting w/ him they have to tell him they're thinking about bringing in this player for this reason to get there. It can't just be to make the playoffs (which I know it is essentially right now but to land him it has to be more). So what's the overall plan, I know if I was a FA and a team was courting me, that would be my question.
Plus the other thing is Griff seems to think adding a vet player is all we need to do. He tried it w/ Favors then Bled and Adams. It has not worked. Now, I know Lowry is head and shoulders better than all three of these guys and that's why I would love him here but Griff needs to focus on providing the coach w/ the players needed on the court to win. Not just vet presence to aid the young guys so they can know about team cohesion. His focus needs to be about acquiring the best players to play together to win games no matter vet or not.
In other words, provide us w/ some shooters so Zion will have the spacing he needs to work. Lol.
This
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/kyle...#post-42695029
If we end up trading the 10th pick in a quality draft just to acquire Lowry in a sign and trade, as Oleh from thebirdwrites.com suggests, then that will be another example of a terrible overpay by a terrible GM in David Griffin. The max I would give up would be a 2021 2nd and the Lakers 2022 1st for the Raptors to take on Bledsoe and facilitate us getting Lowry on a 3 year $75 million deal.
Ah I see, I thought you meant actual people with some knowledge of the game, not just a bunch of people posting ''Zion gonna be a Laker'' and ''Lowry isn't a PG that elevates talent''.
I mean sure, anyone can find a group of idiots saying anything. Just today, someone was posting on Twitter that Tim Duncan and Giannis aren't ''real hoopers'', they're ''just basketball players''. This was the same guy who said that Luka Doncic shouldn't have gone in the lottery and still claims to have been correct on that. There's a moron out there willing to share any given take.
The max you would give up is a completely lopsided deal that favours us massively to acquire an extremely impactful and good player on a below market contract? Wild.
Did Phoenix trade the 10th pick for Chris Paul? No, they traded a 2022 first round pick and salary filler, which is what I am proposing. I’d even sweeten the deal with a 2nd round pick or 2. That is an example of an appropriate trade of 2 front offices that understand value. Kyle Lowry could just as easily fall off a cliff as a player in a year or 2 and become a bad contract as he could make us a consistent winner. See Eric Bledsoe, Steven Adams, and Chris Paul as a Rocket (terrible fit.)
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 07-19-2021 at 10:33 PM.
They were trading with OKC, who were - notably - accepting salary ballast and picks and had basically zero interest in actually retaining CP3. They wanted him out of there and wanted picks for it. I don't think the situation is quite the same with Toronto who, by all reports, would largely be fine with keeping Lowry and who aren't currently in the process of amassing history's largest pick hoard.
Most good, realistic trades end up making fans of both teams feel slightly ripped off. Your proposed deal would be daylight robbery on the behalf of the Pels. ''Here, take a player we don't want whatsoever, plus a second round pick, plus a pick that could well be like #26, for your 6 time all-star two way franchise player.''
Honestly, this seems like a Danny Ainge type position to have. ''I won't make any deal, the maximum I would consider is me totally robbing you.'' That''s the mentality that results in not actually getting anything done because you refuse to actually give up anything of value.
I think Lowry is atop Miami's wish list, and they have the ability to just sign him outright. Now, we can outbid Miami and then based on that contract make it a sign and trade with Toronto. In that scenario, Toronto's choices are to let him go to Miami for nothing or take what we are willing to offer to get Lowry. In that scenario, I think Bledsoe and the Lakers 2022 pick would be better than losing him for nothing
And if Philly or someone else comes along and beats that, then they can have him. That would be my stance if I were Griff. Happy to pay Lowry for 2-3 years (22-24 per season) and I'll give up a 'meh' first for him and Bledsoe or Adams. But I wouldnt give up more than that, and if someone else beats my money or assets offered, cool
@mcnamara247
I guess I agree with your parameters in order to get rid of Bledsoe, however I cringe at the idea of adding a 35/36 year old, 6' 0" point guard whose best basketball is behind him. I also wonder if inserting him into an already-weak defensive lineup is the best route to take. Finally, I also admit that there is a part of me that wonders if a 31 year old engaged, Eric Bledsoe might not be a better option at this point in their respective careers. But, I think that boat has already set sail.
Last edited by As I See It; 07-20-2021 at 06:30 AM.
A declining Jessica Alba is still way hotter and will always be than a young Rosie O'Donnell.
The value of Lowry would be the value of PJ Brown - but even better on the court. For the young kids, PJ Brown was a declining big but David West swears that he wouldnt have been close to the same player he ended up becoming if he didnt have Brown as a mentor/teammate.
To me, this is the Adams scenario all over again. How much do you pay for mentorship, culture, etc? In the Adams case, I would have paid the MLE. I would have sent them Bledsoe, Miller and a few 2nds. He is a fine player. There would have been acceptable prices I would have paid. What Griff gave was 300% of what I would have paid.
With Lowry, he is still a top 60 player. Likely will be top 100 level player for next 2 years. Year 3, I dont know. But if I give him a year 3 deal and he falls off the cliff year 3, I can use him as an expiring. In the meanwhile, I think he is at least 50% better than Bledsoe was last year for the next two years and I think he will be immensely valuable to NAW and Kira. That has value, and I have set my limits appropriately
Contributor
Not like Lowry is going to suddenly forget how to shoot and pass. Would we have flexibility to do something major if the opportunity arises by the trade deadline comes up? If our trade ability goes from a sold A to an A- or B+ I’d be willing to roll with Lowry. Hell. Only thing we’d be losing is a low value Lakers pick.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Miami would have to renounce Oladipo in order to sign Lowry outright. Otherwise, they’re going to have to include Dragic in a sign and trade, which I see no chance of unless he is deciding to retire. That would be a horrible move for them from an optics standpoint.
The 76ers would basically have to include every depth piece they have in order to make the money work. Not to say they wouldn’t, but we just watched them miss out on James Harden because of their reluctance to include Maxey. I can’t imagine they would then turn around and trade him for Kyle Lowry.
All signs point to Lowry being the Pelicans to lose imo. The question will be are they comfortable with a number, and can they find someone to take on Bledsoe.
As for Lowry remaining with Toronto, I don’t see him as the type of guy to return to the Raptors only to lose playing time to Suggs. Rumors are that he doesn’t care about going to a contender as much as he wants generational wealth, but I believe he still wants to compete. Pels can offer that balance of competitiveness and money.
Why would Miami be dying to keep an injured Oladipo or an overpaid Dragic (who has a team option btw)
Heat have more than 40 mil in cap room by just letting Dragic and Iggy go and renouncing rights to an injured Oladipo. Can sign Lowry and another decent player, then re-sign Robinson, whose cap hold is really low. Lets say they add Batum and Blake with the rest of their FA money and just go all out on vets to try and win. Could have a top 9 of
Lowry-Butler-Robinson-Batum-Bam
Herro-Blake-Nunn-Precious
Good combination of vets and youth, plus you know they will find/develop some other guys like KZ Okpala . I would consider Miami the overwhelming favorite in the Lowry sweepstakes. Followed by NY, then the Pels
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