Pels Off season thread

[13 - 3]

Lmao no. I?m not trading a young all star to move up 7 spots in the draft.

Yeah. If anything we could trade back knowing Grif.

[As I See It]

Possibly. But certainly has not shown yet that he is really a full time PG. Maybe that will change.

This

[As I See It]

Lmao no. I?m not trading a young all star to move up 7 spots in the draft.

Exactly. The dislike of the most complete player currently on the roster is mindboggling.

[6warddude]

why some of yall making it so hard to build around ingram and zion?...

[HornetGuru]

I literally think every player we start besides Zion and Ingram need to be a 3 and D, even the center honestly but a point could be made that we need a post up big so I would be fine with it since it would be like having a traditional center because Zion will be point guard but also most teams with a tradition post game Center have a point guard that can shoot.

Players like brogdon fit well because he can shoot and defend. Powell would be nice too. I still can?t wrap my head around why we wouldn?t want Myles Turner. Stretches the floor and defends the rim. Maybe his defense is bad but he just gets blocks so it appears good?

[Butters]

What is everyone’s opinion on Moses Moody? I think he might be available for the Pels at 10.

[AusPel]

What is everyone’s opinion on Moses Moody? I think he might be available for the Pels at 10.

I feel like Sactown is gonna frick us over again

[Silverfoxx]

I feel like Sactown is gonna frick us over again

I'm expecting Moody to Sac, it's just makes too much sense and it's going to be a sequel to last year.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I'm expecting Moody to Sac, it's just makes too much sense and it's going to be a sequel to last year.

Sacto likes Wagner. Thats the buzz around the league. I would be more worried about Golden State if they keep the pick. OKC and Orlando will go for more upside.

[HornetGuru]

Moody is about as good as a fit as we could ask for

[MichaelMcNamara]

Whoever we pick wont play. Definitely wont start. So why should "fit" matter?

IF we keep the pick (unlikely), you take the guy you think has the best chance to be a high level starter/All Star. And/or the guy you think will have the most trade value in the next 6-18 months.

You dont draft best fit. Now, if you think Moody is either of the things I.mentioned, take him. But not because he is "best fit"

[MichaelMcNamara]

There are only two realistic positive outcomes according to history:

1. You draft a guy who is an All Star level or close and he is a part of your core

2. You draft a guy who has positive value to be a major piece of a trade for a top end player

Drafting great fit, high end role players in the top 10, 12, 14.... that stay with you long term, just doesnt happen. And its because of that 2nd contract. To give you an idea of why its problematic - look at even the best case scenario, Mikal Bridges. Has been great for Phoenix. But this summer, they are going to have contract talks with him and his agent will start at 4/100. And while Bridges is great, you can get similar production from a veteran MLE guy (like they did with Crowder). And again, that is the absolute best case scenario. Same will happen with De'Andre Hunter.

You look back at history and the only guys who stayed long term with their teams are the guys who became top end players. Not the good role players (with the exception of Marcus Smart). And its because of that 2nd contract. If he shows anything at all, you gotta overpay him. And teams are starting to learn this and thats why they will go boom or bust over the safer role player. Because if he booms, you are happy to give him a max. If he busts, you can get off him and move on rather than have the 'Otto Porter' dilemma where you either gotta let him walk and infuriate your fan base and look cheap to players, or massively overpay him

[Pelifan]

There are only two realistic positive outcomes according to history:

1. You draft a guy who is an All Star level or close and he is a part of your core

2. You draft a guy who has positive value to be a major piece of a trade for a top end player

Drafting great fit, high end role players in the top 10, 12, 14.... that stay with you long term, just doesnt happen. And its because of that 2nd contract. To give you an idea of why its problematic - look at even the best case scenario, Mikal Bridges. Has been great for Phoenix. But this summer, they are going to have contract talks with him and his agent will start at 4/100. And while Bridges is great, you can get similar production from a veteran MLE guy (like they did with Crowder). And again, that is the absolute best case scenario. Same will happen with De'Andre Hunter.

You look back at history and the only guys who stayed long term with their teams are the guys who became top end players. Not the good role players (with the exception of Marcus Smart). And its because of that 2nd contract. If he shows anything at all, you gotta overpay him. And teams are starting to learn this and thats why they will go boom or bust over the safer role player. Because if he booms, you are happy to give him a max. If he busts, you can get off him and move on rather than have the 'Otto Porter' dilemma where you either gotta let him walk and infuriate your fan base and look cheap to players, or massively overpay him

Phx isn't in the finals without Bridges. He's better than Crowder. Even if they let him walk and he doesn't improve they will have gotten 3 years of 15 million per year level production for less than 5 million annually, especially at a position that's notoriously hard to fill.

Also identifying the guy with star potential available in the late lottery is easier said than done. medical concerns like MPJ's aside, did anyone really believe SGA could really be this good? Thompson and Booker were billed as safe, high floor/low ceiling, shooters. It's easy to say Moody is going to be a role player and that's his ceiling, that's what he looks like to me too, but there's a real possibility his ceiling is much higher than that. People get this stuff wrong all the time. I can see this as the argument against someone like Kispert who pretty clearly has a role player ceiling, or at least his chance at becoming a star is less than 1%. But for most of the guys in the 10 range, I think it's hard to put a hard ceiling on them, even the ones I dislike like Wagner.

And on 2nd contracts, I think a lot of people thought Brown was that role player and that the Celtics overpaid for his extension, at least I remember that being the popular sentiment at the time. But that contract is looking pretty good now.

I don't know, Bridges on 25mil a year is probably still pretty tradeable. Otto Porter was before he hit the injury bug. Harrison Barnes is probably not even negative value right now either. Obviously every team would love to have 3 max allstar guys eating their cap space but that's just not realistic and you have to do something else with the money.

All that said... Dont pay Lonzo.

[ScoutWannabe]

Whoever we pick wont play. Definitely wont start. So why should "fit" matter?

IF we keep the pick (unlikely), you take the guy you think has the best chance to be a high level starter/All Star. And/or the guy you think will have the most trade value in the next 6-18 months.

You dont draft best fit. Now, if you think Moody is either of the things I.mentioned, take him. But not because he is "best fit"

I yourself agree. Best Player Available not drafting for need. In my opinion it's 3 guys in this order:

Jalen Johnson
James Bouknight
Davion Mitchell

If those 3 are gone, I'd trade back.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Phx isn't in the finals without Bridges. He's better than Crowder. Even if they let him walk and he doesn't improve they will have gotten 3 years of 15 million per year level production for less than 5 million annually, especially at a position that's notoriously hard to fill.

Also identifying the guy with star potential available in the late lottery is easier said than done. medical concerns like MPJ's aside, did anyone really believe SGA could really be this good? Thompson and Booker were billed as safe, high floor/low ceiling, shooters. It's easy to say Moody is going to be a role player and that's his ceiling, that's what he looks like to me too, but there's a real possibility his ceiling is much higher than that. People get this stuff wrong all the time. I can see this as the argument against someone like Kispert who pretty clearly has a role player ceiling, or at least his chance at becoming a star is less than 1%. But for most of the guys in the 10 range, I think it's hard to put a hard ceiling on them, even the ones I dislike like Wagner.

And on 2nd contracts, I think a lot of people thought Brown was that role player and that the Celtics overpaid for his extension, at least I remember that being the popular sentiment at the time. But that contract is looking pretty good now.

I don't know, Bridges on 25mil a year is probably still pretty tradeable. Otto Porter was before he hit the injury bug. Harrison Barnes is probably not even negative value right now either. Obviously every team would love to have 3 max allstar guys eating their cap space but that's just not realistic and you have to do something else with the money.

All that said... Dont pay Lonzo.

As I said...Bridges is the absolute best case scenario. The outlier of outliers. And in a different universe, Phoenix is out in the 1st round this year. But yes, it is one of the few times that a team drafted a role player high and it seems to have worked for now. But FAR more often, the high end role player taken in the lotto does eventually become a role player, but for another team. Look at every high end role player in the league right now and ask; a) Were they drafted by the team they were on and b) How much value did they provide to the team that drafted them?

The only players that really stick with the teams that draft them long term are the high end players. Because of that 2nd contract and/or because the vast majority of 20-23 yr olds dont want to accept so early in their career that they are just a role player. Especially when they are drafted that high. They want the chance to show they can be so much more and it is only when they fail or get humbled by getting passed around the league so much that they accept it.

[JunkHead]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ing-Up-To-No-1

"Cavs, Rockets, Pelicans, Thunder Inquire With Pistons On Moving Up To No. 1"

[hornetzplaya]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ing-Up-To-No-1

"Cavs, Rockets, Pelicans, Thunder Inquire With Pistons On Moving Up To No. 1"

Honestly, we have nothing of consummate value for them to give it up.

[Silverfoxx]

Honestly, we have nothing of consummate value for them to give it up.

Ingram and future picks can't beat out the the Thunder deal of SGA and future picks based on the Thunder picks likely being higher than ours. Oh well


I'm more intrigued by the philosophy of the front office plan of attack to improve this team. The fact that they are open to possibly grabbing a younger player to improve this team says alot. Or maybe it says they would have flipped the pick for a young vet haha

[jaxmc1023]

Ingram and future picks can't beat out the the Thunder deal of SGA and future picks based on the Thunder picks likely being higher than ours. Oh well


I'm more intrigued by the philosophy of the front office plan of attack to improve this team. The fact that they are open to possibly grabbing a younger player to improve this team says alot. Or maybe it says they would have flipped the pick for a young vet haha

You have to make sure your name is on that list just so Zion can see it

[AusPel]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ing-Up-To-No-1

"Cavs, Rockets, Pelicans, Thunder Inquire With Pistons On Moving Up To No. 1"

Welp, Zion is officially now on the table

[bradael]

It’s probably to see the cost to flip #1 for Beal or Lillard

[13 - 3]

Welp, Zion is officially now on the table

I would say everything but him. They take the janitor too. Our team might be two players. Zion and Cade if this trade were to happen.

[PaKwAn]

I would say everything but him. They take the janitor too. Our team might be two players. Zion and Cade if this trade were to happen.

And Eric Bledsoe...

[Eman5805]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ing-Up-To-No-1

"Cavs, Rockets, Pelicans, Thunder Inquire With Pistons On Moving Up To No. 1"

Due diligence. Nothing more. If you know what it takes to get the top pick, then you know what it might take to get the 5th. Like if we can get Lillard. And the Blazers GM is love jonesing hard for Jalen Green who is available there for whatever reason. We know what itll take to get him.

It’s just due J diligence.

[Pels247]

As I said...Bridges is the absolute best case scenario. The outlier of outliers. And in a different universe, Phoenix is out in the 1st round this year. But yes, it is one of the few times that a team drafted a role player high and it seems to have worked for now. But FAR more often, the high end role player taken in the lotto does eventually become a role player, but for another team. Look at every high end role player in the league right now and ask; a) Were they drafted by the team they were on and b) How much value did they provide to the team that drafted them?

The only players that really stick with the teams that draft them long term are the high end players. Because of that 2nd contract and/or because the vast majority of 20-23 yr olds dont want to accept so early in their career that they are just a role player. Especially when they are drafted that high. They want the chance to show they can be so much more and it is only when they fail or get humbled by getting passed around the league so much that they accept it.

I don't understand why you keep saying you can't draft guys because 4-5 years down the road you might have to overpay to keep them.....in reality that draft pick is probably only worth an overpaid/unused player. I'd rather have a cost controlled solid player like deandre hunter or mikal bridges over trading for an overpaid guy currently. If teams really viewed draft picks this way why would anyone trade anyone of value for them? Instead of worrying about paying them we should concentrate on being a better drafting team because that is how we will need to build the team.