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Thread: Pels Off season thread

  1. #501
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    To say the Pelicans got the same production from Adams as they did some 2/35 JAG is a line of horse manure. Straight up. Not everything Adams does you will find in some traditional box score. All the ways he cleared the paint for Zion to easily score is a stat you have to dig for. His on/off contributions on defense are evident, but you have to dig for that too.

    It would have been a complete waste of time to go sign someone like Aron Baynes (somebody on here suggested this...), who might have played himself out of the league. You don't make stupid decisions like that to tank your season before it starts when you have to deal with young players that actually want to win games. It can't be done.

    Adams was just one necessary piece and sometimes you cant fill every single hole in one off season. They couldn't find a proper stretch big last year, so now you STILL have the flexibility to find one this year, Adams on the team or not. Sabonis or Myles Turner are still very much in play among others.

    And even last year, I said the team knew all of its options when they signed Adams. And we now know they very much could have traded Redick, because Redick asked them to. The Pelicans CHOSE not to do that.

    Signing Adams didnt hamstring them. That was their choice to not move Redick. Whether you agree with that or not is another discussion. I would have absolutely moved Redick back then.
    Defense is lot easier to play when you can play five on four, so Adams at the high post gives this team nothing accept another defensive body in the paint for us to deal with (see Antonio Daniel's constant mention of 'The Wall"). He's very limited offensively and not a heck of lot better defensively in today's game (do you really think he can guard the Joker, Embiid, Bam, Gobert, or even AD and be successful or would we have to 'hide' him?). He's got hands of stone and his availability is game to game. Couple that with the fact that Zion has trouble playing defense on the perimeter, so, our five sure in the hell better be able to.

    Did we forget so quickly that we were horrible defending the three this past year?
    Last edited by As I See It; 06-19-2021 at 05:51 PM.
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Our only hope is that someone else is as foolish as Griff (or some of the fans on this board) and they think Adams has some value. But I just think other centers who are better and cheaper can be had this offseason so why would anyone take on Adams, even if he was free?
    I think Charlotte could be interested for neutral value. Monk or Graham sign and trade maybe.

    I still think Adams is at least an average starter, but he's definitely of the low value archetype and you can get a guy who brings 80-90% of what he does for the min.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Defense is lot easier to play when you can play five on four, so Adams at the high post gives this team nothing accept another defensive body in the paint for us to deal with (see Antonio Daniel's constant mention of 'The Wall"). He's very limited offensively and not a heck of lot better defensively in today's game (do you really think he can guard the Joker, Embiid, Bam, Gobert, or even AD and be successful or would we have to 'hide' him?). He's got hands of stone and his availability is game to game. Couple that with the fact that Zion has trouble playing defense on the perimeter, so, our five sure in the hell better be able to.

    Did we forget so quickly that we were horrible defending the three this past year?
    You just listed out a bunch on MVP candidate bigs whom were guarded by no one. Bam didn't exactly tear this team up against Adams the one game they matched. Adams is not a scoring big, but hands of stone?

    When I say they need to find a stretch big, that doesn't mean just on offense.

    Who are these bigs that can do 9/10 of what Adams does for the vet minimum exactly? Because they can still sign these guys now if they want to.
    Last edited by luckyman; 06-19-2021 at 05:59 PM.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    You just listed out a bunch on MVP candidate bigs whom were guarded by no one. Bam didn't exactly tear this team up against Adams the one game they matched. Adams is not a scoring big, but hands of stone?

    When I say they need to find a stretch big, that doesn't mean just on offense.
    Lucky, I'm not arguing with you, I only know if you wanna be in the mix, you got be able to deal with the best. If not, Adams is fine.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Lucky, I'm not arguing with you, I only know if you wanna be in the mix, you got be able to deal with the best. If not, Adams is fine.
    That takes a team effort. Adams, nor any other center in this league, can single-handedly shut down or slow down the players you just named. If they are on they are on.

    And Adams was still able to somewhat frustrate Embiid that 1st game here, Embiid's mid-range being off notwithstanding.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    That takes a team effort. Adams, nor any other center in this league, can single-handedly shut down or slow down the players you just named. If they are on they are on.

    And Adams was still able to somewhat frustrate Embiid that 1st game here, Embiid's mid-range being off notwithstanding.
    Going back to Mac's point, exactly what did Adams (at $27.5MM) give us that H'Gomez (at $1.7MM) did not? And if you can point to something that he did give us more of, was it worth $26MM more?

  7. #507
    There is nothing he will be able to point to. So he will hide behind the always popular "it doesnt show up in the box acore" BS

    But you know what...if I pay a guy 30 mil plus give up picks and flexibility for him, I kinda want something to show up in the box score. Call me greedy
    @mcnamara247

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    There is nothing he will be able to point to. So he will hide behind the always popular "it doesnt show up in the box acore" BS

    But you know what...if I pay a guy 30 mil plus give up picks and flexibility for him, I kinda want something to show up in the box score. Call me greedy
    As I said earlier, Mac, I totally agree with you.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    As I said earlier, Mac, I totally agree with you.
    I just cant believe there are still people holding on to the belief that it wasnt an absolute horrid trade.

    Like, its okay to say "Yeah I was wrong. Terrible trade but I hope Griff learns from it"

    But doubling down to defend it.....thats just BOLD

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Going back to Mac's point, exactly what did Adams (at $27.5MM) give us that H'Gomez (at $1.7MM) did not? And if you can point to something that he did give us more of, was it worth $26MM more?
    Lets begin by getting the contract correct. That $27 mil is last year's salary that was not signed here. He will make $17 mil here for possibly 2 years.

    What did Adams give that Hernangomez didnt? Yeah there's nothing I can point to....

    A higher ast %
    A better ast/TO ratio
    A much higher assist ratio
    A slightly higher TS%
    A lower usage rate
    A higher steal %
    Higher defensive WS
    Higher 2nd chance points
    A lower foul rate
    A better defensive Fg%
    A MUCH higher offensive and defensive box out per game rate
    Higher screen assists per 36 (5.3 v 4.3)
    Higher screen assist points per 36 (11.4 v 9.5)
    Higher deflections per 36 (1.9 v 1.6)

    Now given Adams average 28 mins per game and Billy 18 mins, I'm being generous using per 36 rates there. Those gaps are wider on a per game basis. Per 24 would be a better fit.

    Hernangomez did have a slightly higher rebound rate and a post up PPP of 0.98 to Adams 0.89.
    Yet Adams had a higher post up Fg% of 59% v 46%.

    Mind you Adams got his against all NBA front lines while Gomez did his work mostly against back ups.

    But if you want to argue that Hernangomez has similar value to Adams. I can't stop you. Hernangomez is a nice player, but he's a career back up.
    Last edited by luckyman; 06-19-2021 at 07:18 PM.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I just cant believe there are still people holding on to the belief that it wasnt an absolute horrid trade.

    Like, its okay to say "Yeah I was wrong. Terrible trade but I hope Griff learns from it"

    But doubling down to defend it.....thats just BOLD
    Honestly, if I'm the GM, it more of a priority to get rid of Adams then Bledsoe.

    You can work around Bledsoe (maybe even get something from him), or

    His value might be enhanced at the trade deadline, or

    You can just buy him out with the guarantee at the end of 21-22.

    The $35MM, 2 year extension for Adams severely hamstrings us in ways too numerous to mention. Think about it, the second highest paid player (depending on Lonzo) on the team next year will be Steven Adams. The second highest paid player on the Clippers is Kawhi Leonard...on the Suns is Devin Booker...on the Nuggets is Jamal Murray...on the Nets is Kevin Durant...yada...yada...yada.

    Would you entertain Porzingis for Adams +?

  12. #512
    I disagree. Adams will at least give you leadership and fit the culture. Bledsoe is neg on and off the court. You must trade Bledsoe before training camp. Youd like to trade Adams before camp but its not a MUST

  13. #513
    I don't see how anyone that follows the team could think getting rid of Adams is more important than getting rid of Bledsoe.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    I don't see how anyone that follows the team could think getting rid of Adams is more important than getting rid of Bledsoe.
    In order to fix this team you need either...

    Cap Space

    or

    Better Fit for Zion and Ingram.

  15. #515
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Adams was not a bad player to acquire. Doing what we did to get him to as very bad.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
    Adams was not a bad player to acquire. Doing what we did to get him to as very bad.
    I mean, because of the 2nd part of your sentence, he WAS a bad player to acquire.

    I think you are implying that if say he was signed with the MLE, he would be a good signing - which I would agree with. But the acquisition cost was disgusting on every level and has always been the issue

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I mean, because of the 2nd part of your sentence, he WAS a bad player to acquire.

    I think you are implying that if say he was signed with the MLE, he would be a good signing - which I would agree with. But the acquisition cost was disgusting on every level and has always been the issue
    Acquisition cost AND the inexplicable immediate extension

    Can you offer any insight into the thought process behind this?

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I mean, because of the 2nd part of your sentence, he WAS a bad player to acquire.

    I think you are implying that if say he was signed with the MLE, he would be a good signing - which I would agree with. But the acquisition cost was disgusting on every level and has always been the issue
    And now with his rear end starting to feel the heat, Griffin will be hell-bent to do something, even if it's only a "Steven Adams 2.0" deal. I'm terrified he will do this and squander yet more club assets. But to some, a "Steven Adams 2.0" deal would be great.
    Last edited by As I See It; 06-19-2021 at 08:52 PM.

  19. #519
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    If we get the first pick of the draft what do we do? I would ignore the noise and draft Cunningham.


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  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    If we get the first pick of the draft what do we do? I would ignore the noise and draft Cunningham.


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    Green for me. He could be the Durant on a championship team

  21. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    If we get the first pick of the draft what do we do? I would ignore the noise and draft Cunningham.


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    That can't be an absolute. You HAVE to do your due diligence and listen. Suppose Portland offers CJ, their #1 next year, and is willing to take Bledsoe off our books?
    Last edited by As I See It; 06-19-2021 at 09:10 PM.

  22. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    If we get the first pick of the draft what do we do? I would ignore the noise and draft Cunningham.


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    The first pick is the only pick we can get where we will keep it and draft someone

  23. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    That can't be an absolute. You HAVE to do your due diligence and listen. Suppose Portland offers CJ and is willing to take Bledsoe off our books?
    Thats an awful deal. The #1 pick is worth closer to a Lillard than a CJ. You get #1 and you are talking to Boston about Brown, OKC about SGA and a pick or two, Minny about KAT. Not Portland about CJ

  24. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    That can't be an absolute. You HAVE to do your due diligence and listen. Suppose Portland offers CJ, their #1, and is willing to take Bledsoe off our books?
    Using pick 1 as a virtual salary dump in a super draft?

    I have no words. Are you actually of sound mind

  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Using pick 1 as a virtual salary dump in a super draft?

    I have no words. Are you actually of sound mind
    CJ is a proven player. You are who you are, aren't you?

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