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Thread: Pels Off season thread

  1. #1551
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone;1563349
    Yeah. I see that, too. He also has Clutch in his ear. [B
    I don't necessarily think they are telling him anti-NOLA rhetoric but I absolutely think they are telling him he can be that all-star PG and that he can be that #1 or #2 and to chase that money.[/B] I'm very high on Ball and his trajectory but if I had to make a prediction, I don't think he's ready to accept a more off-the-ball role behind Zion and BI.
    For real. Being Robert Covington is great, he's super valuable and can provide immense impact in the right circumstance, but being Robert Covington doesn't get you MVP votes or $50m a year. It's helpful, it can be impactful, it can be important, but it's not the high glamour, legacy defining, super-max contract figure that being a truly elite offensive engine is.

    If you're Lonzo and you've spent your entire life up until the NBA being told you're Stephen Curry with a 40 inch vert, and then you get to the Lakers and they proclaim you as the next Magic, and your fanbase is as rabid as the Lonzo fanbase, and you get a TV show and your own brand, it's going to take a little while for reality to get through all of that and for you to realise that actually, you are more RoCo than Magic. That's probably not happening any time soon.
    Yannick Nzosa/Ousmane Dieng/Jean Montero/Nikola Jovic/Paolo Banchero endorser

    Eye test people: analytics people watch more basketball than you do.

  2. #1552
    The Franchise
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    I say go get Kemba. Use one of the firsts we get back for him to get Sexton and Nance. I?d think we?d get more than a first since we ain?t sending salary back. Use the extra stuff and Get Beasley and Bagley. Next year Kemba will be expiring so we use him in a bigger trade.

    Kemba, Kira
    Sexton, NAW, Beasley
    Ingram, Hart, Naji, Murphy
    Zion, Nance
    Val, Bagley, Hayes
    Last edited by tdcreator; 07-31-2021 at 09:28 PM.

  3. #1553
    Why would the Thunder give up a first to get off him? What do they care about his salary?

    They will move him for a worse contract next summer and GET a first
    @mcnamara247

  4. #1554
    Hey MM, you've mentioned in the past we've inquired about OG Anunoby, does the Raps drafting Barnes indicate they are shopping OG? Is there any more chatter around this?

  5. #1555
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    David Griffin sees Lonzo as a 3&D wing. Which is what he is most effective at, at least at this point in his career.

    It's not that helpful a lot of the time to try and give people secure ''positions''. It's more helpful to think of players as guards, wings, and bigs more generally I find - Lonzo is a wing, not a guard, by this estimation.

    In the broadest sense, guards (point guards, traditionally) bear a creation burden. They are shot creators. Lonzo is not that. Lonzo is mostly useful for his utility: he's not Kyle Korver but he can shoot well enough, he's not a shot creator but he can pass well, he's not a lockdown guy but he's fine enough off-ball on D. He fits a lot of roles but none of those roles involve being a primary ball handler, shot creator, on-ball threat, which are traditionally guard based activities.
    Disagree, I have no faith in Lonzo as a spot up perimeter shooter. Think he is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot. I?m ready for the Pelicans to move in from him, hopefully the qualifying offer is just part of a plan to get something for him.

  6. #1556
    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Disagree, I have no faith in Lonzo as a spot up perimeter shooter. Think he is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot. I?m ready for the Pelicans to move in from him, hopefully the qualifying offer is just part of a plan to get something for him.
    I got to a stage where, as a fan, I got excited when Lonzo got a wide open look from 3. He is a good shooter now. I think his defense is slightly overrated and I think his offensive game outside of shooting and passing is a bit underrated.

  7. #1557



    Hmmm.

  8. #1558
    Agree that Lonzo sees himself as a point guard and that is the major source of his unhappiness with Griffin and the Pels. Ball and his camp (which at this point includes Rich Paul and Klutch Sports) are committed to him playing the point and I think, if given the chance, Ball will work hard to get better at attacking the rim and tighten up his ball handling and decision making. Whether he can grow into a legit championship PG remains very much in question.

    But Griff may be able to square this circle. I thought Ball and NAW were an interesting backcourt in the very limited sample size we got to see. I could see Ball playing a hybrid ball handling role in the open court, maybe bringing the ball up, passing ahead on the break, but giving it off to NAW (or another lead guard, or Zion, or Brandon) when they go into half court sets. It would be a big back court with active hands and decent outside shooting and passing (assuming some growth from both guys). I wouldn't hate it. But if they could get Brogdon, I'd absolutely go that way first. Honestly, my biggest concern is that it didn't seem that any of our guards (except maybe Didi) could keep anyone out of the paint last year. Maybe it was scheme related...

  9. #1559

  10. #1560
    Quote Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth View Post
    Disagree, I have no faith in Lonzo as a spot up perimeter shooter. Think he is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot. I?m ready for the Pelicans to move in from him, hopefully the qualifying offer is just part of a plan to get something for him.
    Nah, he's a pretty reliable stand-still catch and shoot guy at this point. Not Kyle Korver, as I said, but he's solid at that.

    He is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot, but that's not because he's a terrible shooter it's because he's a top tier connective passer.

    I'm also ready for the Pels to move from him, I've been in favour of letting him go or S&Ting him (unless he's coming back for way below what most expect he will be paid), but that doesn't change the reality that he's improved a lot as a shooter over the past 2 years.

  11. #1561
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Nah, he's a pretty reliable stand-still catch and shoot guy at this point. Not Kyle Korver, as I said, but he's solid at that.

    He is better at finding a good pass than hitting an open shot, but that's not because he's a terrible shooter it's because he's a top tier connective passer.

    I'm also ready for the Pels to move from him, I've been in favour of letting him go or S&Ting him (unless he's coming back for way below what most expect he will be paid), but that doesn't change the reality that he's improved a lot as a shooter over the past 2 years.
    Do you want to move on from Lonzo so badly that failing on Lowry and overpaying Schoeder is an OK compromise?

  12. #1562
    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    Do you want to move on from Lonzo so badly that failing on Lowry and overpaying Schoeder is an OK compromise?
    No, but there's no need to be silly. It's not like the options are get Lowry or give Schroeder $20m.

    There's Lowry, there's Brogdon, there's still the ability to retain Lonzo if things are dire, there's trying to make a move for a smaller priced vet who can fill the role until we can make another move later, hell at the extreme end of things there's just going in and seeing how Kira does (not advised imo, but it's there). Technically speaking we haven't even fully ruled out CP3 yet either. This ''Lowry or Schroeder'' hypothetical you've set up is a bit weird.

    I want to move off Lonzo because I believe he is best suited to playing a role that doesn't justify the size of the paycheck he's likely to be offered by a team like Chicago. It is not, contrary to what some people seem to think, because I hate Lonzo on a personal level and want him gone from the team lest he continue to disgust me. It's all about basketball, return on investment, and long term cost/value.

  13. #1563
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    What yearly amount do you think the Duncan Robinson or Evan Fournier contract comes in at?
    Disclaimer: I would never denigrate or defame Zion Williamson as a man or as a basketball player; he will go down as an NBA great and perhaps a Top 10+ player of all time. Any inference derived from any of my posts to the contrary is your mischaracterization of my words, or a sign of insecurity on your part (perhaps both).

    Respectfully,

    AISI

  14. #1564
    I wouldn't mind Bobby Portis as our back up big man, he can play with Val and Zion easily..the problem is he would be our 3rd 4th big with Hayes...not sure if they would prioritize that after the Point guard spot gets solved

  15. #1565
    Part of me would rather just punt completely on PG if there isn't a good situation. Say we don't get Lowry etc and still move/let go Lonzo. We could still use that money for shooting/other elements. What if we did start Kira? He's not ready, but I'm more than a little intrigued. You'd have a lot of money to still upgrade the rotation considerably, and he'd learn on the job. With Point Zion/Ingram it wouldn't totally be on him and you can bring in a decent backup as well.

  16. #1566
    I understand you have to pay for great players, just seems like most of the names rumored to Pels are bloated contracts or short players. I don?t think Pels are one player away. Would prefer to bring in 2 or 3 reasonable contracts instead.

  17. #1567
    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    Part of me would rather just punt completely on PG if there isn't a good situation. Say we don't get Lowry etc and still move/let go Lonzo. We could still use that money for shooting/other elements. What if we did start Kira? He's not ready, but I'm more than a little intrigued. You'd have a lot of money to still upgrade the rotation considerably, and he'd learn on the job. With Point Zion/Ingram it wouldn't totally be on him and you can bring in a decent backup as well.
    I'm kinda w/ this if we can't get Lowry, Brogdon, Dragic. We could get Elfrid Payton (prob wouldn't take much), then Kira splits time w/ him. We then use our $$ and whatever other assets to get great shooters like Joe Ingles.

    I so hope Griff has a plan.
    Last edited by PELSGIRL; 08-01-2021 at 02:33 AM.

  18. #1568
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicans47 View Post
    I understand you have to pay for great players, just seems like most of the names rumored to Pels are bloated contracts or short players. I don?t think Pels are one player away. Would prefer to bring in 2 or 3 reasonable contracts instead.
    I believe the better option is bringing in a star guard, we have enough useful players under contract. I know our starting 5 last year was good enough for a playoff spot and the bench kinda let us down, but our inability to close games was also a glaring issue and that requires a closer. If I had my way I'd definitely be aiming at a trade with a team looking to clear cap space rather than throw money at Lowry.

  19. #1569
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    I'd love to trade for Brogdon, use the full MLE on Portis, resign Lonzo. Bring back Willy too as Jaxson Insurance.

    That's my dream off-season.

  20. #1570
    Quote Originally Posted by RUFshreve View Post
    I'd love to trade for Brogdon, use the full MLE on Portis, resign Lonzo. Bring back Willy too as Jaxson Insurance.

    That's my dream off-season.
    Starting to like this idea.

  21. #1571
    Quote Originally Posted by RUFshreve View Post
    I'd love to trade for Brogdon, use the full MLE on Portis, resign Lonzo. Bring back Willy too as Jaxson Insurance.

    That's my dream off-season.
    How we getting brogdon and keeping Zo?

  22. #1572
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    The light at the end of the tunnel?

    NOTE: This article was published yesterday

    https://clutchpoints.com/suns-rumors...zYqI42_-aEAva8
    Last edited by As I See It; 08-01-2021 at 08:45 AM.

  23. #1573
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    At 4/$80, if we strike out on Lowry, I think I would keep Ball. He could be a future asset in a trade if needed, rather than what we would get in a S&T.

  24. #1574
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    At 4/$80, if we strike out on Lowry, I think I would keep Ball. He could be a future asset in a trade if needed, rather than what we would get in a S&T.
    In the end, I believe we end up in Sign and Trade with ChiTown. They get Lonzo, we get Lauri Markkanen and Tomas Satoransky. Then, we flip Markkanen.

    Personally, if indeed Kira is the future, I would love to get Goran Dragic on a short deal.

  25. #1575
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    In the end, I believe we end up in Sign and Trade with ChiTown. They get Lonzo, we get Lauri Markkanen and Tomas Satoransky. Then, we flip Markkanen.

    Personally, if indeed Kira is the future, I would love to get Goran Dragic on a short deal.
    There is starting to be more smoke around Lonzo and the Bulls. Markkanen is the wild card for me. There are games when I feel he is hot garbage but then other games where he seems to get it. He is still young and I wonder if a change of scenery would be good for him. We don't need him to be a top 3 option - we just need him to knock down his perimeter shots which he is good at. I am also intrigued at running this lineup at periods in game: Zion, BI, Markkanen, NAW and whoever we get to run the point.

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