Brandon Ingram

[luckyman]

And Brown is who? The Celtics 3rd best defender, probably.

It's not a knock on Ingram. He's taken huge strides over the last few years and is a legitimate top 40 player. His offensive game has grown from strength to strength and he deserved his All Star selection last year. Got a max contract and earned it. He's really really great.

But it's precisely because he's so good that he doesn't need people exaggerating for him. He doesn't draw the best defender on the opposing team every night, or even most nights, because most nights that guy is glued to Zion along with three other help defenders. It doesn't devalue Ingram to acknowledge that fact - it does devalue him to pretend that anything he's not excellent at is because he's the subject of all the defensive attention. He's good enough to deserve an honest conversation.

I'm trying to stay away from all the ridiculousness around Brandon Ingram (which hasn't even stopped today), but this is just not accurate. Anyone around Celtics brass would put their defensive pecking order as Brown>>>Smart>>>Tatum. Tatum started off the game on BI but Smart switched to him often. Brown, the Celtics best defender, was on BI the 1st game. Zion started the game with Grant Williams on him. As he often draws the other team's PF, not their best defender.

BI does indeed not only often draw the other team's best defender, but as has been noted, doubles and traps.

We can't be on here talking about how BI rarely draws the other team's best defender, then turn around and complain he doesn't handle doubles and traps well.

[6warddude]

I'm trying to stay away from all the ridiculousness around Brandon Ingram (which hasn't even stopped today), but this is just not accurate. Anyone around Celtics brass would put their defensive pecking order as Brown>>>Smart>>>Tatum. Tatum started off the game on BI but Smart switched to him often. Brown, the Celtics best defender, was on BI the 1st game. Zion started the game with Grant Williams on him. As he often draws the other team's PF, not their best defender.

BI does indeed not only draw the other team's best defender, but as has been noted, doubles and traps.

We can't be on here talking about how BI rarely draws the other team's best defender, then turn around and complain he doesn't handle doubles and traps well.

lol yeah we reaching as you say weird levels on the board lol.....zion draws PF and C every night and majority of those players are not the best defenders on their team.....

[Taker597]

Best defender on team is such a casual reference that it really doesn't make much sense for sake of arguing when the game is all about matching up players like chess.

I'm not the biggest believer in positionless basketball either. There is just inherent advantage to physical measure able where the "best" defender just can't defend. It's like why Wolves constantly gives us fits and they're garbage. It's why I try to not bag Hart to much too much, because he's playing out of position and gets toast cause he shouldn't be defending Leonard, LeBron, or KD. You do the best you can with what you got.

I think a great defender in my book is probably someone that can guard 2 position, but really good at just one to be realistic. There probably only a dozen players that can. Best defender kind of a position criteria for me not a team hamfisted idea. It's a 5 man sport. Jrue was a top 5 defender. Probably the best combo guard defender in the league. I wouldn't say that he's a better defender than AD, because their position and roles weren't comparable.

[6warddude]

Best defender on team is such a casual reference that it really doesn't make much sense for sake of arguing when the game is all about matching up players like chess.

I'm not the biggest believer in positionless basketball either. There is just inherent advantage to physical measure able where the "best" defender just can't defend. It's like why Wolves constantly gives us fits and they're garbage. It's why I try to not bag Hart to much too much, because he's playing out of position and gets toast cause he shouldn't be defending Leonard, LeBron, or KD. You do the best you can with what you got.

I think a great defender in my book is probably someone that can guard 2 position, but really good at just one to be realistic. There probably only a dozen players that can. Best defender kind of a position criteria for me not a team hamfisted idea. It's a 5 man sport. Jrue was a top 5 defender. Probably the best combo guard defender in the league. I wouldn't say that he's a better defender than AD, because their position and roles weren't comparable.

in our case when we played GS in the playoffs..jrue did guard KD in that series which was crazy because all KD do was shoot over jrue head...imo in that series that should have been AD guarding KD because of position and height.... so for us, i say jrue was the better defender than AD...

[As I See It]

But it's precisely because he's so good that he doesn't need people exaggerating for him. He doesn't draw the best defender on the opposing team every night...

Couldn't this be said about HIM?

I think the pot and the kettle are one in the same

[As I See It]

lol yeah we reaching as you say weird levels on the board lol.....zion draws PF and C every night and majority of those players are not the best defenders on their team.....

Yep, I can't recall Luke Kornet on BI one time against Boston on Monday. On the other hand I recall Kornet matching up with HIM multiple times.

[PELICANSFAN]

And Brown is who? The Celtics 3rd best defender, probably.

It's not a knock on Ingram. He's taken huge strides over the last few years and is a legitimate top 40 player. His offensive game has grown from strength to strength and he deserved his All Star selection last year. Got a max contract and earned it. He's really really great.

But it's precisely because he's so good that he doesn't need people exaggerating for him. He doesn't draw the best defender on the opposing team every night, or even most nights, because most nights that guy is glued to Zion along with three other help defenders. It doesn't devalue Ingram to acknowledge that fact - it does devalue him to pretend that anything he's not excellent at is because he's the subject of all the defensive attention. He's good enough to deserve an honest conversation.

You are really undervaluing Brown's defense, likely because it relates to a BI discussion.

[HornetGuru]

You are really undervaluing Brown's defense, likely because it relates to a BI discussion.

This, Brown is a spectacular defender. Just as good as Smart, smart just gets more recognition

[Pelicanidae]

You are really undervaluing Brown's defense, likely because it relates to a BI discussion.

Not really. Brown is a good defender but I seem to be the only person this board who notices how incredibly bad he can be off-ball, particularly just losing where the ball is, forgetting his man, and at other times - almost paradoxically given his ball-losing tendencies - ballwatching to the extent that he misses entire plays.

Celtics fans fume about this. It's improved over time, absolutely, but he is not an elite defensive feel guy; everything for him is rote learned. In a relatively consistent defensive system like they play in Boston that often works out well but it means that he can be scrambled and lose touch with plays if anything unplanned happens.

Again, this isn't news: Celtics fans have been talking about this for literally years.

[sterlr]

We should have traded BI and kept Melli. He would have at least brought back two second rounders and a tube of Clearasil. SMH

You are dead right, where were these squirrels just three days ago? I guess you can find 24 (.475) and five a game on any Discount Shelf at Dollar Tree. So let's trade his A--.

The only issue I have with BI is his decision making at times (aka Celtics last game when we needed to run clock). He hoisted a shot 4 seconds into the shot clock with a 1 on 3 break.

[bogiesfedora]

Not really. Brown is a good defender but I seem to be the only person this board who notices how incredibly bad he can be off-ball, particularly just losing where the ball is, forgetting his man, and at other times - almost paradoxically given his ball-losing tendencies - ballwatching to the extent that he misses entire plays.

Celtics fans fume about this. It's improved over time, absolutely, but he is not an elite defensive feel guy; everything for him is rote learned. In a relatively consistent defensive system like they play in Boston that often works out well but it means that he can be scrambled and lose touch with plays if anything unplanned happens.

Again, this isn't news: Celtics fans have been talking about this for literally years.

I am with you his off ball defense is still pretty bad. At one point he was probably one of the worst in the league.

[luckyman]

I am with you his off ball defense is still pretty bad. At one point he was probably one of the worst in the league.

Let's not pretend this is really a thing.

Again, among Celtics fans and organization, if there is an opposing player that needs to be stopped, either Smart or Brown is who they rely on. And lately it's been Brown.

Which is the thing pertinent to this conversation. BI often draws the opponent's best defender. We are back in the PR weird zone where this even needs to be talked about.

[Brian]

Thought Brandon Ingram had one of his best games as a Pelican against Boston. He was completely engaged in every aspect from his defense to offense, but he spotted incredible effort and ability to not only find his teammates but he set them up for easy scores. Diving on that loose ball fired me up. That's the energy you want from your best player, and in crunch time he hit some huge shots. BI was really impressive.

[fullcourtpress]

BI is the truth. Know that. Is he ready yet? Not quite, but he’s really close. Stupid conversation

[Brian]

Marcus Smart is certainly the best defender for Boston. Brown is a very good on ball defender but he's not very good off the ball and team defense. These guys are all young and improving though.