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Thread: February 24th - New Orleans Pelicans VS Detroit Pistons - 13-17

  1. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by pr1840 View Post
    To put this in perspective, Lebron hasn’t had a game with 0 turnovers all year. Now obviously, at this point in his career, Zion isn’t creating for others at Lebron’s level yet, but he is getting there. And on the flip side, his shot is nowhere near Lebron’s yet, so he is driving into the teeth of a defense that knows exactly what is coming much more often, yet still cannot stop it. His handle and passing are growing by leaps and bounds this year. At this point he has proven to me that he has truly unlimited potential offensively. Defense remains the only question mark and I think we’ve seen improvement there over last year as well.

    We are incredibly fortunate that we get to watch the development of a potentially transcendent NBA talent.
    Mostly agree!

    I'd be absolutely stunned if Zion ever got legitimately close to Lebron's level of creation, and that's no insult to Zion: plenty of all-time NBA talents have been nowhere close to Lebron as a creator. I have him as a top 5 passer of all time, as do many others, and a lot of people who don't still have him top 10. Similarly, the more ambitious you are as a passer the more turnovers you get but the more high-leverage situations you create: there's a reason guys like Nash and Magic were high turnover players, and it wasn't cause they were being stupid or anything: they were just trying super ambitious passes that worse playmakers would never try.

    Still, I agree that Zion's passing and creation has room to grow from here, and it wouldn't shock me if he ended up having a handful of those 25/7/7 seasons that Lebron is so famous for by the time all is said and done.

    I also agree that we've seen defensive improvement. Game 1 this season he was flat bad, and while he's not uniformly good now (there are certainly still black marks on his defense and areas to fix) he's gone from 'awful' to just 'mostly fine' with occasional flashes of 'very good'. Hopefully that improves and by the end of his rookie deal we're talking about Zion as a legitimate plus on defense, a real 2 way player.
    Basketball.

  2. #177
    Zion should be the perenial All NBA 1st team power forward from here on in

  3. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Zion should be the perenial All NBA 1st team power forward from here on in
    So far this year I definitely think he deserves an All-NBA nod. Probably not 1st team, but one of them. Are there 3 PFs definitively more impactful than him in the NBA?

    Among PFs (who have played at least 750 minutes) he is:

    - 2nd (behind Giannis) in points per game
    - 1st in TS%
    - 2nd in PER (6th in the entire league)
    - 2nd in Win Shares (after Giannis)
    - 5th in BPM (after Giannis, AD, KD, and Julius Randle lmao)
    - 1st in ScoreVal (Actually leads the league in ScoreVal)
    - 5th in EPM (after KD, AD, Bam, and Giannis)

    Does this speak to a 3rd team All NBA berth?

    You add into that that KD and AD have both missed a ton of a games and will continue to miss more as the season goes on, which damages their hopes, as well as the fact that KD being listed as a PF is more of an artifact of team construction rather than his traditional 'position', it looks even more in his favour.

  4. #179
    How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ?
    Just another Kiwi basking in the reflected glory of Steven Adams....bask bask...

  5. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by KoMikaera View Post
    How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ?
    If we’re being honest “potentially” Zion has the greater ceiling. I’ve never seen a 20 year old with this ability to score at will without even a go to move. I can’t even imagine what he can be capable in a few years

  6. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by KoMikaera View Post
    How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ?
    Offensively, he has the potential to be better. I think he's a better bet to develop at least competent shooting, and his finishing/volume is already pretty much at the same level. Passing, Zion is around the same level Giannis (perhaps a touch worse) but he's also 6 years younger, so the fact that it's even comparable at this stage is significant.

    The defense is where Giannis currently has the huge advantage. Zion has improved to the point where he's no longer just flat awful, and is sometimes quite solid, but Giannis is a deserving DPOY: the gap between them is enormous on that end. Of course, again, Zion has a long time to go and he has been visibly improving so maybe in a year or two we'll be saying different, but right now Zion's defense is the challenge to him ever reaching the impact Giannis has.

    Which is not an insult to Zion. Giannis has had some all-time seasons recently. As in, some of the best individual seasons ever. Falling just shy of that would be disappointing, cause we all want Zion to be the greatest ever, but not surprising and certainly not some kind of real failure.

  7. #182
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    If we’re being honest “potentially” Zion has the greater ceiling. I’ve never seen a 20 year old with this ability to score at will without even a go to move. I can’t even imagine what he can be capable in a few years
    agreed

  8. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by KoMikaera View Post
    How do you guys think Zion is developing so far, and his ceiling, compared to Giannis ?
    Offensively Zion is a prodigy around the basket. I've never seen anyone with this combination of size, strength, vertical and touch around the basket. He's much further along offensively than Giannis was at this early stage of his career.

    I kind of thought Zion would be like a Charles Barkely type, but while Barkley was a more agressive rebounder, Barkley didn't have this level of offense this early in his career. I'm not sure who the comparable is to Zion.

    Defensively his ceiling is lower than Giannis, mainly because of his height and wingspan. He's always going to struggle with taller players in the post. Fortunately there aren't a lot of players with a post offense anymore. He still needs to move his feet better to stay in front of players and he's going to need to learn how to maneveur around screens better. He's always going to be reffed unfairly with the latter because of his size and strength.
    Last edited by Freyfamilyreuni; 02-25-2021 at 10:04 AM.

  9. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni View Post
    Offensively Zion is a prodigy around the basket. I've never seen anyone with this combination of size, strength, vertical and touch around the basket. He's much further along offensively than Giannis was at this early stage of his career.

    I kind of thought Zion would be like a Charles Barkely type, but while Barkley was a more agressive rebounder, Barkley didn't have this level of offense this early in his career. I'm not sure who the comparable is to Zion.

    Defensively his ceiling is lower than Giannis, mainly because of his height and wingspan. He's always going to struggle with taller players in the post. Fortunately there aren't a lot of players with a post offense anymore. He still needs to move his feet better to stay in front of players and he's going to need to learn how to maneveur around screens better. He's always going to be reffed unfairly with the latter because of his size and strength.
    I was making a comparison last night that Zion is the Steph Curry of finishing around the basket. He is a once in a lifetime type finisher to the point where I don?t think there?s anything that defenses will be able to do to stop it for as long as he has his athleticism, similar to Curry from 3. He could potentially be the best finisher of all time at some point soon.

  10. #185
    Pertinent to this thread's title....

    Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

    --Adams didn't mess up too much.
    --Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
    --By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
    --Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
    --And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.
    Last edited by As I See It; 02-25-2021 at 11:09 AM.

  11. #186
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Pertinent to this thread's title....

    Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

    --Adams didn't mess up too much.
    --Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
    --By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
    --Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
    --And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.
    What is with your hate for Zion? Would you feel better if he were not on the team?

  12. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Pertinent to this thread's title....

    Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

    --Adams didn't mess up too much.
    --Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
    --By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
    --Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
    --And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.
    Good one hot take king

    Van Gundy decided to do coachy stuff instead of eat nachos when the cameras were off.

  13. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Good one hot take king

    Van Gundy decided to do coachy stuff instead of eat nachos when the cameras were off.
    That too!!!!

  14. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Pertinent to this thread's title....

    Boy, the others on the TEAM sure did did get out of the way of The Chosen last night, to let him, by himself, win the game.

    --Adams didn't mess up too much.
    --Lonzo proved he's still worth at least two second round draft picks in a trade.
    --By the hand of The Chosen, Bledsoe was awakened from the dead late in the game
    --Despite his laziness, at least BI decided to get out of bed
    --And, omnipotent Zion (genuflect here) parted the Mississippi River, turned Water into wine at Antoine's, and cured the COVID19 infection; all while single handedly defeating Detroit.
    You gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boys soul

  15. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    What is with your hate for Zion? Would you feel better if he were not on the team?
    If I had to guess (and maybe this is giving myself too much credit, I don't know) he's not actually hating Zion, he just doesn't like me and since I like to talk about the historic things Zion is doing, he thinks a good way to mock me is to pretend that actually, Zion isn't worth this much talk.

    Childish nonsense but you know, that's who we're dealing with here.

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