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If I recall correctly, we started the fourth quarter with...Originally Posted by ramsters60
Kira,
JJ
JAX
Hart
BI
Otherwise known as.....
A pure rookie who was having a rough night
A One Dimensional 36 year old slow guy
Flash or Crash (mostly crash)
The Energizer Bunny who never saw a one on three break he didn't like.
"Mr. Please Carry the Load because if you don't, Gawd help us."
If I'm wrong, I stand corrected
I feel kind of bad for him because I do think that he can be a solid defender (Again, not an elite superstar defender, but good) but just not in the role we're using him in, and not in the role that his reputation places on him. The way some Lonzo stans talk about him, you'd think he was the second coming of Gary Payton on defense and it's just not true: he is not an on-ball stopper, he just isn't. Doesn't have the footspeed or the hip mobility or the mirroring for it. He's much better at guarding off, doubling, dipping the hand in the passing lane, playing that secondary role. That's a valuable role, sure, but it's not what we need right now.
Here's something that is true but absolutely shouldn't be: Lonzo has taken more clutch time shots than Zion so far this year. 16 to Zion's 10: explain that if you can.
Basketball.
Just need patience. Maybe Kira can be the guy, maybe he cant. Need another season to get a decent idea. Can't expect this team to challenge the Lakers/Clippers/Nuggets but we have the youth advantage, time is on our side. If I'm the GM I'm fully into building the chemistry and keeping the LA squad together if they want it, they are all good players.
Patience is key. Things may happen in the next year or two that make those future LA/Milwaukee picks looks amazing and completely shift the value. Things may also happens with Kira and NAW, even Hayes. What's important is we tend to have a chance in most games and we have two certified beasts on offense to build around. This year is not our year and I dont want to tank I want these guys to figure it out more and get improvement from Kira/NAW/Hayes.
It's frustrating watching good leads evaporate and the team get bombed from 3 every other game but I really feel like you change Bledsoe for a better fitting PG and get some length and depth on the bench and everything looks better. We could even end up with a stretch 5 who plays D in a wet dream. But it's not going to happen here and now.
When you get the ball 1st. You can make the calls and run the plays.
I guess what frustrating is that we got a really decent 6th man with his potential, but his game sadly resemble our roster. Just a hog bosh mess of different skills that doesn't come together to be complete. Everything feels about Lonzo game feels half baked.. We start him because he's really our best guard on the roster.
When he leaves and ateam forces him to come off the bench. He'll thrive and grow.
Statlines guards have dropped on us so far this year:
- Lamelo Ball: 12/10/9 in 25 minutes
- De'Aaron Fox: 43/4/13 with 4 steals on 63%FG
- Donovan Mitchell: 28/7/4 on 79.4%TS
- Donovan Mitchell: 37/7/5 on 79.9%TS
- Bradley Beal: 46/4/6 on 59%TS
- Jrue Holiday: 22/9/5 on 59%TS
- De'Aaron Fox: 38/4/12 on 70.2%TS
- Zach Lavine: 46/7/4 on 87.4%TS
- Coby White: 30/2/7 on 71.8%TS
- Luka Doncic: 46/8/12 on 67.7%TS
- Ja Morant: 28/7/8 on 78.8%TS
- Damian Lillard: 43/4/16 on 68.2%TS
- Chris Paul: 15/4/19 on 73.3%TS [only 2 TOs]
Like, it's just so blatant. This is fewer than 30 games into the year and all of this has happened. We go up against good guards and they just take our lunch money. Our guard defense is woeful. It must be the worst in the NBA, at those positions, surely?
Apparently that was a historic blown lead. So, another historic L in the just two years of Griffin's operation. This has been the 10th or 15th one? I'm not asking him to get fired, but his seat needs to start getting warm in the off season. He got one more offseason to figure out a direction or I'm officially done. Call me emotional. I don't care. History has already proved that this type of basketball operation doesn't turn around anything or make contenders. They'll get one peak 8th seed year run in 4 years and back to the basement for another 3 like Pelicans Leap year Basketball season. Griff has already wasted 2 years of Zion. This is like opposite worst spectrum from Dell Demp to Griffin. Horrible overaggressive to directionless conservative
Last edited by Taker597; 02-20-2021 at 12:29 AM.
No it was
Kira
JJ
JAX
Hart
Zion
If possible, watch the Suns 1st possession of the 4th. It was a sign of things to come.
They trap CP3 and get the ball out of his hands. Everybody rotates and recovers. But somehow and for some reason...Zion plays a 1 man zone defense and completely loses Cam Johnson who darted to the other side of the court.
After all that good defense, Cam Johnson gets wide open 3 pointer, which he thankfully misses. But this is the issue. Zion thinks his man is in the corner because he's ball watching. Yet his man has vacated the area and is on the OTHER SIDE OF THE COURT. I mean the man is a good 20 ft away.
Wtf are these people practicing?
I disagree that it's wasted: we're in a good position in terms of assets for the future, a few core pieces, etc. The prep work has been done.
The litmus test for Griff is really the next 18 months: that is, this trade deadline, this offseason, and through until next trade deadline.
By that point this team should have a real look-of-the-future to it: it should be starting to resemble what it will look like over the half-decade. There's a lot that needs to be done: we've acquired the pieces, it's time to start looking at putting them together.
- Trade Bledsoe
- Trade Redick
- Trade Ball
- Draft well this year
- Try to add another talent piece for the future.
If, in 18 months, we've got rid of Bledsoe and Ball and replaced them with, say, Duncan Robinson and Thad Young + 2nd rounder, and we've drafted Evan Mobley, then I think we'll be grinning. If, on the other hand, Griff fails to move any of those three guys for value, keeps Bledsoe on into next year, loses both Ball and Redick to free-agency with no return and then makes a mediocre-to-poor draft pick, then I'll be very unhappy.
Yea but your panic about it is not the answer. Ball is not the problem. Getting length on our bench and a one dimensional scorer would help a lot and not cost the moon.
I'm going to flip flop a lot on Kira I just know it, so apologies in advance. But I've been pretty solid on keeping Ball and I'm sure Hart won't get a stupid offer. So... I've got Lonzo/Hart/Kira kinda locked in. I guess that means we need an instant offense guard who is above league average on 3's and also can finish at the rim.
Then stop playing Hart at the 3 and if Kira just has a 10min role then so be it. Get the guard rotation sorted like I'm sure Kira could start and take a seat early with Zion and you kinda keep those two on similar rotations. And your first guard off the bench is a bomber who finishes at the rim. That would be ideal.
Then you focus your assets like Bledsoe, JJ, picks, on length from the bench and maybe use then to turn Adams into a Myles Turner type.
Last edited by Impose; 02-20-2021 at 12:48 AM.
Well that's one if the problem with this season they don't get a lot of practice time.
Ball is not the problem but he's a problem.
I know you're insistent on keeping Ball. So insistent that, in a post where I didn't even mention Ball (Bledsoe and Redick are as much to blame for our dreadful guard D as Ball is) you specifically brought him up.
Here is the other issue. On one of those PnR with Chris Paul. He really didnt do anything.
It was defended well, but for some strange and odd reason, Josh Hart has a foot in the middle of the paint when the man he's guarding, Jae Crowder, is at the 3 pt line.
All CP3 does is shovel the ball to Crowder who then drains an open 3 because Josh Hart has a foot in the paint. Why? Cp3 was guarded and no longer a threat. He has no chance at that point. Wide open gym practice for Crowder.
This has been going on all year. Thats on Stan.
Last edited by luckyman; 02-20-2021 at 12:59 AM.
Ball with no place because he can't finish at the rim, can't hit 3s and can't shoot free throws is a problem. Ball who can shoot 37% from 3 and 75% free throws is kinda like Danny Green with point guard skills and that is not a problem.
Just watched that awful 4th again. BI had exactly ONE iso possession that entire quarter where he only played 6 minutes. Took only 3 shots in the 4th.
On defense, Pelicans never changed the coverage to drop the big. So Chris Paul blew by both PnR defenders. Defense no chance. They didnt miss any open 3s. Game over.
First of all, Lonzo is not prime Danny Green on defense. Just to be clear on that.
Secondly, while Danny Green is good, he is also not (and never has been) worth $20m a year, which is the likely cost of Lonzo. Remember, whether or not you keep a player doesn't exist in a vacuum, it always has an associated price, and in this case that's probably about what the asking price is.
Thirdly, Lonzo doesn't really have key point guard skills, which is why basically everyone has come to the conclusion that his best role is off ball, as a wing type. This is because while he's a good passer, he has neither the handle nor the half-court passing chops to actually be a point guard, nor does he disrupt the defense with the threat of a drive.
I also, just for the record, have very little belief in the FT shooting. The volume is incredibly low, and it's such a departure from his career thus far; I need to see significantly more volume on that before I buy that he's just randomly 20% better than he ever has been before. Could be real (BI saw a similar leap last year) but it's hard to know when the player in question is shooting 1 per game.
Contributor
Lonzo’a improved percentages are good. But if he’s not drawing fouls just getting fouled, it doesn’t help very much. He gets in the paint and is praying someone is dropping down into the corner.
This has been the thing I have stressed for years around this board. Temporary losing is fine if the purpose is to play guy who clearly aren't ready to play winning ball. However losing is unacceptable if we are playing vets. People say that you need vets to teach the younger guys, but IMO those guys don't need significant mins if mins at all.
The young guys who eventually become great dont just play with a bunch of young dudes for their first few years and they all lose and become great together. Take out the OKC anamoly.
Look at a guy like Donovan Mitchell now -- they kept surrounding him with older guys who this board would have said 'doesnt fit the timeline' and now Mitchell is learning to win and become a leader. Duncan won early with vets, Kobe with Shaq and vets. Most of the young greats who dont win early continue to not win and eventually move on to another place.
I dont hate Griff's strategy - especially with so many picks in the cupboard -- he just goes after the wrong guys and wrong positions. He gave up a similar package for Adams as OKC gave up for CP3. Either do it all the way and really try to win and show our young dudes how to do that. Or go full rebuild. But he always plays the middle and ends up with neither instead of both
@mcnamara247
David Griffindecisive
I just want to know the thought behind putting JJ in and watching a double digit lead evaporate every time he touches the court. If they are losing when he enters the game, you might as well put the L on the record. I can’t recall a Pel that has been more worthless to the growth of the team. He can’t do anything on either side of the ball besides set Zion a screen. It’s mind boggling and sad at the same time. A 16 year vet doesn’t realize how terrible he is to the growth of his own team.
I’m not sure Griff can recover without fans losing it on him. His timeline is awful and he just expects us to watch JJ get NAWs minutes and still lose. Then preach patience. How much patience do we need to have with JJ. He is still growing I guess.
I feel like you're putting an inordinate amount of weight on what an almost washed 37 year old JJ is doing
All it does it give more credence to the fact he should have been moved for a 1st when Griffindecisive had the chance
But Dave gonna Dave
Last edited by AusPel; 02-20-2021 at 09:28 AM.
Fizzles out in playoffs. That whole Jazz team. Likely happens again.
We haven’t moved anyone because the players we want either aren’t available or cost too much. As we get closer to the deadline teams will start having a better understanding of where they are and what they need. So I understand the patience right now.
As for the game, we had a bad 4th quarter. We need to chill. They were very exciting to watch for 3 quarters, We’ll get better. Stan is trying from what I see, the practices everyday, extra film sessions with Zion and BI, and always seems to be engaged during the game. Trying matters to me and he seems to be trying. Let’s at least give him the year before we start with he sucks.
Yeah....97 percent of teams "fail" every year. So, yes it is likely. But you give yourself a shot every year and maybe you finally break through like the Mavs or Raptors and win one if things break right.
As opposed to this theoretical idea of just keep gathering all these young guys who dont understand the game or how to win but have talent and then magically they will put it all together and be great together for the next 10 years. That rarely happens and only seems to work if they also happen to have perfectly matching skill sets and/or a couple of them are the rare millenials willing to sacrifice for the greater good - like what happened in Golden State and will likely never happen again. What is FAR more likely to happen is that the young guys, even if you draft the perfect ones, will want to see if they can do more, not want to sacrifice forever and break away from each other for what they perceive as greener pastures. And then they wont win there and look to team up with stars to try to win. And round and round and round it goes.
But this dream of getting all these 20-23 year olds who are ultra talented and grow together and sacrifice for the greater good......thats all it is; a message board dream that has no place in reality
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