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Thread: February 14th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Detroit Pistons - 11-14

  1. #176
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    The only lineup change that makes sense to me would be replacing Bledsoe in the starting lineup with NAW. NAW has shown more interest in defending and Bledsoe seems completely disinterested at all. However, that may not sit well with a veteran like Bledsoe and it may tank any value he may have in a trade. The sooner they unload Bledsoe, the better IMO.

  2. #177
    All-Star AD-AT's Avatar
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    Request for those of you who enjoy the deeper dive analysis:

    Can someone breakdown, during this losing streak and beyond, just how much we are being beaten by the 3 ball?

    In other words, it seems like we are losing games solely because we are just getting rained on from the 3 pt line at historic levels right now. Obviously that's not just people catching fire. We are also guarding the 3 horribly. But, I am just curious if teams were to shoot at their average 3 pt % or even the league average against us would we be losing these games? If they were forced to settle for more 2s and drives would we be losing these games?

    I guess what I'm asking is are we good team who just can't seem to figure out 3 pt defense? Or are we just a bad team overall?

  3. #178
    The Franchise
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    I think it a a confidence issue. Because we aren’t a very good team. The other team comes in confident they can beat us and that helps them players. Bledsoe is the prime example. When we play a normally bad team he does well but when we play a good team he disappears (until recently, he has totally disappeared).

  4. #179
    While we're on the subject of the Pistons, do you know who I'd like Zion to do some work with in the offseason? Ben Wallace.

    Ben is 46 now and has been out of the league for a while, but people still work with Hakeem to learn post-offense so why not? I'm not too worried about Zion's offense: it's otherworldly good already and I have no real doubt that it's going to continue to improve as he gains experience as a ball-handler and passer, and continues working on his shooting, something we've seen him be willing to do.

    The real area for contention for him is defensive. He's clearly improved from the very start of the season, and the general trajectory looks promising, but I'd love for him to get some work in with someone who was legitimately monstrous on that end.

    Ben Wallace was listed as 6'9 but he's admitted that he was really more like 6'7, a height very much in line with Zion's, and yet Wallace was one of the most terrifying defenders of all time. Through the heart of his prime (Age 23 to age 32) he averaged 11.7 rebounds and 2.5 blocks a game while only 6'7 in the early 2000s, where the league was much larger than it is today in a lot of ways. He posted a DRtg under 100 ten consecutive seasons and averaged a 2.3%STL and 5.0%BLK for his entire career.

    He led the league in Defensive Win Shares 4 years in a row from 2001-02 until 2004-5, and led the league in defensive BPM during two of those years as well. He's one of only 4 players in NBA history to retire with more blocks than fouls, and out of those 4, he's the only one to also retire with more steals than turnovers.

    If you search for players in the 3pt Era to record seasons where they played at least 2200 minutes (25mpg) and recorded a STL% of at least 2, a BLK% of at least 5%, and a DBPM of at least +2.0, you get these seasons:

    - Andrei Kirilenko 2003-04
    - Ben Wallace 2001-02
    - Ben Wallace 2002-03
    - Ben Wallace 2003-04
    - Andrei Kirilenko 2003-04
    - Andrei Kirilenko 2005-06
    - Josh Smith 2007-08 (rare cameo here from Josh Smith)

    If anyone can teach Zion some tips about playing defense as an undersized yet completely physically jacked wrecking ball, it's Wallace.
    Basketball.

  5. #180

    Pelicans

    Quote Originally Posted by tdcreator View Post
    I think it a a confidence issue. Because we aren?t a very good team. The other team comes in confident they can beat us and that helps them players. Bledsoe is the prime example. When we play a normally bad team he does well but when we play a good team he disappears (until recently, he has totally disappeared).
    I've coached for 15 years and I've seen this from players that don't like a system. They half do their jobs..they are not mature enough. I see this from some of the guys. The team needs to identify those players and get them out of here.

  6. #181
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterlr View Post
    I've coached for 15 years and I've seen this from players that don't like a system. They half do their jobs..they are not mature enough. I see this from some of the guys. The team needs to identify those players and get them out of here.
    Or should we get a coach with a system that fits the players?

  7. #182
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    While we're on the subject of the Pistons, do you know who I'd like Zion to do some work with in the offseason? Ben Wallace.

    Ben is 46 now and has been out of the league for a while, but people still work with Hakeem to learn post-offense so why not? I'm not too worried about Zion's offense: it's otherworldly good already and I have no real doubt that it's going to continue to improve as he gains experience as a ball-handler and passer, and continues working on his shooting, something we've seen him be willing to do.

    The real area for contention for him is defensive. He's clearly improved from the very start of the season, and the general trajectory looks promising, but I'd love for him to get some work in with someone who was legitimately monstrous on that end.

    Ben Wallace was listed as 6'9 but he's admitted that he was really more like 6'7, a height very much in line with Zion's, and yet Wallace was one of the most terrifying defenders of all time. Through the heart of his prime (Age 23 to age 32) he averaged 11.7 rebounds and 2.5 blocks a game while only 6'7 in the early 2000s, where the league was much larger than it is today in a lot of ways. He posted a DRtg under 100 ten consecutive seasons and averaged a 2.3%STL and 5.0%BLK for his entire career.

    He led the league in Defensive Win Shares 4 years in a row from 2001-02 until 2004-5, and led the league in defensive BPM during two of those years as well. He's one of only 4 players in NBA history to retire with more blocks than fouls, and out of those 4, he's the only one to also retire with more steals than turnovers.

    If you search for players in the 3pt Era to record seasons where they played at least 2200 minutes (25mpg) and recorded a STL% of at least 2, a BLK% of at least 5%, and a DBPM of at least +2.0, you get these seasons:

    - Andrei Kirilenko 2003-04
    - Ben Wallace 2001-02
    - Ben Wallace 2002-03
    - Ben Wallace 2003-04
    - Andrei Kirilenko 2003-04
    - Andrei Kirilenko 2005-06
    - Josh Smith 2007-08 (rare cameo here from Josh Smith)

    If anyone can teach Zion some tips about playing defense as an undersized yet completely physically jacked wrecking ball, it's Wallace.
    Wallace was pretty one dimensional though. He expended much of his energy and effort on defense. He was not an offensive threat at all. It would be tough to expect Zion to be able to play at the level of intensity on defense that Wallace did and do so on the offensive end as well. Also, Wallace played in an era when you did not get called for fouls and flagrant fouls for breathing on a guy too hard.

  8. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Wallace was pretty one dimensional though. He expended much of his energy and effort on defense. He was not an offensive threat at all. It would be tough to expect Zion to be able to play at the level of intensity on defense that Wallace did and do so on the offensive end as well. Also, Wallace played in an era when you did not get called for fouls and flagrant fouls for breathing on a guy too hard.
    Oh I know that Wallace was a non-threat offensively, that's why I mentioned that I don't worry too much about Zion's offense: he's already about 50x the offensive threat Wallace ever was. And I'm not expecting Zion to suddenly become Ben Wallace and play at 100% intensity on defense at the expense of offense.

    But I do think it would be useful to learn some aspects of playing that defensive role from a guy with a similar sort of body in terms of height and muscle mass, especially someone else who spent a lot of time defending physically larger guys; guys of a size that Zion will be spending at least some time guarding.

    It's kind of like how Lebron spent time learning from Hakeem. Of course, it didn't turn Lebron into a post-dominant guy who never played from the perimeter, but just adding some insights and tools to the bag helped diversify his offense.

  9. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by sterlr View Post
    I've coached for 15 years and I've seen this from players that don't like a system. They half do their jobs..they are not mature enough. I see this from some of the guys. The team needs to identify those players and get them out of here.
    There was a comment made by Stephen Adams in Redick's podcast that pointed to this as a problem. He was talking about how the Thunder worked during the Russ/KD era and he said a big part was everyone accepted the scheme and did their job even if they didn't agree with it. He then said it wasn't one of these situations where guys say "yeah, ok" then go out during a game and don't stick to the scheme. Adams has only played for 2 NBA teams: Thunder and Pels.

  10. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    There was a comment made by Stephen Adams in Redick's podcast that pointed to this as a problem. He was talking about how the Thunder worked during the Russ/KD era and he said a big part was everyone accepted the scheme and did their job even if they didn't agree with it. He then said it wasn't one of these situations where guys say "yeah, ok" then go out during a game and don't stick to the scheme. Adams has only played for 2 NBA teams: Thunder and Pels.
    That was a great podcast. I want to go back and listen to the Ingram episode.
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

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