Some people gotta rewatch Chris Paul.Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
 |
| . |
|
Some people gotta rewatch Chris Paul.
I just cannot for the life of me understand how people are still so invested in Lonzo.
I could get it if it was like, a sort of nonchalant ''yeah keep him if it's a budget deal'' thing, but there are still so many people - on Twitter and a few on here - who are somehow still passionately in favour of giving him a multi-year deal on significant money.
What has he shown to earn that? Very very little. There are still people who talk about him like he's this PG savant and a lockdown defender, when neither of those things are close to true.
Basketball.
I’m not sure what this team is building (and I have little confidence the front office does either), but Lonzo is a talent that will get paid, and for good reason. If we don’t pay him that’s fine, I just hope we find a way to get something for him. I see him as a positive on this team as he gains confidence with the talent around him. He has already come a long way from when he first got here, and he is still young enough to continue to develop with the staff on hand.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Lonzo has clearly checked out because he doesn't want to play for that bum head coach but whatever people going to see what they want to see. And the era of losing good players due to scapegoating them for SVG has begun. We'll lose BI and Zion next then Jaxson. All for a bum coach and GM. This sucks. I hate this.
You are so right...what ever you want to see, you will see.
There is no appetite for reality in some folks' worlds.
I think this is much more insulting to Lonzo than just thinking he's a more limited player than his Stans believe.
The situation you describe here is a situation in which a career losing player, racked with injury concerns, can't even be bothered to play hard for the final 15 or so games of the year in a contract year because he's in a bad mood with the coach.
That's arrogant, unprofessional, egotistical, and insulting to his teammates, some of whom - whatever the end result is on the court - are clearly playing hard.
If that's who you think he is then I don't want him on the team for any price.
Luckily, I don't think this is true. Lonzo seems to be a decent guy who plays hard much of the time and works on his game and gets along with his teammates. He's just very flawed as a player: that's much more forgivable than the situation you outline.
Lonzo is just a bad investment. Let the Knicks pay him. He is a classic shoulda woulda coulda been Knicks player. Same as his dad’s mouth, overrated and overhyped.
.
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 04-18-2021 at 05:57 PM.
The lock down defender narrative is by far way more egregious that PG savant. He constantly gets cooked, fouls, and never gets set to jam a ballhandler.
Exactly. To be fair I don’t buy that he’s given up. Lonzo is just mentally weak at this point in time. I like the guy, and boy I’d love him to be the player he can be, but that light is not clicking. He is a bonafide risk at this point in time.
The biggest two things standing in the way of him and being a legit lockdown defender, in my mind:
1) Footwork; it's bad. Constantly gets himself off balance when defenders on the perimeter, causes slow recoveries. Sometimes he sees a play far enough in advance to recover from the bad footwork and make a play on the ball anyway because he does have very good anticipation, but he's almost always fighting his poor feet.
2) Flat out cannot navigate a screen. Just can't do it. You can't be an on-ball guard stopper when you can't deal with a screen at all. When you die on them as often as Lonzo does, you are forced off-ball because putting you in a PnR as a defender basically concedes the defense the screen and forces the big into trying to defend both guys every single time and it's not fair on the big at all.
Lonzo has good hands and good anticipation and reads passing lanes well, so off-ball he can be pretty good, but on ball it's just not a reality for him right now.
He's literally being taken off of the ball for frigging Eric Bledsoe. Call it what you want, but that's downright horrible. I don't blame Lonzo for not going all out for a coach that has consistently disrespected him with his decisions all year long. It's not just Lonzo, the entire team has completely checked out on SVG. Lonzo has shown hes a very good player. The rest of the league knows. Go all out for the last 15 games for what? This team ain't going nowhere at all with SVG and Griffin
Let the rest of the league pay him then. Don't want that level of disrespect on the team.
Like I said, you can criticise the end results for a lot of players, but there's no denying that Ingram tries hard and puts effort in. There's no denying that Kira or Jax or Naji or Zion are trying hard. Whatever mistakes they make, they're trying.
If Lonzo Ball thinks he's too good to try, and he's beyond those guys, he can pack his bags and get on the next plane to Chicago for all I care.
Luckily, I don't think that's the case: he's just not that good. He should be taken off the ball in the halfcourt by almost anyone because he is not even remotely capable of running half-court offense. Flat out.
One day you will learn that it is a player's league. Like I said, Lonzo isn't the only player that has checked out. He's the one thats being disrespected and you think he should just go all out just because. These players ain't going for that crap anymore.
Lonzo has shown he's a good player. He developed a midrange jumper, a bank shot, improved his handle. Just to come into the season and be used as if he's some role player when he is currently the 3rd best player on the team. He went all out all season. I don't blame him one bit for checking out. You're comparing him to rookies and 2nd year players. Naji literally just got off the bench 2 weeks ago, of course he's going to go all out. If we lose Lonzo just know that it won't be a good look, whether you like him or not.
Lonzo is having the best year of his career precisely because he is being limited in his use.
You ask Lonzo to be a 'real' halfcourt point guard and you get failure. Because he is terrible at doing that thing. He's producing the best, most efficient play of his career being used as a roleplayer because - to the surprise of nobody who has actually watched the games - he is a roleplayer. He's not some star: maybe one day he'll figure out all of his problems and turn into one, but right now he isn't. Just flat out isn't.
''He went out all season'' if him starting the year with 6 weeks of 40/32/58 is going ''all out'' then that's even more of an insult.
I'm comparing him to rookies and second year players because his production is on that level right now. If you have a problem with that, why not hit him up and tell him to stop playing like garbage?
I don't care what is a ''good look'' for social media, I care about having a fun and successful basketball team. If Lonzo's ego is in the way of that he can take a hike.
I want players that want to be here. It’s why I love Hart. I still don’t want to over pay to keep hart but I love his style of play. If Lonzo gave what Hart does I’d be happy to keep him and pay him.
Let. Him. Walk.
If they have to start next season with a Kira/NAW back court, I have much more confidence in that than Lonzo/Bledsoe, Lonzo/NAW.
If they want to tank these final games to try and land Moody, I'm fine with that too.
There just needs to be massive change in this back court situation.
Amen.
Whatever your take on Lonzo, whatever your take on Bledsoe, it's inarguable at this point that starting those two is not viable. Some change has to be made to our guard play, that's just not something that can be disputed, and it hasn't been disputable for a long time.
Ok, I’m officially on the let Lonzo walk bandwagon. Especially if he and his agent are demanding $18-20M a year.
You cant "demand" a contract. Especially as a RFA. You get what someone is willing to pay you. And I have never believed that there is a team out there that will offer 20
@mcnamara247
I hope you are right.
Since we are trying to change the mood and play nice; I'll play along.
Respectfully, I know I am in the minority (Heck, I might be the only one), but, I can't, for the life of me, see what everybody else seems to see in Kira. I'll admit that he's "lightening fast" from base line to base line, but it's what he does in between the two end-lines that I find lacking. It takes more than jackrabbit-speed and quick hands to play basketball in the NBA.
He's a 20 year old, 6'3'', string-bean who is at least two or three seasons away from a a 34 minute a night starter in this league. How can Pelican Fans who are worried about losing Zion's loyalty to this team, and rightfully so, possibly entrust the keys to the team in Kira's hands, as early as next year? It's baffling!!!
And just so you don't get the wrong idea, I have no interest in retaining Lonzo. This team needs to identify a competent veteran point guard in free agency, or a trade, to lead this team and teach these young 'uns how to compete in the NBA.
For the team's sake...
For Zion's sake...
And most importantly, for Kira Lewis, Jr's sake...
....DON'T RUSH HIM!!!
Last edited by As I See It; 04-18-2021 at 08:38 PM.
Kira wont be the starter next year and the team doesnt want him to be.
The answer, to me, if Zion is going to be more of a lead playmaker is a NAW/Ingram backcourt. Now, you need a multipositional defending forward who can knock down the 3 and you got a solid lineup. Getting that guy, of course, is the hard part. But that is the path.
I always did want to see BI moved to the 2, but NAW at the 1? YIKES!!
I believe that there are times in a game when a competent point (apologies to Zion) is a necessity.
Perhaps your expectations are completely out of whack for a lead guard that entered the league at 19. What I see is a very young guard that has shown flashes of controlling a half court offense. He's made the lobs, the PnR pockets, the left handed corner whips. He obviously can draw extra defenders on a drive. He's scored on all 3 levels without looking awkward.
He's shooting 35% in limited minutes from 3 his rookie year and looks comfortable shooting. Chris Paul shot 28% his rookie year and did not look comfortable shooting.
Defensively he's got work to do off-ball and how to handle screens according to the scouting report. However, when in position, his def fg% is now 45.3% (slightly up from the 44% it was a week ago). That's not horrible by any means. Better than Bledsoe's 48%.
So while I never said they should go into next season with Kira as the starter, I wouldn't be nervous about it either. IMO he is nowhere near as behind as you make him out to be. At all.
But so far, this team has whiffed on every vet guard they've brought in.
I am totally on the Moody bandwagon. He’s the perfect 3&D this team currently needs.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote