December 27th - New Orleans Pelicans vs San Antonio Spurs - 1-1

[Taker597]

Yeah I'm not exactly sure what was going on with Favors' back last year but, while he was still solid defensively, the movement was a real issue and the offensive sharpness was a nothing. Combine that with missing huge spans of time due to injury and also personal issues (which are completely understandable and which I do not blame him for) it meant his impact on the team was way smaller than I had hoped it was going to be.

Adams, fingers crossed, seems to be in good shape, reasonably healthy, and ready to go. Which is fantastic, and his impact has been clear already.

Favors unfairly had a lot of hyped attached to him is what hurts him the most, but he hasn't look great offensively with the Jazz so far either.

He was a great bench player with too much expectations to be a starter with ugly young core to work with and a very bad coach.

[Biasvasospasm]

The last couple minutes of this one were rough, but three really nice things about BI this year so far:
1. The passing and playmaking has been exceptional at times. He has taken his passing to another level in terms of looking off defenders and manipulating them with his eyes. He has always done this to a degree, but some of these passes (the dump off to Adams, several of the open kick-outs he has made in the first two games including the last pass to Redick against Toronto) have been really great for his age and position.
2. The off-the-dribble 3 point shooting looks like it is going to be a thing. He has hit at least one 3 off-the-dribble in each of our games so far. Once defenses start having to play him for that shot, his ability to get into the lane and finish, draw fouls, and kill in the midrange will be even more dangerous. Maybe next he adds some deep 3s?
3. Defense and rebounding have been noticeably better.

[Taker597]

If Adams' contract is an overpay, Asik's contract was Grand Larceny.

Never understood the Adams take... I think it was out of boredom.

You don't even have to use analytics. Just watch him play... His synergy and positive play is really good.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Nobody said Adams couldn't play. Literally nobody. The "take" was that giving up Hill (who also played great the other night), a first, two seconds and the ability to use the MLE and BAE was a ton for a center. So far, Adams had been great. But the bench has also been a major issue. Something that could have been much better had you gone with say Baynes and still had Hill and two other solid FA signings

When disagreeing with someone, at least understand their argument. And hopefully Adams continues to perform this well, but nobody said he was bad. In fact, same trade but its Bledsoe instead of Hill and I would have given it a great grade because then we could've also used MLE for bench

[Nichols]

Favors unfairly had a lot of hyped attached to him is what hurts him the most, but he hasn't look great offensively with the Jazz so far either.

He was a great bench player with too much expectations to be a starter with ugly young core to work with and a very bad coach.

That's fair..

[As I See It]

The last couple minutes of this one were rough, but three really nice things about BI this year so far:
1. The passing and playmaking has been exceptional at times. He has taken his passing to another level in terms of looking off defenders and manipulating them with his eyes. He has always done this to a degree, but some of these passes (the dump off to Adams, several of the open kick-outs he has made in the first two games including the last pass to Redick against Toronto) have been really great for his age and position.
2. The off-the-dribble 3 point shooting looks like it is going to be a thing. He has hit at least one 3 off-the-dribble in each of our games so far. Once defenses start having to play him for that shot, his ability to get into the lane and finish, draw fouls, and kill in the midrange will be even more dangerous. Maybe next he adds some deep 3s?
3. Defense and rebounding have been noticeably better.

At some point, if BI can guard the 2, I would love to see him playing in the backcourt. If he could play in the same backcourt with Lonzo (assuming his improvement isn't a mirage), their combined length and reach would be a juggernaut defensively. Too, very few opposing 2's would be able to handle BI down low.

Could you imagine BI posting up Damian Lillard or CJ McCollum on the blocks?

[smcgull]

I like that everyone tries their best.

[13 - 3]

We won.

[Taker597]

Nobody said Adams couldn't play. Literally nobody. The "take" was that giving up Hill (who also played great the other night), a first, two seconds and the ability to use the MLE and BAE was a ton for a center. So far, Adams had been great. But the bench has also been a major issue. Something that could have been much better had you gone with say Baynes and still had Hill and two other solid FA signings

When disagreeing with someone, at least understand their argument. And hopefully Adams continues to perform this well, but nobody said he was bad. In fact, same trade but its Bledsoe instead of Hill and I would have given it a great grade because then we could've also used MLE for bench

I didn't say that people imply that he couldn't. I didn't getting anything twisted. This all goes back to "value" and I'm getting tired of talking about it. Nobody wanted Bledsoe.in some stupid universe we could of slipped in Bledsoe in for Hill.. Yeah, give bull******** good grade stamp like that really matters. Grading on hypothetical is just a bull******** discussion. This is arguing over semantics and theorictial garbage that has no actually value. This is why I found the discussion to be very forced and unimaginative. Griffin saw a fit and he wanted to fill it. It's easy as that.

I'm pretty cool with you, but the whole "value" discussion on Adams trade is comparable to DBZ filler episodes. We can't sit on hands for the perfect deal every time like Danny only willing to make deals to rip teams off. We are backloaded with assets. Moving a 34 year old PG just isn't going to hurt the big picture.

We got a player we coveted. We extended said player multiple years at a fair value(Which is probably why they where willing to overspend). He perform up to par. Everyone is happy.

Like c'mon man... It's silly to draw a line in the sand for a 34 year old player that won't be here in two years.

[Taker597]

[Taker597]

[AusPel]

We won.

Winning cures everything, right?

[Dago75]

Couple observations
1) I truly think some in here are being way too judgemental. 40% of the starters are new to the team and Zion didn't play much last year. Add to that a new coach and new scheme (not to mention shortened camp and only 2 preseason games)
2) there is an intensity and desire in the team this year that wasn't present last year. They still have a lot of work to do on defense, but the players have bought in. Under Gentry, any game where the offense was this bad was an automatic loss.
3) some questioned if a disciplinarian like SVG would work with this young generation of players. The 8nterview on this page shows why he can be a stickler to detail and have the team buy in. SVG blamed himself for the late turnovers by BI. The player will accept him being strict on them because he is just as hard on himself, if not harder. That's leadership...something that wasn't there under Gentry.

[Creative]

Win is a win but that one was pretty ugly XD let's learn from it and move on!

[luckyman]

The last couple minutes of this one were rough, but three really nice things about BI this year so far:
2. The off-the-dribble 3 point shooting looks like it is going to be a thing. He has hit at least one 3 off-the-dribble in each of our games so far. Once defenses start having to play him for that shot, his ability to get into the lane and finish, draw fouls, and kill in the midrange will be even more dangerous. Maybe next he adds some deep 3s?

On this point, he's already being played tightly whether he takes that shot or not. Just being a very good 3 point shooter (doesn't matter how) and an above averagel 3-level scorer means teams will play him aggressively and bring doubles and traps. He does not need to go further and add a deep 3 to achieve this because most teams simply don't care if you want to take a 30 ft+ shot. Most of the ones Lillard takes are what would be categorized as "very open" for stats.

[Pelicanidae]

Couple observations
1) I truly think some in here are being way too judgemental. 40% of the starters are new to the team and Zion didn't play much last year. Add to that a new coach and new scheme (not to mention shortened camp and only 2 preseason games)
2) there is an intensity and desire in the team this year that wasn't present last year. They still have a lot of work to do on defense, but the players have bought in. Under Gentry, any game where the offense was this bad was an automatic loss.
3) some questioned if a disciplinarian like SVG would work with this young generation of players. The 8nterview on this page shows why he can be a stickler to detail and have the team buy in. SVG blamed himself for the late turnovers by BI. The player will accept him being strict on them because he is just as hard on himself, if not harder. That's leadership...something that wasn't there under Gentry.

I think there has to be a separation between the results and the process, when it comes to judgment. Frankly, I don't care if we win 30 games this year or 45. Obviously 45 would be nice, but it's not really my priority: the results can be bad even if the process is good. What I want to see is the team setting up for the future; I'd much rather have a losing season this year in exchange for 5 straight winning seasons later, than rush-job the re-build for a 50 win season this year and then follow it up with another 5 losing seasons. So I'm judging each game by the processes I see on court, the strategies, the roles that are being established, the growth players are undergoing: whether that results in a win or not is kind of secondary.

I agree with the SVG comment.

[Pelicanidae]

The last couple minutes of this one were rough, but three really nice things about BI this year so far:
1. The passing and playmaking has been exceptional at times. He has taken his passing to another level in terms of looking off defenders and manipulating them with his eyes. He has always done this to a degree, but some of these passes (the dump off to Adams, several of the open kick-outs he has made in the first two games including the last pass to Redick against Toronto) have been really great for his age and position.
2. The off-the-dribble 3 point shooting looks like it is going to be a thing. He has hit at least one 3 off-the-dribble in each of our games so far. Once defenses start having to play him for that shot, his ability to get into the lane and finish, draw fouls, and kill in the midrange will be even more dangerous. Maybe next he adds some deep 3s?
3. Defense and rebounding have been noticeably better.

I agree, generally! There have been times where the playmaking has fallen off a cliff briefly (see: the three consecutive blunder plays he made this game) but overall it's been sharp and I like to see the riskier passes he's taking. Some of those will be turnovers, but that's what happens when you attempt high leverage plays.

I'm with-holding judgment on the off-dribble shooting for now, because it's the kind of thing I want a 15, 20 game sample size before I start drawing any conclusions, but I agree that if he can add it that would be huge for his offensive value.

[akhan786]

I am just happy to see him posting some defensive stats the last few, 5 steals and a block is nice. He was totally absent on that end last year. Both he and BI look significantly better in this infrastructure. Neither great (BI still can't get through screens, Zion is still constantly late closing out), but I daresay mostly competent and I think the effort has been much better.

If you listen to BI’s podcast with Redick, I think you?ll get why BI and Zion love SVG whereas I think most young players (like a Kuzma) would hate playing for him.

BI at 4:00 mark says that he actually appreciates getting coached and that it keeps him sharp. I can tell that BI is an influence on Zion too cause I’ve noticed Zion saying words like “job”, “work”, etc. They want the structure.

We really lucked out fellas. Getting 2 young stars that are obsessed with the work. They both still have a lot of improvement needed, but I’m of the belief that if we support them that they will find a way to claw their way to their potential.

https://youtu.be/8NaUOHrymMY

[13 - 3]

The pot smoking seems to be working well for us. Great win.

[Taker597]

If you listen to BI’s podcast with Redick, I think you?ll get why BI and Zion love SVG whereas I think most young players (like a Kuzma) would hate playing for him.

BI at 4:00 mark says that he actually appreciates getting coached and that it keeps him sharp. I can tell that BI is an influence on Zion too cause I’ve noticed Zion saying words like “job”, “work”, etc. They want the structure.

We really lucked out fellas. Getting 2 young stars that are obsessed with the work. They both still have a lot of improvement needed, but I’m of the belief that if we support them that they will find a way to claw their way to their potential.

https://youtu.be/8NaUOHrymMY

Having my reservation with SVG for astronomical failure in Detroit, but he seems to be the perfect blue collar coach to really get the most out of this group. I never really viewed SVG as a development guy, but more Xs and Os. He did say that he had to approached coaching this team from a new perspective.

[As I See It]

Win is a win but that one was pretty ugly XD let's learn from it and move on!

Take heed...an 'ugly' win is always better than an 'beautiful' loss!!

[Eman5805]

2/12 on wide open shots? And we won? Huh. That’s noteworthy.

[johnpagenola]

Has anyone mentioned the Pelican turnovers?

Raptors game: 24 turnovers
Heat game: 19 turnovers
Spurs game: 8 turnovers

That improvement is also something noteworthy.

[As I See It]

Has anyone mentioned the Pelican turnovers?

Raptors game: 24 turnovers
Heat game: 19 turnovers
Spurs game: 8 turnovers

That improvement is also something noteworthy.

It's the reason we won the game.

[luckyman]

Having my reservation with SVG for astronomical failure in Detroit, but he seems to be the perfect blue collar coach to really get the most out of this group. I never really viewed SVG as a development guy, but more Xs and Os. He did say that he had to approached coaching this team from a new perspective.

One of the main gripes Detroit fans had with him was his refusal to develop young talent.

But that whole stint seemed to be doomed for failure so I'll leave that where it is.