We're all getting frustrated at taking Hayes @ 8 but....

[pelafanatic]

Yeah I don't really agree with that at all

I guess I shouldn't have stated it so generally. He has by far the lowest functional IQ in the starting lineup right now.

[Tinman]

I guess I shouldn't have stated it so generally. He has by far the lowest functional IQ in the starting lineup right now.

Maybe its not ZION with the lowest functioning IQ !

[pelafanatic]

Maybe its not ZION with the lowest functioning IQ !

Lmao yea I absolutely misspoke

[PELICANSFAN]

Zion's IQ is still basically zero. He's just an otherwordly talent so he doesn't necessarily look as lost offensively, but he is. He's just as lost defensively as Hayes is. The only way for these guys to learn is by giving them minutes. If Stan Van Gundy didn't think Jax was up for the challenge, he wouldn't have given him 17 minutes last night. I can promise you that.

SVG is making far too much money and has far too many years left on his deal to succumb from pressure from management to play Jax. He is playing him because he's earned the minutes in practice and throughout his work in the offseason. I know this because I was told there was pressure to play NAW and, yet, here we are.

So far Jax has done the little things in setting screens, positioning on the defensive glass, and a reducing in his fouling. Let the kid grow.

Not sure where you get that from. Zion does not have zero basketball IQ at all, not even close. I think we have a completely different view of basketball IQ.

[pelafanatic]

Not sure where you get that from. Zion does not have zero basketball IQ at all, not even close. I think we have a completely different view of basketball IQ.

My point was it's not functional at the moment. The game is way too fast for him right now. Zion has a higher bball IQ than Jax, no question, but it's not necessarily translating yet because he's still so young. I should've been more clear

[pelafanatic]

Again, its not a knock to say a 20 year old has a low bball IQ. BI was just on JJ's podcast talking about how the game is finally starting to slow down for him from a playmaking perspective. This is a guy who is in year 5. It should be expected that these guys are a step or 2 slow

[ramsters60]

does anyone know if Magnay has joined the team yet or not? We talk a little about Hernongomez, but I have heard nothing about Magnay at all lately....

[N.O.Bronco]

Yea honestly I hated most of the prospects in last years draft. I still don't really think anyone outside of the top 2 are good right now. I think RJ will be good if he's ever in the right situation. Herro benefits from being in the best possible situation he could've gone to, but I think there's still a ton of development left for him to really be considered a starter on a championship team. Regardless, I'd obviously rather Herro than Jax right now.

We can talk all we want about who we should've taken at 8, but outside of those 4, I'm still of the opinion that Hayes has the most upside in that draft. What the Pels FO realizes that, for some reason, the fan base does not is that there's no reason to rush the process. We're not winning anything this year outside of maybe a play-in game, so develop your talent even if it means dropping a game here and there.

I mean Garland, Hunter, Rui, and Reddish all look like starter quality players right now.

Garland is averaging 19-8-4 to start the season, Hunter 13-7-2 after a solid rookie campaign, Reddish 10-5 on efficient shooting and playing borderline elite D, Rui is injured but finished last year efficiently and solidly.

I?m not writing Hayes off either, he was the rawest prospect in the top of the draft, but what does concern me is not just the track record of his type of prospect but that a lot of the issues I see aren?t just the complexity of the new system, it’s effort and messing up very simple read and react stuff most players that have played some level of competitive basketball understand. And while we chalk a lot of the rebounding issue up to filling out his frame, he’s been poor going back to High School. That lack of seeing some clear progression in his development is concerning.

As for how to go about this season, I actually agree, and in that regard I hope SVG will soon get some minutes in for our other guards so they can be developed as well. Since as is the schedule isn’t really affording many opportunities to hold practice it would seem. So I don’t want this to be a wasted season for Kira and NAW.

[JJackisangry]

I think the fact that we got Adams makes Jax infinitely more valuable. Not only is the burden much less on him to be great now, he can study under one of the best bigs in the game while logging significant minutes to boot. Not concerned one bit about Hayes. I am concerned about Nickeil. Is he sleeping with Stan/Gentry’s daughters simultaneously? Part of me blames Stan because he is running 8-man 9man rotations. He can afford to add one more. Is there something going on behind the scenes with NAW? It’s one of those things that will probably stay in the locker room for the foreseeable future.

[As I See It]

Of the top 13 picks in the 2019 the two players with the fewest minutes played thus far in their careers are JAXSON (1,107) and injured Zion (774)

Of the top 13 picks in the 2019, JAXSON has the lowest scoring average (7.1)

Of the top 13 picks in the 2019 Draft, JAXSON has the best shooting percentage (.669)

[Taker597]

I mean Garland, Hunter, Rui, and Reddish all look like starter quality players right now.

Garland is averaging 19-8-4 to start the season, Hunter 13-7-2 after a solid rookie campaign, Reddish 10-5 on efficient shooting and playing borderline elite D, Rui is injured but finished last year efficiently and solidly.

I?m not writing Hayes off either, he was the rawest prospect in the top of the draft, but what does concern me is not just the track record of his type of prospect but that a lot of the issues I see aren?t just the complexity of the new system, it’s effort and messing up very simple read and react stuff most players that have played some level of competitive basketball understand. And while we chalk a lot of the rebounding issue up to filling out his frame, he’s been poor going back to High School. That lack of seeing some clear progression in his development is concerning.

As for how to go about this season, I actually agree, and in that regard I hope SVG will soon get some minutes in for our other guards so they can be developed as well. Since as is the schedule isn’t really affording many opportunities to hold practice it would seem. So I don’t want this to be a wasted season for Kira and NAW.

None of those players fit in this core tho.

[MichaelMcNamara]

None of those players fit in this core tho.

The point isnt to draft all players to fit the core to stay long term and all grow together. You want every guy you take to have some value - either for you or around the league so you can trade them for better fitting pieces.

And there is no debate that someone like Reddish would have a lot more value in a trade than Hayes has now.

[6warddude]

I mean Garland, Hunter, Rui, and Reddish all look like starter quality players right now.

Garland is averaging 19-8-4 to start the season, Hunter 13-7-2 after a solid rookie campaign, Reddish 10-5 on efficient shooting and playing borderline elite D, Rui is injured but finished last year efficiently and solidly.

I?m not writing Hayes off either, he was the rawest prospect in the top of the draft, but what does concern me is not just the track record of his type of prospect but that a lot of the issues I see aren?t just the complexity of the new system, it’s effort and messing up very simple read and react stuff most players that have played some level of competitive basketball understand. And while we chalk a lot of the rebounding issue up to filling out his frame, he’s been poor going back to High School. That lack of seeing some clear progression in his development is concerning.

As for how to go about this season, I actually agree, and in that regard I hope SVG will soon get some minutes in for our other guards so they can be developed as well. Since as is the schedule isn’t really affording many opportunities to hold practice it would seem. So I don’t want this to be a wasted season for Kira and NAW.

the lack of effort and being lazy at times is what drive me crazy about hayes....

[MichaelMcNamara]

I dont see laziness at all. I see a guy who has no idea what is going on out there and is a step (or seven) slow as a result. And could that improve? Sure. If he stays healthy he will likely be at least a solid backup in the league. Too long and athletically skilled not to be. But that will be years down the line, after he gets passed around and on minimum contracts (think what Marquisse Chriss was becoming before he just got hurt)

With Zion and Ingram as your core, you want positional and skill versatility. I still cant wrap my mind around taking a pure center with the 8th overall pick. And one so raw with no signs of having any above avg skill (let alone an elite one) yet. I just will never get it.

[Taker597]

The point isnt to draft all players to fit the core to stay long term and all grow together. You want every guy you take to have some value - either for you or around the league so you can trade them for better fitting pieces.

And there is no debate that someone like Reddish would have a lot more value in a trade than Hayes has now.

The vague point that i lazy implied due to driving 10 hours is that the stats those players put up has no correlation to how they would do here is all. In fact the roster would probably be pretty different.

I get that this woulda coulda discussion is actually interesting to think in a vaccum. Trading back will always be viewed in mind as a bad move in the NBA draft in no matter how you argue it. Trading back isn't always beneficial move to find talent. The whole concept is find a talent that slips under the rader... Which happens and everything.

Although, it's pretty easy to look in hindsight that the vision last year during the draft was to invest in all the young talent you acquired through the AD trade. They wanted Lonzo amd Jrue to work. It didn't, but they still love Lonzo. MGMT... Be the way they are... If there is a 100 NBA front office moves, about only 15-20 of them are great.

I still like the NAW and Hayes picks. They are long term projects, but we got time. Garland, Hunter, and etc are better places that helps them showcase themselves better. Do I see them having that same impact here? Probably not.

[PaKwAn]

This is off topic, but watching Christian Wood play makes me think how we missed a guy that would have been a good fit for this team... i read somewhere that it was because of his attitude that we let go of him... this guy can play though!

[Taker597]

This is off topic, but watching Christian Wood play makes me think how we missed a guy that would have been a good fit for this team... i read somewhere that it was because of his attitude that we let go of him... this guy can play though!

Wood wouldn't come here to be a back up.

[PaKwAn]

Wood wouldn't come here to be a back up.

Knowing what happened to favors when we signed him, we should of just tried and started wood instead of signing favors who was just a shell of himself when he played here... smart decision for wood though, cause he got himself paid.

[Pelicanidae]

Knowing what happened to favors when we signed him, we should of just tried and started wood instead of signing favors who was just a shell of himself when he played here... smart decision for wood though, cause he got himself paid.

Hindsight is 20/20. Favors had been a very very very good player for multiple years before that: there was no reason to expect his back to suddenly give out completely and for his mother to die, thus ruining his year. ''Knowing what happened to Favors, we should have done X'' is all very well to say, but there's no way to have known that at the time.

[new city champ]

Thinking Wood should be a Pel isn’t really an ex post facto argument. As discussed on earlier threads, the clear expectation after the ‘18-‘19 season was that the Pels would bring him back. His 8-game try out had gone well, he was working out with the team in the offseason and on the Pels’ Summer League roster. Then, something. He doesn’t suit up for Summer League and the new regime opts to bring over Melli from Europe. So, there was a definite decision by Griff & Co. not to sign him. Question has always been “why?”

[Pelicanidae]

Thinking Wood should be a Pel isn’t really an ex post facto argument. As discussed on earlier threads, the clear expectation after the ‘18-‘19 season was that the Pels would bring him back. His 8-game try out had gone well, he was working out with the team in the offseason and on the Pels’ Summer League roster. Then, something. He doesn’t suit up for Summer League and the new regime opts to bring over Melli from Europe. So, there was a definite decision by Griff & Co. not to sign him. Question has always been “why?”

Thinking Wood should be a Pel isn't a post-hoc position, but thinking Wood should be a Pel because we should have somehow known what was going to happen to Favors is.

[As I See It]

I said we should have kept Wood before the fact; not after. And, no, analytics is not my thing.

We can only hope that JAX will improve in a similar manner because, at present, JAX looks like the undrafted free agent and Wood, an Eighth overall draft selection.

By far, letting Wood go has been Griff's biggest slip-up since coming to New Orleans. Further, we could have probably gotten Wood back last summer for far less than it's cost us to bring in Adams (no slight on Adams, the second best player on this team - just a fact).

[MichaelMcNamara]

Wood was never going to be a Pelicans with Griff as the GM. He wants a certain type of culture and human being in the building. He talks about it ALL THE TIME.

I wont get into the details but if you know some of the off court things with Wood, you would know instantly that he was never going to be here. He could be on a 5 year minimum deal right now and Griff wouldnt take him.

[heybigmatt]

Wood was never going to be a Pelicans with Griff as the GM. He wants a certain type of culture and human being in the building. He talks about it ALL THE TIME.

I wont get into the details but if you know some of the off court things with Wood, you would know instantly that he was never going to be here. He could be on a 5 year minimum deal right now and Griff wouldnt take him.

Same deal with the pistons. They would literally take anyone but Wood. A lot of teams have a lot of concerns about Wood.

[pelafanatic]

Wood was never going to be a Pelicans with Griff as the GM. He wants a certain type of culture and human being in the building. He talks about it ALL THE TIME.

I wont get into the details but if you know some of the off court things with Wood, you would know instantly that he was never going to be here. He could be on a 5 year minimum deal right now and Griff wouldnt take him.

There's a reason that the only team he was linked to this offseason was the team with an abundance of locker room issues and nothing to lose