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Thread: We're all getting frustrated at taking Hayes @ 8 but....

  1. #76
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    The point isnt to draft all players to fit the core to stay long term and all grow together. You want every guy you take to have some value - either for you or around the league so you can trade them for better fitting pieces.

    And there is no debate that someone like Reddish would have a lot more value in a trade than Hayes has now.
    It was a bit curious to me that we did not take Reddish at 8. I would have thought that pairing him with Zion would have been a natural thought and he was considered a value pick at that point.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    It was a bit curious to me that we did not take Reddish at 8. I would have thought that pairing him with Zion would have been a natural thought and he was considered a value pick at that point.
    The legend of Cam Reddish is quickly becoming greater than his production. Most people going into the draft believed he was deeply flawed in key areas. His jumper is incredibly inconsistent; and, while he can jump in theory, he doesn't really have as much functional athleticism as you would think. His steal rate is his most appealing trait right now, to me.

    I have heard that he's a pretty cool dude and would have fit well in our culture, so that's disappointing.

    The difference between a project big and a project wing is that, at the end of the rookie deals, you have to pay project wings for their flashes. That isn't the case with project bigs, historically. The Raptors just brought Boucher back on a 2 year 13 million dollar deal, with the second year being unguaranteed. Poeltl just signed 3/26. Cauley-Stein is on 2/8. Even Myles Turner and Sabonis are only making 18 mil a year.

    My point is, its possible that if you want to take a project, taking a big makes the most sense because it gives you a little more time before you have to pay out a huge contract. (Not sure I necessarily believe in this take)

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    The legend of Cam Reddish is quickly becoming greater than his production. Most people going into the draft believed he was deeply flawed in key areas. His jumper is incredibly inconsistent; and, while he can jump in theory, he doesn't really have as much functional athleticism as you would think. His steal rate is his most appealing trait right now, to me.

    I have heard that he's a pretty cool dude and would have fit well in our culture, so that's disappointing.
    I agree. Cam had a bunch of really obvious problems pre-draft, mostly to do with his offense. His defense was, and remains, extremely promising, but the offense has been extraordinarily up and down.

    For example, last year (58 games) he was a 54% finisher at a rim, which for a guy of his size is very poor, and shot 31%, 35%, and 35% from the various stages of midrange (paint, close mid, long mid), to go with an overall 33% from 3. This year, of course, his numbers look very good, mostly from 3, but it's also 3 games in. Do I believe the jumper will have improved a bit? Yeah, sure I do, that's normal and it's not like he was without touch - he was a really good FT shooter last year. Do I think it's suddenly 40% on 7 a game? No, not really.

    His defense is the thing I buy as being legitimate; the jumper I expect to be solid, maybe even quite good, but I would be fairly surprised if he was ever a super high volume sniper who can bury any shot.

    And yeah, basically not an athlete in the traditional NBA sense at all. Poor leaper, off one foot or two, not explosive, has very little quick twitch acceleration.
    Basketball.

  4. #79
    I would like to take a minor victory lap for the success of Sabonis though, now you've mentioned him. I remember back when he was in OKC and people (not necessarily on this board in specific, just generally) were talking about how mediocre he looked and unimpressive, and I was one of the people who bought a lot of stock on Sabonis Island quite early on, so I'm glad to see him just looking fantastic.

  5. #80
    The Franchise PeliKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I would like to take a minor victory lap for the success of Sabonis though, now you've mentioned him. I remember back when he was in OKC and people (not necessarily on this board in specific, just generally) were talking about how mediocre he looked and unimpressive, and I was one of the people who bought a lot of stock on Sabonis Island quite early on, so I'm glad to see him just looking fantastic.
    I would also like to take a victory lap. I was high on Garland and thought we should trade for him this off-season. It's a small sample size but I think he's gonna have a good season, possibly MIP candidate.

  6. #81
    Rewatching the Spurs game right now to specifically watch Jax. His run in the first half has actually been quite good. He talks alot defensively. His plus/minus (which does not matter) is a direct result of some horrible outside shooting by the Pels. Poeltl is a tough matchup for Jax, but he basically held his own the entire quarter.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Rewatching the Spurs game right now to specifically watch Jax. His run in the first half has actually been quite good. He talks alot defensively. His plus/minus (which does not matter) is a direct result of some horrible outside shooting by the Pels. Poeltl is a tough matchup for Jax, but he basically held his own the entire quarter.
    2nd quarter: He's made two extremely nice bounce passes to cutters that haven't led to points because of missed layups. He needs to work on returning to his main after hedging on the screen defensively

  8. #83
    Just finished Jax’s minutes and I have to say, his plus minus is a direct result of Bledsoe and JJ not being able to hit open 3s against the zone. I did not think he played poorly at all. He played a majority of his minutes against Poeltl and totally held his own strength-wise. If the Pels had anyone that could get him the ball in the PnR, he would’ve had a solid game

    That being said, I think he needs to see some minutes with Ingram. I think their two man game could be really nice offensively. The only issue there may be defensive rebounding. Give the kid a shot. Let him continue to ply extensive minutes and find a rhythm

  9. #84
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeliKhan View Post
    I would also like to take a victory lap. I was high on Garland and thought we should trade for him this off-season. It's a small sample size but I think he's gonna have a good season, possibly MIP candidate.
    There was no way they were trading him this off-season. I thought if we had stayed at 4, he made a lot of sense, mainly due to his shooting. Loved Sabonis in college. His hustle was always there. Paid attention to him because I liked his dad when he played.

  10. #85
    I'd also like to say after rewatching that game that Zion is beginning to turn a corner defensively. Had 5 steals the other night, and a number of those came from reading passing lanes prior to the pass being made. Stuff we haven't really seen since his Duke days. Once his mind catches up to his athleticism, he'll be a joy to watch on that end

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    Just finished Jax?s minutes and I have to say, his plus minus is a direct result of Bledsoe and JJ not being able to hit open 3s against the zone. I did not think he played poorly at all. He played a majority of his minutes against Poeltl and totally held his own strength-wise. If the Pels had anyone that could get him the ball in the PnR, he would?ve had a solid game

    That being said, I think he needs to see some minutes with Ingram. I think their two man game could be really nice offensively. The only issue there may be defensive rebounding. Give the kid a shot. Let him continue to ply extensive minutes and find a rhythm
    I agree. I think the Jax hate is getting a little carried away. I thought he showed some defensive improvement in the last game and did a better job at helping and then getting back to his man. He just happened to be in the game when the Spurs went into their zone defense which our shooters weren’t able to take advantage of.

  12. #87
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    well, jax should have a good game tonight..the suns backup bigs are bad just as ours......he should have about 8- 10 rebounds if he plays 10+ mins...

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni View Post
    I agree. I think the Jax hate is getting a little carried away. I thought he showed some defensive improvement in the last game and did a better job at helping and then getting back to his man. He just happened to be in the game when the Spurs went into their zone defense which our shooters weren’t able to take advantage of.
    I am of the firm opinion that he showed steady improvement over the course of his rookie season, and the advanced statistics back up that claim; while his counting numbers were not the gaudiest, he had some of the best impact statistics among his entire rookie class. Of course he has a long way to go, but he showed progress.

    He needs experience, and he needs practice. This is obvious to everyone. But some people act like he's made precisely 2 good plays since entering the NBA and it's just blatantly misinformed.

  14. #89
    Is it Hilton Hayes, of Jaxson Simmons?
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    Is it Hilton Hayes, of Jaxson Simmons?
    Or Larue Hayes or JAXSON Bowie.

    (Both Portland Trail Blazer Lemons)

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Or Larue Hayes or JAXSON Bowie.

    (Both Portland Trail Blazer Lemons)
    What’s sad is that both of those lemons (Simmons and Armstrong) were taken in the same draft.

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    Or Larue Hayes or JAXSON Bowie.

    (Both Portland Trail Blazer Lemons)
    What's sad about these lemons were that Larue Martin was the first overall pick in a draft that feature Hall of Famer's Bob McAdoo, and DR. J. And Sam Bowie (2nd overall pick) was drafted ahead of Air Jordan. [Larue played a total of 271 games (starts = 0)]

  18. #93
    My worry with Hayes is he still hasnt learned how to set a screen properly and position his self correctly under the basket. I would sit him down with some Rudy Gobert film and build a blueprint for him. I can only hope.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Pels4Life View Post
    My worry with Hayes is he still hasnt learned how to set a screen properly and position his self correctly under the basket. I would sit him down with some Rudy Gobert film and build a blueprint for him. I can only hope.
    Just as an aside, I even more concerned that Eric Bledsoe (in his 11th year) doesn't know how to use a screen. He hung both Jaxson and Adams (and Zion I think) out to dry last night by not letting them come set before using them. Result Offensive fouls both.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pels4Life View Post
    My worry with Hayes is he still hasnt learned how to set a screen properly and position his self correctly under the basket. I would sit him down with some Rudy Gobert film and build a blueprint for him. I can only hope.

    NAW hung hayes out to dry last night on screens....the times hayes came up to set the screens ,,NAW took off running before hayes could get set lol......now , NAW was waiting and using adams screens right and scoring off of them but for some reason he was making hayes look bad on screen setting last night...

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