December 25th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Miami Heat - 1-0

[Wowowowow]

Mac is going hard at Zion on Twitter which is ********

But I agree with his take on Jax. Why take someone @ #8 who'll take 6 years to develop and most likely won't survive his first contract?

This is getting to Hasheem Thabeet levels of bad

That?s because majority of people are aesthetics watchers who likely never played the game.

Anyone ...anyone...who has played ball seriously knows that a first step is the single most valuable attribute a player can have. Every player in the league if you asked them what would they like out of anything...shooting, hops, ball-handling...they would all say a first step first. It transcends ?skills?. Healthy D Wade won a finals series off of it when he was at his healthiest.

Zion dominates bc he has an extremely fast first step and he actually has maybe the second most valuable attribute: insane touch around the basket.

Anyone calling that a one trick pony skill is clueless.

[Wowowowow]

2 players under the age of 23 doing wild stuff. One in his 26th game LOL! Insane stuff!

We have the look and feel of single white female scorned fans I?m sorry.

I hope we appreciate what?s really going on before it?s too late.

[Pelicanidae]

Zion dominates bc he has an extremely fast first step and he actually has maybe the second most valuable attribute: insane touch around the basket.

Anyone calling that a one trick pony skill is clueless.

Literally the most valuable thing a player can do (at least on offense, but possibly just overall) is consistently create highly efficient offense.

Zion's best skill is regularly creating the most efficient shots in the game: point blank rim attempts and FTs.

When people complain that ''all he does is shoot inside 3 feet'', they're essentially just complaining that he doesn't take worse, less effective shots. I agree that a lot of this is aesthetic bias: people have an image in their heads of what greatness looks like, and for various reasons that often involves a lot of turnaround fadeaway midrange jumpers, and other similar moves. The reality is, if you can get a layup instead, you should 9 times out of 10 - they're more efficient, more likely to draw FTs, and therefore create more effective offense. But it doesn't look as pretty to some, so they complain.

As I said early, this is the same stuff people say about Giannis now - ''all he does is run and dunk!'' - and they used to say it about Shaq as well.

If Zion's a 1 trick pony, ''consistently creating the best possible offense'' is a pretty good trick.

[As I See It]

That?s because majority of people are aesthetics watchers who likely never played the game.

Anyone ...anyone...who has played ball seriously knows that a first step is the single most valuable attribute a player can have. Every player in the league if you asked them what would they like out of anything...shooting, hops, ball-handling...they would all say a first step first. It transcends ?skills?. Healthy D Wade won a finals series off of it when he was at his healthiest.

Zion dominates bc he has an extremely fast first step and he actually has maybe the second most valuable attribute: insane touch around the basket.

Anyone calling that a one trick pony skill is clueless.

At this point in time he is a one trick pony. Save for what he does in the paint, he offers little else. Take the window away from him and he offers very little in terms of offensive production. Defensively, he's simply a mess right now. This is where he's at today...anyone who denies it is clueless.

[luckyman]

That?s because majority of people are aesthetics watchers who likely never played the game.

Anyone ...anyone...who has played ball seriously knows that a first step is the single most valuable attribute a player can have. Every player in the league if you asked them what would they like out of anything...shooting, hops, ball-handling...they would all say a first step first. It transcends ?skills?. Healthy D Wade won a finals series off of it when he was at his healthiest.

Zion dominates bc he has an extremely fast first step and he actually has maybe the second most valuable attribute: insane touch around the basket.

Anyone calling that a one trick pony skill is clueless.

They all would say they want a first step? Thats would an actual player would want? MMkay

Yeah but Zion isn't a one-trick pony at all. He actually needs to be able to get to the rim to score so easily.

As for that Miami game, still not sure why they stopped going to Adams. He had it going and Miami really had no one to match up with him. Still some Gentryitis on this team.

[Wowowowow]

They all would say they want a first step? Thats would an actual player would want? MMkay

Yes lol.. It?s actually the ?talk? of players. The ?Deion? speed of the Nba.
More than hops. It?s what they ?you see how quick yada yada is...sheesh? in the locker rooms over everything. Because it?s not a teachable attribute or something you can go to the gym and get better at for the most part, they actually ?feel? it on the court (what viewers can?t get a grip of is the speed on the court) and tbh logically if you think about it...it?s a holy grail advantage at breaking down a defense In the half court which is the tough grain of basketball. Majority of the all time great scorers who put up huge numbers had a lightening quick first step. It?s what separated them. When superstars are spotlighted in the triple threat stance on the high post in iso and you see the defense moving in and out the paint to derail them...what?s the fear?

Yes...if they could choose any attribute and were polled from experience... it?s a first step lol I wouldn?t make that up.

[Wowowowow]

At this point in time he is a one trick pony. Save for what he does in the paint, he offers little else. Take the window away from him and he offers very little in terms of offensive production. Defensively, he's simply a mess right now. This is where he's at today...anyone who denies it is clueless.

This would be find and dandy if it was a throw away B Side praise you bury in an article because you know it’s fluff..some alley pop statistics.

...From what we have seen... The guy is all time great at scoring in the paint. This is less about fanboy than it is about waking up and smelling the coffee. Imagine being a warriors fan calling Steph a one trick pony with shooting in 2010 and then waking up and realizing it’s Folgers in your cup the whole time. That’s really how this is looking. He’s 20 years old fellas.

I’m really trying to get some of you out of your own way with doom and gloom.

[Pelicanidae]

Imagine being a warriors fan calling Steph a one trick pony with shooting in 2010 and then waking up and realizing it’s Folgers in your cup the whole time.

People did, in fact, make fun of Steph for ''just shooting threes''. Steph ignored them and won 2 MVPs off it.

Turns out if you have a skill that you're incredible at, and nobody can stop you doing it, you should probably just keep doing it.

[JJackisangry]

Isn’t it impressive that Zion is putting up 32 by being limited? That just means when he adds something to his game he will be that much more unstoppable. It is year 2. Zion is fine where he is.

[Eman5805]

Calling Zion a one trick whatever is like instilling Michael Thomas as a “slant boy.”

It jut reveals every corner who covers him as made to look pathetic since he’s jut running one route, right? One tric? Then stop it? Can’t guard Mike. Can’t guard Zion

[As I See It]

Imagine being a warriors fan calling Steph a one trick pony with shooting in 2010 and then waking up and realizing it’s Folgers in your cup the whole time. That’s really how this is looking. He’s 20 years old fellas.

You comparison with Steph is hilarious...Steph took the ball to the goal and created for others from day one....but I'll play.

You think I am insulting Zion when I say he's a 'One Horse Pony' right now; I assure you I am not. I'm only stating the obvious. When he came out, Zion was compared to Charles Barkley, Larry Johnson and (hold on to your boots) the 'great' Lebron James. There is/was considerably more to these NBA greats' games than bull-dozing to their way to the glass and each played defense adequately. But alas, to date, that's all Zion has shown...a three foot game, no?

If I'm wrong in my assessment and missing something he's shown at present, please correct me. I'm not talking about what will be...I'm talking about the realities of the present. Hopes and dreams are one thing....projections are another. But, to date, he has earned the moniker, One Trick Pony, IMO!!

[MichaelMcNamara]

Calling Zion a one trick whatever is like instilling Michael Thomas as a “slant boy.”

It jut reveals every corner who covers him as made to look pathetic since he’s jut running one route, right? One tric? Then stop it? Can’t guard Mike. Can’t guard Zion

Here's my thing --- Can they stop Zion when the game actually matters? Answer: Yes.

Just like Giannis in the deeper rounds of the playoffs. There is the famous Draymond line about 82 game players and 16 game players. I also think there are 42 minute players and 6 minute players.

Defenses are jsut different in those 6 minutes. Guys lock in and take away all the things you want to do. Giannis still hasn't figured out what to do in those final 6 minutes. He is the best player in the world by a WIDE margin in the first 42 minutes of the game. But someone like Chris Paul is infinitely more valuable in the final 6

Zion will always put up numbers because he will get a bunch in those first 42 minutes, or like he did vs Miami - in the final 6 when the game is over. But my worry is that he is trending toward Giannis if he thinks he can just overpower guys in the final 6 mins. That dont work

[MichaelMcNamara]

KD and Kyrie
Lebron and AD
Embiid and Simmons
Kawhi and PG
Jokic and Murray

I can go on and on..... only ONE duo this year will win a title. The others will all fail and be disappointed. That is what I am thinking about long term with Zion and Ingram. So, if you think I am being hard on Zion, I am just ahead of the curve. Because one day you wont be able to use the "he's only x years old" line and when the Pelicans lose at the end of that year, you will be frustrated. And yes, the supporting cast probably wont be perfect. But you win titles because your top guy is THE top guy. The alpha in all four series. That's 9 out of 10 years, save for the random '04 Pistons kind of titles

And we all know Ingram wont be THE man. So, if this franchise is ever gonna win a title, Zion has to be the best, most dominant force on the planet. And he wont get through 4 rounds with bully ball. He will need to become far more skilled and give far more effort. Lebron had issues with his jumper at 20, but you wont turn on a game from that year and watch him overweight and walking up and down the court.

Again....highest level. The best of the best. We need him to become THAT. And if you guys see that as his likely future, then we just have a difference of opinion. Because I never saw the best of the best just walk up and down the court at any age.

[Pelicanidae]

So, if you think I am being hard on Zion, I am just ahead of the curve. Because one day you wont be able to use the "he's only x years old" line and when the Pelicans lose at the end of that year, you will be frustrated.

Things are different in different circumstances. You judge 20 year olds fewer than 30 games into their NBA careers differently than how you judge 24 year olds on their second contract with 200 games under their belts. ''if you think I am being hard on Zion, I am just ahead of the curve'' translates to you judging the former with the standards of the latter, and unsurprisingly it looks unreasonable. Because it is unreasonable.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I agree when it comes to skill. Not effort. If he had the same lack of skill but was running up and down the court, getting back on D after one of his bad iso drive turnovers, etc then I would be super high on him

I expect a 20 yr old to lack all the skills. But the effort and conditioning are the bad signs to me. 20 yr old Lebron, Kobe, Giannis, MJ.... I can go on and on. All needed to work on skills. They didn't need to get in shape and walk up and down the court. THAT is my issue if I am trying to project him as being as great as he will need to be to bring this franchise a title

[MichaelMcNamara]

I wish we could see the alternative world where we had Ja and Memphis had Zion. I would bet any amount that what I am saying about Zion would be the consensus and that most/all would say they wouldn't trade Ja for Zion.

Being a fan is awesome. But for constructive convo, imagine removing all bias or even imagine yourself with the opposite bias. Things become more clear

[As I See It]

I wish we could see the alternative world where we had Ja and Memphis had Zion. I would bet any amount that what I am saying about Zion would be the consensus and that most/all would say they wouldn't trade Ja for Zion.

Being a fan is awesome. But for constructive convo, imagine removing all bias or even imagine yourself with the opposite bias. Things become more clear

This!!

[luckyman]

This!!

NOT that!

Funny how we want to talk about "bias" and being "constructive."

Yet after that Toronto game, these same characters didn't come on here talking about him being a one trick pony. Yet after a loss, here they come with all their "unbiasedness."

If you are truly unbiased, then come on here and talk your "constructive" ponderisms after he posts 32 & 14 after a win. Don't let your own bias allow you to flap your gums about him negatively when it's convenient.

As they say, 'keep that same energy.'

[As I See It]

NOT that!

Funny how we want to talk about "bias" and being "constructive."

Yet after that Toronto game, these same characters didn't come on here talking about him being a one trick pony. Yet after a loss, here they come with all their "unbiasedness."

If you are truly unbiased, then come on here and talk your "constructive" ponderisms after he posts 32 & 14 after a win. Don't let your own bias allow you to flap your gums about him negatively when it's convenient.

As they say, 'keep that same energy.'

Lucky...I do respect your opinion, but I have said nothing new about Zion that I haven't said before. Right now, his game is limited.

[JJackisangry]

Lucky...I do respect your opinion, but I have said nothing new about Zion that I haven't said before. Right now, his game is limited.

His game is limited, but why can’t it get better? I don’t think it’s fair to base everything off his second year. And yes, I do think he needs to add several things to his game. He is still very good right now

[As I See It]

His game is limited, but why can’t it get better? I don’t think it’s fair to base everything off his second year. And yes, I do think he needs to add several things to his game. He is still very good right now

Isn't that all I am saying when I say he's currently a one trick pony? Where he's at now is not where he needs to be to live up to his promise.

Some folks (fans) want to turn a blind eye to their idol's shortcomings. It's amazing how 'bad' AD got on this forum the minute he left town. Why? Because he instantly became less of a player? No, it was because some felt personally betrayed.

When you evaluate talent in any station in life, you have to do so dispassionately to be fair to all party's concerned.

[JJackisangry]

Isn't that all I am saying when I say he's currently a one trick pony? Where he's at now is not where he needs to be to live up to his promise.

Some folks (fans) want to turn a blind eye to their idol's shortcomings. It's amazing how 'bad' AD got on this forum the minute he left town. Why? Because he instantly became less of a player? No it was because some felt personally betrayed.

When you evaluate talent in any station in life, you have to so dispassionately to be fair to all party's concerned.

It’s obvious he is limited though. Most people aren’t pretending otherwise. I don’t think now is the time to be overly negative on him as he is living up to the hype. The man is putting up silly numbers and his rebounding has taken another step. It’s up to him to keep improving. I’m okay with where he is at now.

[Funcrusher]

I wish we could see the alternative world where we had Ja and Memphis had Zion. I would bet any amount that what I am saying about Zion would be the consensus and that most/all would say they wouldn't trade Ja for Zion.

Being a fan is awesome. But for constructive convo, imagine removing all bias or even imagine yourself with the opposite bias. Things become more clear

I guarantee you the majority wouldn't say that. Zion is objectively better than Ja, right now, and that is with the caveat that Ja has made tremendous strides since entering the league, while Zion really hasn't. If people wanna talk about disingenuous... that's it right there.

[Pelicanidae]

It’s obvious he is limited though. Most people aren’t pretending otherwise. I don’t think now is the time to be overly negative on him as he is living up to the hype. The man is putting up silly numbers and his rebounding has taken another step. It’s up to him to keep improving. I’m okay with where he is at now.

Yeah, of course. Does Zion have stuff to add before he's a top 10 player and leader of a championship calibre squad? Of course he does, you'd be an idiot to say otherwise. To truly reach that level he needs to turn his passing into a more regular thing rather than a handful of times a game, his defense needs to step up a couple of notches and yes, it would be nice if he could be at least a mediocre shooter (I have long been arguing that I think that's probable). If he still has these holes in his game in 3 or 4 years time, then sure, they will be totally warranted serious critiques of his ability to be The Guy.

Does that mean dumping on him for that, as if it's at all unusual for a 20 year old to be in that situation, is warranted? No.

[Pelicanidae]

I guarantee you the majority wouldn't say that. Zion is objectively better than Ja, right now, and that is with the caveat that Ja has made tremendous strides since entering the league, while Zion really hasn't. If people wanna talk about disingenuous... that's it right there.

Yeah it's ridiculous. As if people haven't been arguing on this board that they would have rather taken Ja from day 1.