Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread

[AusPel]

Griff is doing all he can to get a pick to get Haliburton. If it were to happen, it would be something like:

Warriors get: 13, 24, WCJ

Pels get: #4, filler (Satoransky? Thad?)

Bulls get: Lonzo, #2, Looney

Warriors get a starting center who might be as good or better than Wiseman anyway and picks to fill out roster. Bulls get Ball Brothers. hPels get their third young core piece. That would be the trade in the miracle world where it happens

Is it Griff or you living vicariously through Griff?

Because you're the highest on Haliburton out of anyone really

[Pelicanidae]

Is it Griff or you living vicariously through Griff?

Because you're the highest on Haliburton out of anyone really

It really is quite strange. I like Haliburton (I know it may not seem that way sometimes but I do, I've had him as high as top 8 in my estimations at times this season) but the idea that a team would give up multiple firsts and players specifically to target him seems very bizarre to me. Nobody else I know, have read, or have watched is as high on Haliburton as MM is: in another thread, he listed Hali as #1 on his Pels big board, which is wild.

[Taker597]

I rather get a trio of picks in the teens than go all in for 6th overall, personally.

[DroopyDawg]

Source says the Bulls want Lonzo to pair him with LaMelo. What would it cost? Lonzo for markennan and their 1st next year?

Zach.

[MichaelMcNamara]

It really is quite strange. I like Haliburton (I know it may not seem that way sometimes but I do, I've had him as high as top 8 in my estimations at times this season) but the idea that a team would give up multiple firsts and players specifically to target him seems very bizarre to me. Nobody else I know, have read, or have watched is as high on Haliburton as MM is: in another thread, he listed Hali as #1 on his Pels big board, which is wild.

There are analytics models that had Haliburton as the clear #1 prospect before he went out. And again, I dont think anybody is wrapping their head around how upset Griffin was with the teams mentality last year. You guys dont know the stories, but put a drink in Jamelle McMillan and ask him how much Lonzo loves and cares about basketball.

We have a bunch of quiet, passive, spoiled young dudes on this team who have been told their 's' dont stink their whole lives. Griff is dying to get a few guys in here to shake all that up. Its not JUST about handle or explosiveness or pick and roll ability. Marcus Thornton will always be 10x more talented than Fred Van Vleet. But you take the best version of both of those guys, put them on similar teams and FVV spanks him 10 out of 10 times.

Leadership, will, hatred of losing, humility, being vocal..... we need way more of that than we do "shooting" or "playmaking".... and on top of that, like I said, the analytics models love Haliburton too. Its not like he is a scrub. He just isnt exciting in the mixtape way of being exciting. But if the goal is to win, and to lead, he excites our people a ton. As does Williams

[HornetGuru]

Griff is doing all he can to get a pick to get Haliburton. If it were to happen, it would be something like:

Warriors get: 13, 24, WCJ

Pels get: #4, filler (Satoransky? Thad?)

Bulls get: Lonzo, #2, Looney

Warriors get a starting center who might be as good or better than Wiseman anyway and picks to fill out roster. Bulls get Ball Brothers. Pels get their third young core piece. That would be the trade in the miracle world where it happens

But the bulls want Melo, how they gonna get him if they give us 4?

[smcgull]

I am here debating Maxey vs. Vassell. I think there is a world both are on the board at 13 and I dont know which one I will want most (before Griff breaks my heart and takes Bey or Jalen Smith, of course)

But for those brief few minutes, I will be debating back and forth.

Maxey said the Pelicans were the only team to work him out. I do not know what that means, if anything.

[Taker597]

There are analytics models that had Haliburton as the clear #1 prospect before he went out. And again, I dont think anybody is wrapping their head around how upset Griffin was with the teams mentality last year. You guys dont know the stories, but put a drink in Jamelle McMillan and ask him how much Lonzo loves and cares about basketball.

We have a bunch of quiet, passive, spoiled young dudes on this team who have been told their 's' dont stink their whole lives. Griff is dying to get a few guys in here to shake all that up. Its not JUST about handle or explosiveness or pick and roll ability. Marcus Thornton will always be 10x more talented than Fred Van Vleet. But you take the best version of both of those guys, put them on similar teams and FVV spanks him 10 out of 10 times.

Leadership, will, hatred of losing, humility, being vocal..... we need way more of that than we do "shooting" or "playmaking".... and on top of that, like I said, the analytics models love Haliburton too. Its not like he is a scrub. He just isnt exciting in the mixtape way of being exciting. But if the goal is to win, and to lead, he excites our people a ton. As does Williams

So... In laymen's term. We need some Jimmy Butler calling everyone a bunch of soft **********es. I agree. Championship mentality is aboit not being soft.

[MichaelMcNamara]

But the bulls want Melo, how they gonna get him if they give us 4?

Read again

[smcgull]

Maxey said the Pelicans were the only team to work him out. I do not know what that means, if anything.

Or was it he was the only player they worked out?

[HornetGuru]

Read again

My bad

[MichaelMcNamara]

So... In laymen's term. We need some Jimmy Butler calling everyone a bunch of soft **********es. I agree. Championship mentality is aboit not being soft.

Exactly. The Pels have the core talent. Zion and Ingram are here. Now they need some culture guys. One or two old, but one who is young too and will be a part of the Big 3/Big 4. And I cant emphasize enough how blown away every single person who interviewed and talked to Haliburton in this process has been with him.

If you are an exec and you have a picture for a culture in your head, and you are doing dozens of interviews, and then one person comes in and embodies every single thing that is in your head...you cant stop thinking about them. I have been there before. You have to get them.

[Pelicanidae]

There are analytics models that had Haliburton as the clear #1 prospect before he went out. And again, I dont think anybody is wrapping their head around how upset Griffin was with the teams mentality last year. You guys dont know the stories, but put a drink in Jamelle McMillan and ask him how much Lonzo loves and cares about basketball.

We have a bunch of quiet, passive, spoiled young dudes on this team who have been told their 's' dont stink their whole lives. Griff is dying to get a few guys in here to shake all that up. Its not JUST about handle or explosiveness or pick and roll ability. Marcus Thornton will always be 10x more talented than Fred Van Vleet. But you take the best version of both of those guys, put them on similar teams and FVV spanks him 10 out of 10 times.

Leadership, will, hatred of losing, humility, being vocal..... we need way more of that than we do "shooting" or "playmaking".... and on top of that, like I said, the analytics models love Haliburton too. Its not like he is a scrub. He just isnt exciting in the mixtape way of being exciting. But if the goal is to win, and to lead, he excites our people a ton. As does Williams

I have no doubt of the fact that there is discontent about how quiet our team is/was. But much as Griff may want to increase the level of vocal leadership on the team, I doubt he throws his toys out of the pram, has a tantrum, and makes a rash move where he throws massive quantities of assets at trades for what amounts to fairly unimpressive trade ups in a bad draft specifically so he can get a guy who is not actually that likely to be that great in the NBA.

You're acting like Haliburton is the only dude in the entire draft with a good mentality as well, which is absurd on its face. It's not like you come into this draft wanting someone with a good mentality and you only have one option that, if you don't get, you're doomed; you said it yourself, Patrick Williams is another guy like that also.

My point isn't that Haliburton is bad or anything. My point is that spending multiple firsts plus player equity for literally just him as the return is absurdly poor value, especially when what you think you get from him (''will'', ''leadership'', which are non-quantifiable terms) aren't even unique to that one guy by your own admission.

[Pelicanidae]

Exactly. The Pels have the core talent. Zion and Ingram are here. Now they need some culture guys. One or two old, but one who is young too and will be a part of the Big 3/Big 4. And I cant emphasize enough how blown away every single person who interviewed and talked to Haliburton in this process has been with him.

If you are an exec and you have a picture for a culture in your head, and you are doing dozens of interviews, and then one person comes in and embodies every single thing that is in your head...you cant stop thinking about them. I have been there before. You have to get them.

I swear you've posted that exact thing word for word on here before. Having massive deja vu. Did you go copy paste yourself?

[MichaelMcNamara]

I did not. But maybe I should because I dont know if its gotten through yet.

I am not emphasizing for what I want. I am giving you guys someone else's viewpoint.

For me, I would go get Patrick Williams - and the Pels still might. But I get the Haliburton logic, knowing the culture of those kids last year

[Pelicanidae]

I did not. But maybe I should because I dont know if its gotten through yet.

I am not emphasizing for what I want. I am giving you guys someone else's viewpoint.

For me, I would go get Patrick Williams - and the Pels still might. But I get the Haliburton logic, knowing the culture of those kids last year

The fact that people don't uniformly agree with you doesn't mean it hasn't gotten through. It just means they don't find what you're saying to be convincing.

I get the Haliburton logic, I just think it's bad logic that doesn't factor in other relevant information. The reality is, and I have also said this before (hey, maybe it's just not getting through) that your level of ''want to'' and ''will'' doesn't mean anything below a certain standard of play. To give an extreme example, I think we all acknowledge if you found someone who couldn't even dribble the ball and told them to join your team, no amount of desire or drive or vocal leadership would make that player anything other than a negative on the court because their ability would be so poor that they'd do irreparable damage.

Of course, Hali isn't that bad, but the point is to demonstrate that if you have a bunch of really serious flaws - which Haliburton does - then it doesn't matter if he gives good locker room speeches or makes faces on the court, you're going to have issues on the court and that does actually matter.

Edit: I will note, by the way, just as a reminder, that I don't hate Haliburton as a prospect. I just think he's a very particular prospect with certain key flaws that make him better suited to playing secondary or tertiary roles on better teams, and therefore is not the kind of guy you spend that many assets on getting.

[Pelicanidae]

Almost that time ⏰ pic.twitter.com/pSuFvTSieQ

— Florida State Men’s Basketball (@FSUHoops) November 19, 2020

Devin Vassell

[MichaelMcNamara]

The fact that people don't uniformly agree with you doesn't mean it hasn't gotten through. It just means they don't find what you're saying to be convincing.

I get the Haliburton logic, I just think it's bad logic that doesn't factor in other relevant information. The reality is, and I have also said this before (hey, maybe it's just not getting through) that your level of ''want to'' and ''will'' doesn't mean anything below a certain standard of play. To give an extreme example, I think we all acknowledge if you found someone who couldn't even dribble the ball and told them to join your team, no amount of desire or drive or vocal leadership would make that player anything other than a negative on the court because their ability would be so poor that they'd do irreparable damage.

Of course, Hali isn't that bad, but the point is to demonstrate that if you have a bunch of really serious flaws - which Haliburton does - then it doesn't matter if he gives good locker room speeches or makes faces on the court, you're going to have issues on the court and that does actually matter.

Edit: I will note, by the way, just as a reminder, that I don't hate Haliburton as a prospect. I just think he's a very particular prospect with certain key flaws that make him better suited to playing secondary or tertiary roles on better teams, and therefore is not the kind of guy you spend that many assets on getting.

I have no desire for people to "agree with me" since it isnt my philosophy

It was questioned as to whether this is me willing Griff to want Haliburton. Again, I want Patrick Williams, Haliburton, and Okongwu. But Williams most of all. I am just sharing other perspectives, from people with a different viewpoint than fans because they know these players as more than just players. They know them as personalities too, and recognize what kind of personalities we need to make the team elite. While fans usually just look at what skills are needed to make the team elite.

[Pelicanidae]

I have no desire for people to "agree with me" since it isnt my philosophy

It was questioned as to whether this is me willing Griff to want Haliburton. Again, I want Patrick Williams, Haliburton, and Okongwu. But Williams most of all. I am just sharing other perspectives, from people with a different viewpoint than fans because they know these players as more than just players. They know them as personalities too, and recognize what kind of personalities we need to make the team elite. While fans usually just look at what skills are needed to make the team elite.

If I want drive and ''will'' and all of those other things, I would just redouble my Maxey hype. Everything I've heard about him has told me he's an absolute dog, and I would honestly rather him for us than Haliburton. His ability to actually drive and pressure a defense as well as defend on the ball is so much more advanced than Haliburton's.

I get that you're saying it's not your take, you're just sharing information. I'm just responding to that perspective: it makes fairly little different to me if it's your perspective or not, because my reaction to it would be the same. Hopefully you aren't taking it personally.

[Pelicanidae]

Killian Hayes will have family all around him for this special moment!

2020 #NBADraft: 8pm/et, ESPN pic.twitter.com/AXukF99gLb

— NBA (@NBA) November 19, 2020

Killian Hayes

[msusousaphone]

Only 15 more minutes for people to join The Cult of Jalen Smith.

Repent, swine!

[DroopyDawg]

Exactly. The Pels have the core talent. Zion and Ingram are here. Now they need some culture guys. One or two old, but one who is young too and will be a part of the Big 3/Big 4. And I cant emphasize enough how blown away every single person who interviewed and talked to Haliburton in this process has been with him.

If you are an exec and you have a picture for a culture in your head, and you are doing dozens of interviews, and then one person comes in and embodies every single thing that is in your head...you cant stop thinking about them. I have been there before. You have to get them.

I've said for a while give me Zion, BI and Josh Hart... the entire rest of the team can go.

[Pelicanidae]

10 minutes ish!

[MichaelMcNamara]

If I want drive and ''will'' and all of those other things, I would just redouble my Maxey hype. Everything I've heard about him has told me he's an absolute dog, and I would honestly rather him for us than Haliburton. His ability to actually drive and pressure a defense as well as defend on the ball is so much more advanced than Haliburton's.

I get that you're saying it's not your take, you're just sharing information. I'm just responding to that perspective: it makes fairly little different to me if it's your perspective or not, because my reaction to it would be the same. Hopefully you aren't taking it personally.

They like Maxey too. But there are always levels to things.

In the same way that Khris Middleton is a great shooter, but Steph is an all time shooter, there are levels to intangibles too

[MichaelMcNamara]

I've said for a while give me Zion, BI and Josh Hart... the entire rest of the team can go.

I agree. I like Melli short term too. He has the right mentality. But yes, these three are correct. Now, imagine if you can add a 4th to that core that you get to have from his first day in the league and grow internally. Thats the goal tonight if they can make it happen.