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Thread: Truncated Offseason Thread

  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Hopefully we get better attendance when this COVID thing ends.
    Well now that no one can watch the game on TV, probably

  2. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Well now that no one can watch the game on TV, probably
    Mr. Wowowow hooked me up with a link.

  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Mr. Wowowow hooked me up with a link.
    Streams are plentiful, but Mom and Dad investors can't just click over to the game easily

  4. #904
    Rudy Gobert turned down Max offer and demanded a Super Max and cripple the long term future of the Jazz. Good. Give him the Super Max.

  5. #905
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    By 2025 we should be nba royalty. I promise that we will be deep in the playoffs and even beat the BUCKS ourselves. We will be champions.


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  6. #906
    This thread turning Minty status.Keep up good work .Almost to 40 pages.

  7. #907
    QUESTION

    Since the NBA Season is being pared down to 72 games from the regular 82 games, are the players' contracts similarly being pared down? I'm sure this had to be a point of negotiation prior to the decision to re-start.

  8. #908
    NBA investigating Clippers.

    https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/12/17...d-recruitment/


  9. #909
    Wondering what this mean?


  10. #910
    Five biggest contracts in NBA history

    1.Giannis Antetokounmpo- $228M
    2.Russell Westbrook-$207M
    3.Rudy Gobert- $205M
    4.Steph Curry- $201M
    5.Anthony Davis- $190M
    5.Klay Thompson- $190M


    Overpaid, but what else Utah can do....

  11. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Five biggest contracts in NBA history

    1.Giannis Antetokounmpo- $228M
    2.Russell Westbrook-$207M
    3.Rudy Gobert- $205M
    4.Steph Curry- $201M
    5.Anthony Davis- $190M
    5.Klay Thompson- $190M


    Overpaid, but what else Utah can do....
    You're right. It's what Hollinger terms the "Bird Rights Trap"

    For reference https://theathletic.com/2213522/2020...d-rights-trap/
    Last edited by AusPel; 12-20-2020 at 01:50 PM.

  12. #912
    It's a really bad contract, whichever way you slice it.

    Seth Partnow (ex-analytics head for the Bucks) argued on Twitter that saying that contracts will look bad on their tail end is a fair thing to say but that in doing so, you have to weigh it up against the odds that a player helps you truly compete in the short term. If you think that keeping Gobert now increases your championship equity by a large enough amount, you basically just swallow the year or two of negative value at the end of the deal in exchange for the ring now. This is a reasonable way of looking at things.

    The problem with it is that Utah is not on that title contention borderline, where you deal with bad cap later and go all-in now. They're at least a few pieces away, and giving Gobert that money at this point basically turns your cap sheet into dust for the foreseeable future. They've probably, imo, just trapped themselves in ''good but not gonna win anything'' territory for the next handful of years. Which has a value of its own, of course, being a really solid team has an appeal even if the ceiling is limited, but Utah and its fans have to be honest with themselves about that being what they've done.
    Basketball.

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    It's a really bad contract, whichever way you slice it.

    Seth Partnow (ex-analytics head for the Bucks) argued on Twitter that saying that contracts will look bad on their tail end is a fair thing to say but that in doing so, you have to weigh it up against the odds that a player helps you truly compete in the short term. If you think that keeping Gobert now increases your championship equity by a large enough amount, you basically just swallow the year or two of negative value at the end of the deal in exchange for the ring now. This is a reasonable way of looking at things.

    The problem with it is that Utah is not on that title contention borderline, where you deal with bad cap later and go all-in now. They're at least a few pieces away, and giving Gobert that money at this point basically turns your cap sheet into dust for the foreseeable future. They've probably, imo, just trapped themselves in ''good but not gonna win anything'' territory for the next handful of years. Which has a value of its own, of course, being a really solid team has an appeal even if the ceiling is limited, but Utah and its fans have to be honest with themselves about that being what they've done.
    What's the worst part about it though? The years?

    A bit of an overpay with a Bird Rights guy for an over the cap team - you can't really use that salary elsewhere other than your exceptions

    That's why I like the Adams' contract. Was on the high end of what he's worth, but we're only on the hook for 2 extra years. It's not an albatross at all

    Especially when Ingram and Zion are controlled for another 5-6 years
    Last edited by AusPel; 12-20-2020 at 02:55 PM.

  14. #914
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    What's the worst part about it though? The years?

    A bit of an overpay with a Bird Rights guy for an over the cap team - you can't really use that salary elsewhere other than your exceptions

    That's why I like the Adams' contract. Was on the high end of what he's worth, but we're only on the hook for 2 extra years. It's not an albatross at all

    Especially when Ingram and Zion are controlled for another 5-6 years
    Yeah, the years probably. It's 5 years, and Gobert is 28 already: in the final year of this deal, he'll be 33 years old, which isn't ancient but for a guy who has a very limited skillset which is predominantly reliant on screening (which is hard on the body) and at-rim contests, there's a bit of concern about it.

    Obviously he's an elite defender and he gives your team an immediately solid defense in the vast majority of circumstances, and he's an elite play finisher at the rim, but he's not a great passer, has very little offensive versatility as a finisher or shooter, etc. Do you pay one of the 5 largest contracts in NBA history to a guy who is so brutally limited on offense? A discussion worth having, of course.

  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Yeah, the years probably. It's 5 years, and Gobert is 28 already: in the final year of this deal, he'll be 33 years old, which isn't ancient but for a guy who has a very limited skillset which is predominantly reliant on screening (which is hard on the body) and at-rim contests, there's a bit of concern about it.

    Obviously he's an elite defender and he gives your team an immediately solid defense in the vast majority of circumstances, and he's an elite play finisher at the rim, but he's not a great passer, has very little offensive versatility as a finisher or shooter, etc. Do you pay one of the 5 largest contracts in NBA history to a guy who is so brutally limited on offense? A discussion worth having, of course.
    These huge contracts will come thick and fast though as we progress

    I'm not a huge Gobert fan myself, but I think he does track extremely well with advanced stats.

    It's the same value contract as Wall, Westbrook and Paul essentially at 40mil per, and he's way more durable than those guys
    Last edited by AusPel; 12-20-2020 at 03:26 PM.

  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    These huge contracts will come thick and fast though as we progress

    I'm not a huge Gobert fan myself, but I think he does track extremely well with advanced stats.

    It's the same value contract as Wall, Westbrook and Paul essentially at 40mil per, and he's way more durable than those guys
    He does track extremely well with advanced stats, but you have to argue over whether or not he's one of the two or three best players in the NBA, because that's the value of this deal. The answer is absolutely not, not even close, and it's absurd to pretend otherwise. His deal is bigger than AD's, for example, and he's a clearly inferior player to AD.

    The fact that you compare it to Wall and Westbrook, two of what are widely considered to be the worst contracts in all of basketball, is kind of the point. Yeah he's more durable than them (at least, so far) but he's also a big man which is inherently a less valuable position in today's NBA, with essentially zero offensive game of his own: everything he does on offense is the product of other people making him opportunities as a scorer, or being the beneficiary of his screening. And screening is great and valuable, but I don't think anyone is arguing it's worth $40m.

  17. #917
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    He does track extremely well with advanced stats, but you have to argue over whether or not he's one of the two or three best players in the NBA, because that's the value of this deal. The answer is absolutely not, not even close, and it's absurd to pretend otherwise. His deal is bigger than AD's, for example, and he's a clearly inferior player to AD.

    The fact that you compare it to Wall and Westbrook, two of what are widely considered to be the worst contracts in all of basketball, is kind of the point. Yeah he's more durable than them (at least, so far) but he's also a big man which is inherently a less valuable position in today's NBA, with essentially zero offensive game of his own: everything he does on offense is the product of other people making him opportunities as a scorer, or being the beneficiary of his screening. And screening is great and valuable, but I don't think anyone is arguing it's worth $40m.
    As a thought experiment, project Gobert onto the Pelicans as 1 of the best 2 players on the team. What contract does Griffin give him?

    Kuzma just got 3/40mil!

  18. #918
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    As a thought experiment, project Gobert onto the Pelicans as 1 of the best 2 players on the team. What contract does Griffin give him?

    Kuzma just got 3/40mil!
    No idea, I presume one equally large.

    There's a whole reason you posted the Hollinger thing. Hollinger wasn't saying ''you've gotta just give people massive contracts and then never discuss them critically''. I'm not saying I don't understand why Utah did it. I'm saying that in the long run it will cap their chances at a ring. Which it will. That's why it's a trap.

  19. #919
    New Orleans Pelicans waived Rawle Alkins, Ike Anigbogu, Tony Carr, Jarrod Uthoff and Justin Wright-Foreman. https://www.nba.com/stats/transactions/

    Center Will Magnay and foward Naji Marshall are two-Way Contract.

    Naji Marshall:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T40D_013pE

    Will Magnay:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIZIWJW8tpg

    C. S. Adams/J. Hayes/W. Hernangomez/Will Magnay
    PF. Z. Williamson/N. Melli/W. Gabriel
    SF. B. Ingram/J. Hart/S. Thornwell/Naji Marshall
    SG. E. Bledsoe/JJ Redick
    PG. L. Ball/N. Alexander-Walker/K. Lewis
    "The greatest threat to the domination is the equality."

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    No idea, I presume one equally large.

    There's a whole reason you posted the Hollinger thing. Hollinger wasn't saying ''you've gotta just give people massive contracts and then never discuss them critically''. I'm not saying I don't understand why Utah did it. I'm saying that in the long run it will cap their chances at a ring. Which it will. That's why it's a trap.
    I don't think anyone really knows what Utah thinks of their core. Utah just isn't an aggressive organization. They play conservative a lot in their FO decisions and value continued success over championship.

  21. #921
    In the last few days several interesting players was waived: Hollis-Jefferson, Gerald Green, Justin Anderson, Frank Mason, Y. Ferrell, Kaminsky, T. Zeller, Vonleh, Kidd-Gilchrist, Hezonja, Chiozza, Jerian Grant, C. Lee, Treveon Graham, Labissiere, J. Bell, Zhaire Smith and Guduric.

    Which ones sign with another NBA team? Which ones are already heading to Europe or to G-League?



    https://www.nba.com/stats/transactions/

  22. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Overt View Post
    In the last few days several interesting players was waived: Hollis-Jefferson, Gerald Green, Justin Anderson, Frank Mason, Y. Ferrell, Kaminsky, T. Zeller, Vonleh, Kidd-Gilchrist, Hezonja, Chiozza, Jerian Grant, C. Lee, Treveon Graham, Labissiere, J. Bell, Zhaire Smith and Guduric.

    Which ones sign with another NBA team? Which ones are already heading to Europe or to G-League?



    https://www.nba.com/stats/transactions/
    If we had the money, I wouldn't mind picking up MKG to back up BI at the 3 if his health would not be a deal-breaker.

  23. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    If we had the money, I wouldn't mind picking up MKG to back up BI at the 3 if his health would not be a deal-breaker.
    Hollis-Jefferson just got waived again

    I don't think we have any un-guaranteed contracts, but Hernangomez is complete trash.

    HJ would provide way more value

  24. #924
    You can go over the tax for now, with a plan on dumping Hernangomez once he becomes trade eligible. Give a team some cash or a 2nd and they would take him

    I would actually sign Andre Roberson. Guy is great character, and hungry to get back. Was a tremendous defender pre-injury. Put him with Vinson and see if he can become even an average shooter. He would be the guy I would take a chance on
    @mcnamara247

  25. #925
    Can we just sign Jan Vesely to have his super cute missus around the traps

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