Jrue Watch Thread

[Pelicanidae]

The New Orleans Pelicans are openly discussing star Jrue Holiday in trade talks and several contending teams are pursuing, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) November 4, 2020

Any time I hear something like team x is "openly shopping" a player, I think sabotage from another team. There is no benefit for it to leak you are trying to trade a player. Someone is trying to muddy the waters.

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) November 4, 2020

Might not end up meaning anything but just putting it out there. Now there's a space for all the Jrue rumours.

Personally I tend to agree with Shamit here: even if Jrue has turned down an extension, there's no reason for the Pels to leak that. Feels like it's coming from elsewhere, which means it could be just stirring the pot. Still, worth keeping an eye on.

[Pelicanidae]

Just as a personal note, my preference for if Jrue was asking out would probably be a deal with the Heat, regarding Herro as the primary return piece and working from there.

[HornetGuru]

Jrue to the warriors for Wiggins and the #2 pick.

[HornetGuru]

Just as a personal note, my preference for if Jrue was asking out would probably be a deal with the Heat, regarding Herro as the primary return piece and working from there.

Don’t think the heat would trade Herro for Jrue

[Pelicanidae]

Jrue to the warriors for Wiggins and the #2 pick.

Lmao god no

[Pelicanidae]

Don’t think the heat would trade Herro for Jrue

Weird, given how Jrue is a much better player than Herro right now and probably will be for at least the next year or two, which is precisely the Heat's window of contention for a championship.

[PaKwAn]

Im asking for minny's 2021 pick as well if i have to take on that wiggins contract....

[HornetGuru]

Weird, given how Jrue is a much better player than Herro right now and probably will be for at least the next year or two, which is precisely the Heat's window of contention for a championship.

I would be happy to do it because Herro spaces the floor for Ingram and Zion and doesn’t need the ball in his hands to affect the offense, I just don’t think they do it.

[Pelicanidae]

Im asking for minny's 2021 pick as well if i have to take on that wiggins contract....

If you trade Jrue for Wiggins you are giving up so much from a player in return for so little of value that you better be getting back a *ton* of other stuff. Just a metric ton. Wiggins is legitimately just a bad player, and their the #2 pick is worth so little in this class that it's absurd: all a top 3 pick does in 2020 is give you the right to overpay for a player that would be the #5 pick any other year.

It's just horrendous value.

[bojan]

If you trade Jrue for Wiggins you are giving up so much from a player in return for so little of value that you better be getting back a *ton* of other stuff. Just a metric ton. Wiggins is legitimately just a bad player, and their the #2 pick is worth so little in this class that it's absurd: all a top 3 pick does in 2020 is give you the right to overpay for a player that would be the #5 pick any other year.

It's just horrendous value.

I have a proposed trade for Jrue to the contender (the Nets) in other thread which gives us much better value without taking bad contracts.

[Pelicanidae]

I would be happy to do it because Herro spaces the floor for Ingram and Zion and doesn?t need the ball in his hands to affect the offense, I just don?t think they do it.

The problem the Heat had, which ultimately caused them to fall apart in the finals, is that with Dragic's injuries and age being what they are, they essentially had nobody who could initiate offense outside of Jimmy and that caused them a world of problems. Combine that with the fact that, again, outside of Jimmy they had nobody who could reliably get into the paint and put the ball in the basket, they were fairly one dimensional and easy to defend.

Jrue fixes those problems for them. They still have shooting without Herro, because Duncan Robinson still exists and they have cap to maneuver, but Jrue gives them someone who can do some halfcourt offense control and who can create their own shot off the dribble and get to the rim. He's also a clear defensive upgrade. What you lose in shooting with Herro going elsewhere, you gain in defense, playmaking, and paint-pressure. If you're a team that legitimately thinks that you're going to be a contender again next year and you're just looking to beef up the auxiliaries, Jrue is a clear upgrade over Herro.

[HornetGuru]

If you trade Jrue for Wiggins you are giving up so much from a player in return for so little of value that you better be getting back a *ton* of other stuff. Just a metric ton. Wiggins is legitimately just a bad player, and their the #2 pick is worth so little in this class that it's absurd: all a top 3 pick does in 2020 is give you the right to overpay for a player that would be the #5 pick any other year.

It's just horrendous value.

My problem with this line of thinking is that just because you believe this draft is terrible maybe some teams don’t. People fall all the time like Manu, Akashi, etc... I get your logic just not sure if I agree with it. If SVG believes this is the move I’ll go with his player evaluation over yours.

[HornetGuru]

The problem the Heat had, which ultimately caused them to fall apart in the finals, is that with Dragic's injuries and age being what they are, they essentially had nobody who could initiate offense outside of Jimmy and that caused them a world of problems. Combine that with the fact that, again, outside of Jimmy they had nobody who could reliably get into the paint and put the ball in the basket, they were fairly one dimensional and easy to defend.

Jrue fixes those problems for them. They still have shooting without Herro, because Duncan Robinson still exists and they have cap to maneuver, but Jrue gives them someone who can do some halfcourt offense control and who can create their own shot off the dribble and get to the rim. He's also a clear defensive upgrade. What you lose in shooting with Herro going elsewhere, you gain in defense, playmaking, and paint-pressure. If you're a team that legitimately thinks that you're going to be a contender again next year and you're just looking to beef up the auxiliaries, Jrue is a clear upgrade over Herro.

Maybe, the heat have a bigger window than what I believe you are saying, Jimmy isn’t close to being done and their 3 others studs are only going to get better. They should focus on trading future assets and expiring pieces to improve, not their world class rookie. If I’m the heats im not trading a player who will be a start for the next 10 years for a player who has about 2 good years left

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think the Heat's best offer would be something like:

Duncan Robinson, #20, Olynyk, and a sign and trade of Derrick Jones or Crowder to make salaries work. Maybe they will throw in a far out pick in 2025 or 2026 too.

But I think thats the best you can do from Miami. And I dont hate that deal. Depends on what Robinson is gonna get from his next deal. Also depends on if I can move 13 and 20 to go get Hayes or Haliburton or Okongwu.

But I dont think Herro is happening

[As I See It]

CHICAGO DEAL IDEA:

Markkanen, Lavine and # 4 for Holiday and next year's LA pick.

Turn the # 4 into Avdija or Hayes

Then perhaps we could fall back with our own 13 and pick up Poku in the 20's.

[Pelicanidae]

Maybe, the heat have a bigger window than what I believe you are saying, Jimmy isn’t close to being done and their 3 others studs are only going to get better. They should focus on trading future assets and expiring pieces to improve, not their world class rookie. If I’m the heats im not trading a player who will be a start for the next 10 years for a player who has about 2 good years left

Teams regularly trade promising young talent for proven certified high calibre real impact vets when they're trying to win rings. It's not unusual or strange.

Say what you like about Herro, and he does have real promise, but right now he's a very very poor defender, a mediocre decision maker, and has strides to make as a playmaker. He's still young, he has time to make those strides, but unless you think he's making them next year, Jrue is going to be better in those respects for another 2 seasons at least. If you think acquiring Jrue gives you legitimate chances at a ring next year and the year after, you trade Herro for that. Cause Herro might not be able to make that kind of impact for a while now, and you're betting on the probability that he'll ever make it all the way at all, which is far from a guarantee.

[Pelicanidae]

I think the Heat's best offer would be something like:

Duncan Robinson, #20, Olynyk, and a sign and trade of Derrick Jones or Crowder to make salaries work. Maybe they will throw in a far out pick in 2025 or 2026 too.

But I think thats the best you can do from Miami. And I dont hate that deal. Depends on what Robinson is gonna get from his next deal. Also depends on if I can move 13 and 20 to go get Hayes or Haliburton or Okongwu.

But I dont think Herro is happening

It also depends what other offers are on the table. If there are indeed ''several contending teams'' in serious pursuit, then teams have to up their ante. Depending on what else is being put forward, you can simply say to Miami ''no Herro, no deal''.

[Darkhorse985]

I don?t think the Heat trade Herro for Jrue either, so I wouldn?t want anything else from them.

I think the most realistic destinations are in this order:

1. Brooklyn (LaVert, Allen, Musa)

2. Indiana (Turner, 1st, and filler like Lamb or Doug McDermott)

3. Denver ( MPJ, Harris, and a 1st this year)

4. Golden State (Really would only want a 3 team deal where a team like the Thunder would absorb Wiggins) Warriors get Jrue Holiday, Thunder get Wiggins, Lonzo Ball, and Minnesota’s 2021 pick, and Pelicans get Chris Paul and #2 pick this year.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I don?t think the Heat trade Herro for Jrue either, so I wouldn?t want anything else from them.

I think the most realistic destinations are in this order:

1. Brooklyn (LaVert, Allen, Musa)
2. Indiana (Turner, 1st, and filler like Lamb or Doug McDermott)
3. Golden State (Really would only want a 3 team deal where a team like the Thunder would absorb Wiggins, maybe we get the #2 pick and OKC gets Minnesota?s 2021 pick)

Indy wouldnt get Jrue. If they are part of the trade, its as a 3rd team. They are going to try to get younger on the perimeter this offseason. Brooklyn makes sense, but again, I need a 3rd team.

Again -- the goal with Jrue should be to bring in low usage players so that Ingram and Zion can raise their usage and start to get their reps as ball handlers and creators. Trading for Levert kills the point of trading Jrue. Same with Wiggins. Low usage, low usage, low usage

[PELICANSFAN]

Indy wouldnt get Jrue. If they are part of the trade, its as a 3rd team. They are going to try to get younger on the perimeter this offseason. Brooklyn makes sense, but again, I need a 3rd team.

Again -- the goal with Jrue should be to bring in low usage players so that Ingram and Zion can raise their usage and start to get their reps as ball handlers and creators. Trading for Levert kills the point of trading Jrue. Same with Wiggins. Low usage, low usage, low usage

Do you think these "rumors" of openly discussing Jrue in trade offers are legit or more just the Pels listening to those who call (i.e. do you think anything has changed from the Pels perspective)?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Do you think these "rumors" of openly discussing Jrue in trade offers are legit or more just the Pels listening to those who call (i.e. do you think anything has changed from the Pels perspective)?

No -- they were 'listening' in January. Now, they are engaging. I would be surprised if he wasnt dealt this offseason.

They obviously talked to his agent about the next contract and when they realized what it would cost them and how that would limit them, they finally made the logical decision to start to engage in these talks more actively

[KevinDavis1022]

It's gonna suck to lose Jrue. At the same time, I want him to get the respect that is long overdue for him
I hope Griffin, Langdon, and Jrue's agent are working together on this to get him somewhere he wants to be.

[As I See It]

Ira Winderman: Have addressed this before as a very good fit for the Heat. And, yes, even if it would possibly mean putting Herro in play. Heat are in a seize-the-moment moment. 19 mins ago – via Twitter ShamsCharania

[AusPel]

Just as a personal note, my preference for if Jrue was asking out would probably be a deal with the Heat, regarding Herro as the primary return piece and working from there.

Heh, I suggested the same thing on RealGM during the ECF, just before he exploded for that 37 point game

Proposal: Jrue to the Heat for a package centred around Herro

Might have been incorrect about the salaries matching aspect tho (sorry Mac)

[Pelicanidae]

Indy wouldnt get Jrue. If they are part of the trade, its as a 3rd team. They are going to try to get younger on the perimeter this offseason. Brooklyn makes sense, but again, I need a 3rd team.

Again -- the goal with Jrue should be to bring in low usage players so that Ingram and Zion can raise their usage and start to get their reps as ball handlers and creators. Trading for Levert kills the point of trading Jrue. Same with Wiggins. Low usage, low usage, low usage

I agree to a fairly large extent.

If the centrepiece of your trade is someone who has no impact other than what they do with the ball in their hands, then I'm not interested. Similarly, if the centrepiece of your trade has no auxiliary skills, I'm not interested.

If we're trading Jrue then we're accepting that this is slightly more 'rebuild' than 'rework'. That's fine, but it means your priorities have to be different: on-ball reps for Zion need to be the absolute priority over anyone else on the team. So you don't bring back some Zach Lavine type who demands tons of touches and creation opportunities because they're not good enough to justify the opportunity-cost of taking those touches away from Zion.

Therefore you want players who can play off the ball, off Zion and then off Ingram as the secondary creator, and make an impact that way. Shooting, defense, secondary creation, play-finishing: these are all the priority over high usage shot-jacking.

It is worth saying though, that you shouldn't completely discount self-creation at all. No use having one or two guys on the team who can make something happen and then having everyone else be stagnant: it would be nice if people could at least attack close-outs or play a tertiary creation role.