No thanks to a retread

[UNO Gracias]

A lot of people will say that they want to hire a retread coach (Lue, Kidd, D’Antoni, Atkinson, Del Harris, etc.), but don’t do it. Just. Don’t.Do. It.

It’s not worth hoping that an old system will fit with a new team unless that system is the triangle, or whatever Doc Rivers runs.

Please read.

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/t...-head-coaches/

What we see overall is that it doesn’t make much of a difference whether you hire an experienced NBA head coach experienced with experience, or a nobody from nowhere who’s never coached nobody to nothing. In fact, the evidence points to hiring a first-timer as the better long-term move.

[Taker597]

There has been no successful retread coach hiring to come back from a firing and won a chip in like ever... Most have their winning percentage settle in the losing column.

I do would like Kenny as an assistant.

[Coreyinthe504]

Yeah a retread would be a tough sell to this fan base who was ready to fire gentry years ago.

I'd prefer a college coach or becky hamon, some one fresh.

[bradael]

There has been no successful retread coach hiring to come back from a firing and won a chip in like ever... Most have their winning percentage settle in the losing column.

I do would like Kenny as an assistant.

Rick Carlisle?

[Taker597]

Rick Carlisle?

Rick was fired after two back to back 50 win season in Detroit. His contract wasn't renewed in Indiana. Rick is more like the exception. He had a lot of deep playoff runs too.

Him winning a chip was more about catching lightning in a bottle. After that championship... He's next 4 playoff appearance has been 1st round exits

[Pelicanidae]

Rick was fired after two back to back 50 win season in Detroit. His contract wasn't renewed in Indiana. Rick is more like the exception. He had a lot of deep playoff runs too.

Him winning a chip was more about catching lightning in a bottle. After that championship... He's next 4 playoff appearance has been 1st round exits

Worth noting though that Carlisle hasn't exactly been gifted with too much young talent for a while. Obviously you mention the chip being lightning in a bottle, and that's true to some extent, but before Luka showed up the Mavs had very little work with outside of an aging Dirk. The 1st round exits, therefore, don't mean too much for me.

Carlisle is a very talented coach, definitely top 8 coach in the NBA.

[Taker597]

Worth noting though that Carlisle hasn't exactly been gifted with too much young talent for a while. Obviously you mention the chip being lightning in a bottle, and that's true to some extent, but before Luka showed up the Mavs had very little work with outside of an aging Dirk. The 1st round exits, therefore, don't mean too much for me.

Carlisle is a very talented coach, definitely top 8 coach in the NBA.

Who dismantle that championship squad overnight anyway? They where still good enough to get to the playoffs 4 times after the chip. It actually may of hurt them in the long run to never get a consistent rebuild going.

Didn't the Dallas Rondo trade torpedo a great team aswell?

What got Rick fired wasn't his coaching ability. He was a just difficult person for management to work with year around. It's funny how he gets along with Mark Cuban so well..

Rick is a really interesting story

[PELICANSFAN]

Carlisle's coaching success should not be discounted. Actually someone could argue any type of hire is bad as there have been disasters consistently at all levels. I would lean towards an assistant like say Ham.

[UNO Gracias]

Carlisle, Doc, and Phil are the only retreads to win it all. Is there a Doc, Carlisle, or Phil on the market? If not, spin again.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Carlisle, Doc, and Phil are the only retreads to win it all. Is there a Doc, Carlisle, or Phil on the market? If not, spin again.

I cant stand this argument. Not that I fault you for making it, but the fact that it is such a narrative in all sports.

Again, take any path and the successes are the outliers. The vast, vast, vast majority of all paths (retread, first timer from college, first timer from Assistant ranks, etc) fail. And you know who "succeeds" -- the ones who go to the good situations

Steve Kerr goes to the Knicks that year and he is in the 'first timer from FO' failure box. But instead, he goes to the Warriors and now that is chalked up as a success for that pathway.

Same guy, same pathway but he chose X job over Y and he was a success. Its not the path. Not even really the guy most of the time. Its the situation

[Nola3]

Bud, Vogel, McMillan, Malone, and Monty are all "retreads" who are currently succeeding. Like Mac said, it's all situation dependent and eliminating candidates with a broad brush like this would be ridiculous. I doubt Griffin looks at it like this though. Cast a wide net, find a bunch of good candidates, and see who would fit the best with this team and whatever staff they want to keep around.

[da ThRONe]

Coach Malone would qualify as a retread As well. I don't have an inherent problem with retread coaching just not for this team. I want a coach that focused on player development not wins and losses. Usually coaches that's been fired already make winning a priority.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Coach Malone would qualify as a retread As well. I don't have an inherent problem with retread coaching just not for this team. I want a coach that focused on player development not wins and losses. Usually coaches that's been fired already make winning a priority.

That is gonna come from above. The coach won't make that decision. And I don't get the logic that a retread can't be a player development coach. That is easily Atkinsons biggest strength and he is a "retread"

I think it's pointless to talk about the path. Ita about the person and their skill set, not whether they coached here before as opposed to there

[Pels4Life]

Coach Malone would qualify as a retread As well. I don't have an inherent problem with retread coaching just not for this team. I want a coach that focused on player development not wins and losses. Usually coaches that's been fired already make winning a priority.

I'd prefer a coach that is focused on wins and losses.

[da ThRONe]

That is gonna come from above. The coach won't make that decision. And I don't get the logic that a retread can't be a player development coach. That is easily Atkinsons biggest strength and he is a "retread"

I think it's pointless to talk about the path. Ita about the person and their skill set, not whether they coached here before as opposed to there

The coaches resume is less important than the skills we agree.

[UNO Gracias]

A lot of folks will say “you have to hire Ty Lue”, but those same folks can’t exactly say why you need to hire him? Is it because he won with Lebron, Kyrie, and Kevin Love? Ugh, cool. There isn’t much to get excited about with that hire. I mean, I guess if Zion is ever put on a minutes restriction you will see Ty wave off those restrictions and play him anyway? I mean, what do people see in him without Lebron? His success is completely tied to Lebron. He has shown no desire to develop talent (that’s what saw his time in Cleveland cut short). There isn’t enough there to get someone hard if you fed them a viagra and threw them into the strip club.

Atkinson struggles through his Nets time were mostly due to the Nets having a poor GM and they were still dealing from the Prokorov years (he was still dealing with that Kevin Garnett/Paul Pierce trade). His problem is while he has the love of the young players, his stars don’t want him. Even when the team was on the up and up, he couldn’t win over his stars with his decisions. So he is a good developer of talent that can’t get his star players on his side. That’s concerning if you think Zion and BI are going to be stars.

Jason Kidd, screw that guy.

Fizdale, D’Antoni, Marc Jackson, Van Gundey, sure maybe the 3rd and 4th time will finally be the charm (but most likely they won’t).

Do Lou or Kidd have a system? Atkinson, D’Antoni, Jackson, Van Gundey, Fizdale, have systems, they just aren’t going to get you over the top.

Of these guys I can see Atkinson having similar success to Doc Rivers (flame out with young talent, prove yourself with stars), but it’s still not very convincing.

I too want a guy with a system. Go and grab yourself a guy like Adrian Griffin, Darvin Ham, Chris Finch, Jerry Stackhouse, or Juwan Howard. Those guys have systems that coaches in the big seat lean on. Those guys also have the skins on the wall that players will respect. I would like to see one of those young bloods given a chance to shine, and those guys would most definitely get the fan base pumped.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Any person who says "you have to hire" any guy...is full of ********e.

The truth is that people dont even understand what the coach of the job is (for example...you seem to think it is installing a "system"). And beyond that, none of us has seen a minute of them doing what the real job is. So, anybody who has a hard core opinion and a candidate that they swear by --- then you know to totally disregard whatever they say.

[SunshinePumper]

I’m all in for Adrian Griffin

[Taker597]

Aslong it isn't old friends like David Blatt, Lue, or Kidd. I roll with any hire pretty much at this point.

[Pelicanidae]

I’m all in for Adrian Griffin

I would wait for his allegations to clear up before I start being all in, to be honest.

[SunshinePumper]

I would wait for his allegations to clear up before I start being all in, to be honest.

What is he accused of?

[Pelicanidae]

What is he accused of?

Domestic violence.

https://sports.yahoo.com/raptors-******...kip=1597620216

[sterlr]

Want Jacque Vaughn as next head coach. No more retreads.

[Blattman]

Want Jacque Vaughn as next head coach. No more retreads.

The former Orlando Magic head coach ? Yeah I love the irony here.

Also given the history of the current head coach of each first seed (Vogel with Indy+Orlando and Bud with Atlanta) I can't see any valuable point against former head coach. I'm not saying that being a former HC should be the only suitable experience for the job but I don't see it as negative.

[Pelicanidae]

The former Orlando Magic head coach ? Yeah I love the irony here.

Also given the history of the current head coach of each first seed (Vogel with Indy+Orlando and Bud with Atlanta) I can't see any valuable point against former head coach. I'm not saying that being a former HC should be the only suitable experience for the job but I don't see it as negative.

I'm not firmly against it, it just depends on who. Obviously the great HC's are either already employed (Pop, Spoelstra, Nurse, etc) or they're retired (all the great coaches pre 2000 except Pop basically). So the guys who are unemployed right now have active histories that we can investigate and evaluate, and that's what we need to do.

Two prominent names who keep coming up, for example, are Ty Lue and Jason Kidd. We can investigate both, and it becomes clear that Kidd is absolutely a no-go, whereas Lue might have something going for him. It's debatable.

I agree it's unfair to just dismiss someone based on their experience as a HC, but I also think it's fair to say that there isn't a plethora of top tier coach Free Agents right now just sitting around, at least not that I know of.