What's the take on Lonzo Ball

[MichaelMcNamara]

Is it possible to trade him the OKC for Chris Paul? Does Paul’s contract even work with our current cap situation?

I doubt they want him. Best case would be Ball to 3rd team and 3rd team sending assets to OKC.

But CP3's salary is just too big. You'd have to move Ball plus Redick plus other stuff. Or Ball plus Jrue.

My pipe dream is that some team is about to give FVV 20-23 mil a year and Toronto doesnt want to match that because they wanna save space for Giannis. So then Griffin slides in and says, "Hey do a sign and trade with us. Get Lonzo back instead of nothing. You have him for a year and if you need the cap room for Giannis, dont offer him the QO. Or, maybe he takes off for you guys and now he is a long term piece. Better than getting nothing."

And thats how we get Van Vleet. A dream? Maybe....but I wouldnt say it is absolutely impossible.

[Silverfoxx]

Is it possible to trade him the OKC for Chris Paul? Does Paul’s contract even work with our current cap situation?

I doubt they want him. Best case would be Ball to 3rd team and 3rd team sending assets to OKC.

But CP3's salary is just too big. You'd have to move Ball plus Redick plus other stuff. Or Ball plus Jrue.

My pipe dream is that some team is about to give FVV 20-23 mil a year and Toronto doesnt want to match that because they wanna save space for Giannis. So then Griffin slides in and says, "Hey do a sign and trade with us. Get Lonzo back instead of nothing. You have him for a year and if you need the cap room for Giannis, dont offer him the QO. Or, maybe he takes off for you guys and now he is a long term piece. Better than getting nothing."

And thats how we get Van Vleet. A dream? Maybe....but I wouldnt say it is absolutely impossible.

Why are you so high on FVV? I'll be honest I haven't watched much of Toronto but FVV is a undersized combo guard which we will play him at the 1 correct?

[MichaelMcNamara]

You notice how our guys have prototypical size and a defined "position" and all that stuff but no heart?

I am high on FVV because he does have heart. Give me more of those and less #2 picks who have had the world handed to them so they don't have to work for everything they get

[Freyfamilyreuni]

It seemed like Zo was working pretty hard to improve his shot. The constant repetition from workouts and shooting were definitely starting to pay off. Then the pandemic hit and he lost his time with the shooting coaches and he lost his time with supervised workouts.

Someone posted some youtube video of him working out with a home gym set up. Ironically that could have caused more harm than good. If you start changing up your lifting regime that can throw off all of the muscle memory dynamics of you shooting form. Couple that with taking him out of his regular routine and the results were Zo losing complete confidence in his shot.

Zo's not a natural shooter and he never will be. You can overcome that with a lot of repetition as long as the repetition is reinforcing good habits and not bad habits. I think the Pels did that prior to the pandemic. Hopefully he'll stay around the Pel's practice facility in the off season and hopefully he wil be allowed around his shooting and strength and conditioning coaches.

Now Zo's other limitations may not be so fixable. I think Zo is a smart guy. And I think he has really good basketball instincts. But he has a definite tendency to lose confidence especially during big games. You could see his head hang down on some of his misses both from the 3 and his missed layups. And then he starts to press. Hoepfully increasing maturity and some time away from his father can fix some of those issues. But they may not be fixable.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Making shots or not making shots should not define a player. That comes and goes. Everyone will have cold streaks and hot streaks

Yes, Lonzo was making a good amount of catch and shoot 3s during the stretch before Covid. But he still couldn't finish in the lane. Still made horrible, unforced turnovers and still was a below average initiator in the half court for a guard

But yes, a good amount of open catch and shoot 3s were going in and his raw numbers were looking good. Thats why I hate going by stats. The stats said he was improving drastically but my eyes told me some shots were going in that might have been two inches short a month before

[kinglio21093]

Y'all tryna anger Zion more? He's already frustrated with the load management. Now you wanna move the guy who he has the most chemistry with?

Lonzo showed significant improvement before the lockdown. He sucked in the bubble, but I mean TJ Warren turned into Michael Jordan in the bubble. It's weird circumstances. Gotta give him more time. We're still rebuilding whether we want to like it or not.

[AD23forMVP]

Another thing about Lonzo, regardless of how many flashy passes he makes, or how many open spot up 3’s he makes, he still has zero ability as the ball handler in the PnR. I would love another guard who could run the PnR with Zion and really force teams to choose.

[AusPel]

If we're moving on from Lonzo, we need to trade him. Not let walk

[Pelicanidae]

Y'all tryna anger Zion more? He's already frustrated with the load management. Now you wanna move the guy who he has the most chemistry with?

Lonzo showed significant improvement before the lockdown. He sucked in the bubble, but I mean TJ Warren turned into Michael Jordan in the bubble. It's weird circumstances. Gotta give him more time. We're still rebuilding whether we want to like it or not.

Lonzo sucked before the bubble too.

I am begging people who think that Lonzo was having a really strong year to go back and either rewatch earlier games or at least look at the stats.

Prior to his 15 game hot streak to close the season, he was pretty much as bad as he had ever been in LA.

[AusPel]

Lonzo sucked before the bubble too.

I am begging people who think that Lonzo was having a really strong year to go back and either rewatch earlier games or at least look at the stats.

Prior to his 15 game hot streak to close the season, he was pretty much as bad as he had ever been in LA.

At least we don't have Dell "optimism bias" Demps still at the helm

[PELICANSFAN]

Lonzo sucked before the bubble too.

I am begging people who think that Lonzo was having a really strong year to go back and either rewatch earlier games or at least look at the stats.

Prior to his 15 game hot streak to close the season, he was pretty much as bad as he had ever been in LA.

He was not terrible. He started off slow, but was coming off of a bad foot injury. He got much better as the season progressed.

[AusPel]

Well you can't really sell Ball this off season coming off the bubble performance. Will be just before the trade deadline next season or keep him

[PELICANSFAN]

Well you can't really sell Ball this off season coming off the bubble performance. Will be just before the trade deadline next season or keep him

Agree. Cannot sell low.

[As I See It]

He was not terrible. He started off slow, but was coming off of a bad foot injury. He got much better as the season progressed.

Please tell me...

What current NBA starting point guard is # 2 better than in your eyes?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Agree. Cannot sell low.

Selling isn't just about what you get in return. It's also about opening up opportunities for others.

I watched Dell not wanting to sell low on Gordon for almost 5 years and it was a huge mistake. As a result, Gordon took up cap space that could have gone to others. We wouldn't have had to dump Lopez in the Reke trade for instance. And that made us give up a pick for Asik and that led to etc etc etc

Trading a guy is not just about what you get in return, it's also about all the other opportunities you open up

[PELICANSFAN]

Selling isn't just about what you get in return. It's also about opening up opportunities for others.

I watched Dell not wanting to sell low on Gordon for almost 5 years and it was a huge mistake. As a result, Gordon took up cap space that could have gone to others. We wouldn't have had to dump Lopez in the Reke trade for instance. And that made us give up a pick for Asik and that led to etc etc etc

Trading a guy is not just about what you get in return, it's also about all the other opportunities you open up

At that point there was probably no market for Gordon coming off of injury. He had not really played much with the Hornets by then. I would not dump Ball for scraps just to let him go. If the organization does not think he is part of the future, they should shop him and see what the market is. If they are not satisfied with the return, then they have to decide if it is worth it to wait it out to the deadline. They have to make a decision on Jrue as well. That is likely to be a tougher decision.

[6warddude]

Lonzo sucked before the bubble too.

I am begging people who think that Lonzo was having a really strong year to go back and either rewatch earlier games or at least look at the stats.

Prior to his 15 game hot streak to close the season, he was pretty much as bad as he had ever been in LA.

you have to put more into the eye test over all of the stats you post to prove your points.....lets be fair,,,all 3 of the lakers players improved their game from last season ........lonzo got better as the season went on and the eye test proved that if you look at his game as a whole from last season....

[Pelicanidae]

you have to put more into the eye test over all of the stats you post to prove your points.....lets be fair,,,all 3 of the lakers players improved their game from last season ........lonzo got better as the season went on and the eye test proved that if you look at his game as a whole from last season....

Please don't tell me to use the eye test.

I watched every single game. I started the vast majority of the game threads on this board over the llast 3 years. I watch the games, often multiple times.

You're obviously allowed to disagree with me, but if you're going to do so then please do it by making actual points rather than just saying ''use the eye test!'' as if I haven't watched precisely as much Lonzo Ball this year as anyone else.

Lonzo sucked until the final 15 games or so before the league shutdown. Then he had a really hot streak where he looked great: his driving picked up dramatically, a lot more of his shots were falling, and his passing was starting to break out more regularly. But that's all it was: about 15 games. The entire season leading up to that was dreadful and then when we came back from that layoff into the Bubble he was the worst he has ever been in his entire career up until this point.

If you want to sell me on Lonzo, you're free to do it, but it has to be on potential because the actual services rendered to this point are extremely low quality.

[luckyman]

Y'all tryna anger Zion more? He's already frustrated with the load management. Now you wanna move the guy who he has the most chemistry with?

Lonzo showed significant improvement before the lockdown. He sucked in the bubble, but I mean TJ Warren turned into Michael Jordan in the bubble. It's weird circumstances. Gotta give him more time. We're still rebuilding whether we want to like it or not.

Who says Zion has the most chemistry with Lonzo? You do know chemistry involves more that a couple lobs a game right?

They don't seem to have much chemistry on defense or for anything else.

[Taker597]

It seemed like Zo was working pretty hard to improve his shot. The constant repetition from workouts and shooting were definitely starting to pay off. Then the pandemic hit and he lost his time with the shooting coaches and he lost his time with supervised workouts.

Someone posted some youtube video of him working out with a home gym set up. Ironically that could have caused more harm than good. If you start changing up your lifting regime that can throw off all of the muscle memory dynamics of you shooting form. Couple that with taking him out of his regular routine and the results were Zo losing complete confidence in his shot.

Zo's not a natural shooter and he never will be. You can overcome that with a lot of repetition as long as the repetition is reinforcing good habits and not bad habits. I think the Pels did that prior to the pandemic. Hopefully he'll stay around the Pel's practice facility in the off season and hopefully he wil be allowed around his shooting and strength and conditioning coaches.

Now Zo's other limitations may not be so fixable. I think Zo is a smart guy. And I think he has really good basketball instincts. But he has a definite tendency to lose confidence especially during big games. You could see his head hang down on some of his misses both from the 3 and his missed layups. And then he starts to press. Hoepfully increasing maturity and some time away from his father can fix some of those issues. But they may not be fixable.

This is a good point here. Zo is a rhythm rep shooter. What ever he did in the offseason had a huge negative impact on his shooting. Need to get back in Pelicans HQ with Vinson to get it together.

Even then, he really need to stop worrying sooo much on that 3pt shoot and diversify his game. He needs a stronger lower core to push people off the line in the paint.

Tiny frames and legs do not win games.

[Taker597]

Please don't tell me to use the eye test.

I watched every single game. I started the vast majority of the game threads on this board over the llast 3 years. I watch the games, often multiple times.

You're obviously allowed to disagree with me, but if you're going to do so then please do it by making actual points rather than just saying ''use the eye test!'' as if I haven't watched precisely as much Lonzo Ball this year as anyone else.

Lonzo sucked until the final 15 games or so before the league shutdown. Then he had a really hot streak where he looked great: his driving picked up dramatically, a lot more of his shots were falling, and his passing was starting to break out more regularly. But that's all it was: about 15 games. The entire season leading up to that was dreadful and then when we came back from that layoff into the Bubble he was the worst he has ever been in his entire career up until this point.

If you want to sell me on Lonzo, you're free to do it, but it has to be on potential because the actual services rendered to this point are extremely low quality.

Quit making me having to defend a player I don't like.... Up untill those 15 games. The whole team was playing awful including Jrue. Lay off the dude a little bit. It's sad to say, be he improved.

I'm not asking you to cut him some slack, but we got one year left.. Just roll with it.

[Pelicanidae]

Quit making me having to defend a player I don't like.... Up untill those 15 games. The whole team was playing awful including Jrue. Lay off the dude a little bit. It's sad to say, be he improved.

I'm not asking you to cut him some slack, but we got one year left.. Just roll with it.

We got one year left. At which point we either have to pay him what will probably be upwards of $15m a year, or we lose him for nothing..

Trade him now.

[PELICANSFAN]

We got one year left. At which point we either have to pay him what will probably be upwards of $15m a year, or we lose him for nothing..

Trade him now.

I'll leave that decision to Griffin. He has to decide if Ball is part of the future or not. Salary is certainly going to be an issue.

[pelafanatic]

We got one year left. At which point we either have to pay him what will probably be upwards of $15m a year, or we lose him for nothing..

Trade him now.

Brandon Ingram makes this decision so much easier for Griffin, if he decides that Lonzo isn't a fit. Normally, after trading a superstar like AD, a FO would feel tied to the pieces they received in return. They need to show that they received something tangible in return.

In this case, BI has already made an all star team at the age of 22, more than likely an MIP award, and a well deserved max extension coming. That would normally be enough of a return on its own for a superstar. To add insult to injury for Zo, though, the Pels also Hart, Hayes, NAW, and Didi (before factoring in future Lakers pieces).

We could lose Lonzo for nothing, and that trade would still be viewed as a successful one, relatively speaking. Griffin doesn't need to hang onto Lonzo out of some mandate from ownership in order to fill a few seats (Eric Gordon).

I think Zo will have more of a market than some on her do. So many offenses in today's NBA are run through bigs and wings that there will be teams that can more easily overlook Lonzo's deficiencies, and focus more on his shooting improvements and defensive potential. There's also other struggling teams that desperately need an influx in talent as well as a player that may draw fans, and we know Lonzo can do that.

A major dark horse but Mike Conley is a guy I'd take a super long look at if I were Griff and knew that the Jazz were ready to bail on the idea of Conley and Spida as a fit. That would be a great fit for Lonzo on a team with already well defined roles, and Conley would bring some consistency to the Pels back court. The Jazz are going to have to extend Mitchell as well as make a decision on Gobert, so Conley may no longer fit their short term plans. I'm not positive on this, but I think the Pels would be able to take Conley into space before extending BI.

I do think I'd need a little extra incentive to take that contract off of Utah's books, however.

[As I See It]

We got one year left. At which point we either have to pay him what will probably be upwards of $15m a year, or we lose him for nothing..

Trade him now.

Yep. Maximize 'THE TRADE' and cut your loses.

Already we have:

1. BI (an All Star)
2. Hart (a solid sixth man)
3. JAX (Rookie with enormous potential)
4. NAW (Rookie who shows flashes)
5. DiDi - a piece of him (We'll see)
6. # 2 (We saw)

....as a result

I find promise in 4 of those players and I'm anxious to see what DiDi is all about.