Fire Lonzo too? We going to have nothing left
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Fire Lonzo too? We going to have nothing left
This organisation should be planning to be consistent playoff participants within the next few years, and be making deep playoff runs within 5 years. So that's the timescale we're working on. If there's a ton of roster turnover now, in year one, that's fine as long as it's done with an eye on the future rather than panic rotation. So yeah get rid of Lonzo, cause if you can't imagine him being on this team in 5 years when we're in the WCF, then he doesn't have a spot.Originally Posted by 13 - 3
Basketball.
With the assets they possess. They can use their assets to trade for good player with the cap space. To say the cap space isn’t valuable is silly.
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Which is fine. Stay flexible. But we aren't about to sign Giannis or Devin Booker when they become UFAs is all I'm saying.
Use him to lure Booker?
Sure, but that rarely happens. It's way more common to accumulate mid-tier salaries to trade for a star than to make salaries expire all at the same time to create cap space to trade for someone outright. Trading into cap space is really rare and effectively only happens in sign-and-trades, and those players are effectively free agents. Think about all the trades of stars the past several years---who was the last non-free agent high level player who was traded into cap space? Even then, there is usually a medium off-setting salary which is sent back to help create more of the space (i.e. Josh Richardson in the Jimmy Butler sign and trade, Terry Rozier in the Kemba Walker trade, etc.)
The type of guy who tends to get traded purely into cap space is the guy a team is giving away or actively trying to get off of, which really worked out well this year for some teams but are rarely considered stars or great players at the time they are traded: TJ Warren (bubble MVP, but the Suns paid to get off his salary), Davis Bertans, Aron Baynes, Mo Harkless, etc.
Exactly. It is disingenuous to compare those contracts, some signed many years ago, to someone signing an extension now.
Lonzo Ball is basically Rajon Rondo minus the trash talk and playoff experience.
I beg to differ. Rondo is a field general, a leader, a warrior. He has skins on the wall that # 2 could only dream of having. Rondo gets everything out of what he's got while # 2 just balls.
Rondo posted very similar stats to Ball over his first 3 years and most of his career. Rondo benefited from playing with super stars throughout his career. He is nothing without them. Ball could develop the same role with Williamson and Ingram with time and competent coaching.
Three year sample suggest there is no way. He's the same inconsistent player he was in LaLaLand. If he wasn't drafted as a lottery pick, he would be overseas by now.
If Rondo, didn’t have Pierce, KG, and Allen, you could have said the same thing 3 years in. People complained tremendously about Rondo when that team was broken up. Rondo is not even a 3rd option offensively, same as Ball. Both can shred the field with passes when they are on. Field generals who are inconsistent shooters/scorers.
Numbers don't lie. Rondo is no Chris Paul offensively...but he's no # 2 either. Rondo is a better facilitator (check his assists), better shooter (check the percentages) and a better winner (check his record). Meanwhile # 2 is simply #2.
You are comparing a 15 year career to a 3 year career. Look at the first 3 years and the stats are very similar. Fat/injury-prone rookie Zion, year 1 of Ingram as an all-star, and hot/more often cold Jrue Holiday are no Pierce, KG, and Allen in their primes.
Rondo is actually a best case scenario for Lonzo, in some ways.
Which is wild because Rondo is one of the most overrated players in recent NBA history who had a legacy essentially giftwrapped for him by playing with numerous all-time-great players and still doesn't look that great when you take his entire career into account. He's now been bad more years than he was good, and continues to harm teams that he's on. Hasn't been a positive for years and years at this point.
There's a reason the term ''rondo assist'' made its way into the popular lexicon, and it's not cause Rondo is so great.
Exactly, but Rondo has had a 15 year career because he can facilitate for great players. That is what Ball is best at. We have 2 pillars already in Zion and Ingram. We need our Ray Allen to replace Jrue Holiday. Bradley Beal for Jrue and 2 1st rounders, then sign Ibaka?
PG: Ball/NAW
SG: Beal/Reddick
SF: Ingram/Hart/Didi
PF: Zion/Melli
C: Ibaka/Hayes
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 08-10-2020 at 12:27 AM.
Yeah, Rondo is worthless...
NBA champion (2008)
4× NBA All-Star (2010–2013)
All-NBA Third Team (2012)
2× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2010, 2011)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2009, 2012)
3× NBA assists leader (2012, 2013, 2016)
NBA steals leader (2010)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2007
Me: ''one of the most overrated players in recent history''
You: *reads that as ''worthless'' somehow*
Edit: Just to clarify, what I mean is that Rondo is often spoken of as this like, guaranteed hall of fame PG who was one of the best PGs of his generation and one of the best ''true'' point guards of the last 20, 25 years, and it's just not true.
Even if you look at the resume you posted, it's surprising how little of it is actually that impressive. All-Rookie second team, for example, is one of those awards which is like okay nice but I'm not putting weight on it for anything. We already know that you can't trust Rondo's assist numbers; like I said, the term Rondo Assist exists for a reason. Famously it came to its worst in Sacramento where he led the lead in assists without really creating anything, just passing to scorers who had done the work themselves.
All star is largely a popularity contest and, while nice, is again not one of those awards I put too much weight on.
So you have a guy being called one of the best PGs of his generation, and his resume is: 1 ring from a team that he was maybe the 4th best player on, 1 all-nba third team selections, 4x all defense, 3 kind of iffy assists leader, and a steals leader.
Really? Is that worth all this hype? Not really. It's a good resume, sure, but it's hardly stellar. I'd take Marcus Smart over Rondo any day, and that's just looking at Celtics PGs.
Last edited by Pelicanidae; 08-10-2020 at 12:41 AM.
We need a consistent, gritty, and intelligent lead guard who spaces the floor, gets to/finishes at the rim, makes/draws free throws, takes care of the basketball, and plays hard on both ends of the court. How many of those things does Lonzo bring to the table?
"I'm not going to allow my putative owner to answer that question, this is an NBA related press conference. Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell have collectively sung their praises of Tom and if uh ESPN has a problem with that tell Mr. Skipper to call me at my office."
Would you keep Ball if money was spent elsewhere like trading Jrue for either Beal or CJ McCullum and signing a center like Ibaka who can play D and shoot a 3?
Some think it will happen next year (or before his next contact). Have faith. LOL
No. Lonzo is not going to be worth anything close to his next contract. Name power and draft status will ensure that. Besides, you build your roster to mitigate the weaknesses of your core players, not the other way around.
Exactly.
We have Zion. We have Ingram. We know that they are going to be pieces on this team for years to come, and will be higher usage players, who are hopefully high impact.
So when you're designing your team you say ''what do we need to maximise these guys?''.
You absolutely do not look at some actually-pretty-crap player and say ''well how do we shuffle our cards to make the team work for this dude?''
Might as well start trying to figure out how to build a team around Frank Jackson.
Let's make something clear... Lonzo and Rondo aren't comparable. Lonzo isn't in his shadow. Lonzo is nobody that lived off hype and stuck with bad coaches outside of Fred Vinson
Is it possible to trade him the OKC for Chris Paul? Does Paul’s contract even work with our current cap situation?
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