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Thread: Zion Conditioning Moving Forward

  1. #26
    Let’s discuss this at face value.

    The problem I have with modern day basketball discussions is that the game is evolving and has evolved quicker than the viewers ability to argue the game. It’s kinda obvious. So let’s post facts about the modern game:

    There are numerous 6-8/6-9+ players in the NBA who facilitate a team’s offense and lead their team in assist.
    There are smaller players who are pulling down 9-10+ rbs a game.

    These are truths about the modern game. What does this mean?

    Take the nonsense big man: PF Center / small guy: Pg SG SF labels off your expectations and view every player like 1 of 10 players on the court. That’s all it is now.

    Zion is a better rebounder than Lebron James! It took seasons for Bron to reach the current level Zion is at. Zion is 6-6 280whatever...lebron is 6-9 250whatever. Look at the game at face value.
    He shoots 58% from the field and the loose bolt to the “all his shots are at the rim” argument is he can get the volume of shots up at the level of guys who shoot 3s.

    Then look at all the different match ups Zion is faced in. In the 2 videos above, he’s guarding Fox and Beverly on an island without any help...forcing them into midrange fade-away or a very bad 3 (if he missed).

    Is rim protection Zions weakness? Sure...but what’s Kawhis rim protection statistics? That’s how you have to start viewing the game because that’s the modern game. Not this outdated 1990s lens where you could count on one hand Shaq being on an island with a point guard.

    Wake up, you’re missing greatness right now.

    I can’t be the only one who’s looking at this guy and saying he’s the best rookie I’ve ever seen am I? My God...he’s so dominant.

  2. #27
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdcreator View Post
    Would you trade Zion for Cade Cunningham? I love Zion but if this is what to expect then let’s get the farm while he has that value. I love Jrue but doubt he wants a rebuild again. We should be able to get something good. Zo could be moved as well for a little something. Bring in a young coach that can grow with this team like Boston did with Stevens. If Ingram does want to run this team then move him too. I thought this team had real potential but I’m seeing a team not able to mech together. Give me 15 josh Hart’s that hustle, play hard, and looks like he hates to lose.
    So basically trade away most of your young talent for a shot at more young talent? Absolutely ridiculous. I cannot believe how fans of this team jump on and off ship by the game. We complained about Demps trying to speed up rebuilds and now many want wholesale changes after a shortened season.

  3. #28
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowowowow View Post
    Let’s discuss this at face value.

    The problem I have with modern day basketball discussions is that the game is evolving and has evolved quicker than the viewers ability to argue the game. It’s kinda obvious. So let’s post facts about the modern game:

    There are numerous 6-8/6-9+ players in the NBA who facilitate a team’s offense and lead their team in assist.
    There are smaller players who are pulling down 9-10+ rbs a game.

    These are truths about the modern game. What does this mean?

    Take the nonsense big man: PF Center / small guy: Pg SG SF labels off your expectations and view every player like 1 of 10 players on the court. That’s all it is now.

    Zion is a better rebounder than Lebron James! It took seasons for Bron to reach the current level Zion is at. Zion is 6-6 280whatever...lebron is 6-9 250whatever. Look at the game at face value.
    He shoots 58% from the field and the loose bolt to the “all his shots are at the rim” argument is he can get the volume of shots up at the level of guys who shoot 3s.

    Then look at all the different match ups Zion is faced in. In the 2 videos above, he’s guarding Fox and Beverly on an island without any help...forcing them into midrange fade-away or a very bad 3 (if he missed).

    Is rim protection Zions weakness? Sure...but what’s Kawhis rim protection statistics? That’s how you have to start viewing the game because that’s the modern game. Not this outdated 1990s lens where you could count on one hand Shaq being on an island with a point guard.

    Wake up, you’re missing greatness right now.

    I can’t be the only one who’s looking at this guy and saying he’s the best rookie I’ve ever seen am I? My God...he’s so dominant.
    Agree, but it is easier to complain and try to be the first to have a negative comment that they can come back to in order to say "I told you so."

  4. #29
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    How big are you? Not being sarcastic, just wondering about your life experience. I’m not as big as Zion, but I hang around 250, give or take. A few summers ago I was doing a Keto diet and working out and dropped a bunch of weight. Then I badly turned my ankle playing pick up and was laid up for 3 weeks during which I did nothing and ate a lot of pizza, pasta and comfort food. I gained 17 pounds. Just saying if Zion was training hard and really watching his nutrition then went home for two weeks, sat around and ate whatever he wanted, a 15-20 pound weight gain is not out of the question, believe me...
    I have been heavier most of my life and I could never put on 17 pounds in 3 weeks. I do not think it was so much putting on weight (I am sure he may have put on some), but moreso losing conditioning such that the cardio is not there yet.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    So basically trade away most of your young talent for a shot at more young talent? Absolutely ridiculous. I cannot believe how fans of this team jump on and off ship by the game. We complained about Demps trying to speed up rebuilds and now many want wholesale changes after a shortened season.
    This is basically the point of my reply to this same comment. Not even considering trading Zion yet. We've barely gotten to see him, and we certainly haven't gotten to see him in full form. Let him play another full year at least before we even begin entertaining trade ideas. For all we know, he takes a Luka sized leap next year, gets his Duke defense back, and turns into a top 15 player as a sophomore. Imagine that happening just after you trade him.
    Basketball.

  6. #31
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    This is basically the point of my reply to this same comment. Not even considering trading Zion yet. We've barely gotten to see him, and we certainly haven't gotten to see him in full form. Let him play another full year at least before we even begin entertaining trade ideas. For all we know, he takes a Luka sized leap next year, gets his Duke defense back, and turns into a top 15 player as a sophomore. Imagine that happening just after you trade him.
    Watching him on defense makes me wonder what he is being told to do. He seems to be freelancing a bit as he was allowed to do at Duke. He is watching the ball looking to attack the passing lanes rather than working on fundamental defense. You can tell by some of the false steps he takes sometimes going towards the ball. Not sure if that is his idea or the coaches.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Watching him on defense makes me wonder what he is being told to do. He seems to be freelancing a bit as he was allowed to do at Duke. He is watching the ball looking to attack the passing lanes rather than working on fundamental defense. You can tell by some of the false steps he takes sometimes going towards the ball. Not sure if that is his idea or the coaches.
    I get the feeling that he's afraid of fouling, and a few other people have noted the same thing. There are a bunch of moments in almost every game where he almost goes for the rim contest, and visible pulls away, or almost digs in hard for a steal and hesitates, and I think it's a fear of getting into foul trouble. Or at least, that's one element of it.

    I also think he's trying not to do too much, which in the case of an instinctual defender can result in overthinking and second guessing what are actually pretty good natural decisions.

    Maybe because of the limited minutes thing he's being told to watch specifically for fouling, or maybe they're trying to use him conservatively on defense to push down his ''error'' rate, but either way I don't think it's actually useful for his style.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I get the feeling that he's afraid of fouling, and a few other people have noted the same thing. There are a bunch of moments in almost every game where he almost goes for the rim contest, and visible pulls away, or almost digs in hard for a steal and hesitates, and I think it's a fear of getting into foul trouble.
    If this is part of it, it makes zero sense. When has he ever been in foul trouble? He's had two games where he had 4 fouls in the pros, the rest 3 or less. He averaged 2 fouls a game in college. Even if he fouled at some crazy, Jaxson Hayes-like rate, he's not playing enough minutes to get in significant foul trouble.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    If this is part of it, it makes zero sense. When has he ever been in foul trouble? He's had two games where he had 4 fouls in the pros, the rest 3 or less. He averaged 2 fouls a game in college. Even if he fouled at some crazy, Jaxson Hayes-like rate, he's not playing enough minutes to get in significant foul trouble.
    I agree that it shouldn't matter, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't play a part. Watch Gentry yank Jrue early in the second in one of the recent games because he had 2 fouls, despite every investigation into foul rates telling you that 2 fouls never matter. Reality and what coaches/teams go with do not always align.

  10. #35
    If you give def win shares any amount of credit per game, I’ve read that Zion is the only Pelican right now positive of +.1 and since Gentry has been the coach, only he, Jrue, AD, and Solomon have been positive of +.1

    Defense in 2020 isn’t all about overt flailing of your arms or going after every steal. These guys are too good these days. It’s about discipline.

  11. #36
    Your not tripping. I think the team isn’t being strict on Z because he’s a teenager which I feel is illogical. I absolutely believe he can get a little leaner & cut with proper dieting which is a complete lifestyle change. Anybody downplaying not his weight but healthy weight is just being defensive for our guy. With that being said I don’t see it really being an issue in the long run, I’m confident in Z dedication to his career & can see him trimming up to be as explosive as he was in HS - College.

    His defense looks good & continues to trend up per game IMO... as a team, our defense is ******. I’ve seen Jrue make plenty of mistake this season, causing a ton of issues with switching. On ball is elite, communicating & awareness isnt there at times.

  12. #37
    Stupid insiders...

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    Stupid insiders...
    Must have been Griffin.

  14. #39
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Why am I doing this to myself? I watched his old near 40 minute Duke highlight and...

    This is a totally different human being.


  15. #40
    Well the good news is that the Pelicans have a plan in place and will begin once the offseason starts. They’re assigning someone from the staff to be with him for the duration. So it sounds like they know the issues we’ve been complaining about and already have a plan in place to get some weight off of him.

  16. #41
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarly View Post
    Well the good news is that the Pelicans have a plan in place and will begin once the offseason starts. They’re assigning someone from the staff to be with him for the duration. So it sounds like they know the issues we’ve been complaining about and already have a plan in place to get some weight off of him.
    Where'd you hear this?

  17. #42
    TNT broadcast during the game.

  18. #43
    With any luck, Zion can come back in his sophomore year in good shape, a year removed from his knee surgery, and just kill it. I have belief in him.

    That's all I'm gonna say.

  19. #44
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    Stefan Bondy
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    Reggie Miller on Zion Williamson: “He needs to lose 30 pounds. He’s way too heavy.”

  20. #45
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakthetruth View Post
    Stefan Bondy
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    Reggie Miller on Zion Williamson: “He needs to lose 30 pounds. He’s way too heavy.”
    Yeah, I do not think Miller likes Zion or does not like the attention he gets. He also said if he cannot play more than 25-28 minutes, "what's the use?" He also said earlier in the season that he had it on pretty good information that Zion would not play this season.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Yeah, I do not think Miller likes Zion or does not like the attention he gets. He also said if he cannot play more than 25-28 minutes, "what's the use?" He also said earlier in the season that he had it on pretty good information that Zion would not play this season.
    The information he reported came from Gentry so this isn’t speculation. But I do feel 20-25 pound would be great for his career in the long run. So he’s not far off imo.

  22. #47
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarly View Post
    The information he reported came from Gentry so this isn’t speculation. But I do feel 20-25 pound would be great for his career in the long run. So he’s not far off imo.
    The information did not come from Gentry. It was his opinion.

  23. #48
    His opinion is the amount of weight he wants Zion to lose but the rest came from him talking to Gentry about Williamson’s offseason plan.

  24. #49
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    [QUOTE=Pelicanidae;1530302]I get the feeling that he's afraid of fouling, and a few other people have noted the same thing. There are a bunch of moments in almost every game where he almost goes for the rim contest, and visible pulls away, or almost digs in hard for a steal and hesitates, and I think it's a fear of getting into foul trouble. Or at least, that's one element of it.

    it make sense to me because if you are playing 3-5mins then why play defense and get fouls and sit out almost the whole game....

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    The information did not come from Gentry. It was his opinion.
    Yep, absolutely. In fact, Griff came out to announce Zion definitely would be returning only days after Miller had talked about how he wasn't coming back on air.

    Miller is a nonsense merchant. Nobody should listen to him, at least not if they want real information.

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