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Thread: Fire Gentry ?? Then who?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    We don’t just take open spot up 3’s either. We take 3’s off the dribble and often throw up some wild shots. Whilst JJ is incredible at making crazy shots, he kind of highlights the problem. We don’t have good enough movement or presence in the paint to create open looks regardless of our talent at hitting 3’s. So why on Earth are we just jacking them up?
    It just makes no sense whatsoever. It's bad coaching, bad strategy, bad basketball.

    Everyone who is capable of doing basic mathematics knows that the best shot you can create is a wide open shot at the rim. For some reason, Gentry seems to prefer 25 footers.
    Tyrese Maxey/Isaac Okoro/Oscar Tshiebwe/Onyeka Okongwu/Nico Mannion endorser.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    It's weird, I've found myself occasionally hoping we don't win games. Because I feel like if we somehow manage to scrape out 38 wins or something, they'll use that relative success to keep Gentry, and I don't know how much more of him I can handle.

    Do you know how backwards that is? Just me watching games, seeing them get close, and feeling ''well it would suck if we won this cause Gentry would see it as vindicating his awful decisions tonight''.
    It’s a pain. We had the talent to keep this manageable until Zion got back. Gentry just let this get out of hand. Add to the fact he is freezing out our young guards when we are 8 games under 500 and I am not a happy panda. It is what it is. If we tank, I hope we do it the right way. I don’t want to see us play dumb dumb stop start iso midrange 3ball hell basketball.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Would Finch really be that bad? I think he got some HC interviews last year.
    It's not a matter of whether Finch would be good or not. We need a clean slate. The taint of the old regime still skinks up the place with Gentry and his coaches here. We need new blood from an internal and external perspective. The fans need to be sold on change and you don't get thst promoting an assistant even if Finch would be alright.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Would Finch really be that bad? I think he got some HC interviews last year.
    Why would you have confidence in Finch? Is he on vacation right now or is he also coaching up that crap we are witnessing?

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    It’s a pain. We had the talent to keep this manageable until Zion got back. Gentry just let this get out of hand. Add to the fact he is freezing out our young guards when we are 8 games under 500 and I am not a happy panda. It is what it is. If we tank, I hope we do it the right way. I don’t want to see us play dumb dumb stop start iso midrange 3ball hell basketball.
    The formula is simple.

    It's not really tanking because Gentry is trying to win, hes just terrible.

    So, lose all year long, get a top 7 pick. Trade Lonzo to another terrible team that will for some reason believe in him, get back like the 12th pick or something. Draft Tyrese Maxey or Nico Mannion with the top 7 pick, then draft Isaac Okoro with the 12th.

    Then fire Gentry and hire a Becky Hammon.

    ????

    Victory.

  6. #56
    It’s fair to ask why firing a coach might help solve a problem, but I don’t think it’s necessary to predetermine who you would hire to take his place. There are talented coaching prospects out there, but until you vett them and interview them and determine that they will help solve problems, no need to decide ahead of time.

    So what are the problems and what, if anything, do they have to do with Alvin Gentry as head coach? I can think of a few possibilities:

    1. He doesn’t have the team ready to play. This goes for the start of too many games and too many seasons;
    2. He doesn’t hold players accountable. You hear too many times that the team “didn’t play hard” or “ didn’t play for 48 minutes.”
    3. He doesn’t impose enough structure. Redick made an insightful observation early on that he’d never played on a team that “freelanced” so much on offense instead of running more set plays. It may be this causes particular problems at the end of games;
    4. He doesn’t command enough fear or respect from his players. It seems obvious players like Alvin personally. It’s less clear that they actually listen to him or follow his instructions;
    5. He doesn’t manage in-game situations well. From use of timeouts to roster minutes to adjusting to what the other team is doing quickly enough, it’s never been clear that Alvin is a skilled tactical coach.

    All these issues have in common that Gentry may just be too loose or laid back for this squad. If he had a more experienced bunch or more intense floor generals or guys with higher basketball IQs, like Chris Paul, or Curry or Rondo, then these issues might not be as big a factor. But the Pels are a quiet bunch without obvious leaders, and it shows—with the slow starts, with the late game collapses. Given that fact, you may need to opt for a coach with a harder edge, one that imposes more, who demands more and runs a tighter ship all the way around. I’m not saying you’ve got to go hire some Bobby Knight-type, but maybe more of an intense task master who will lead a young team and help instill toughness and discipline.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    It’s fair to ask why firing a coach might help solve a problem, but I don’t think it’s necessary to predetermine who you would hire to take his place. There are talented coaching prospects out there, but until you vett them and interview them and determine that they will help solve problems, no need to decide ahead of time.
    I do agree with this. My support of the Hammon idea is fairly strong, but it's not set in stone. If she's not interested, or if she is but she's clearly not ready during interview, or she's ready but just not for a young team, or whatever, then that's fine; pick someone else. The principle is just to make a clean slate change.

    I do have to disagree with you elsewhere though.

    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    4. He doesn’t command enough fear or respect from his players. It seems obvious players like Alvin personally. It’s less clear that they actually listen to him or follow his instructions
    I've never liked the idea of fear being in any way a part of leadership. Fear and respect are contrary things, in my view; I don't think you can truly respect someone if you fear them. If I was interviewing (and of course, I wouldn't be) for the head coach position and a prospective head coach talked about dominating or ''striking fear into'' the players, that would massively turn me off their candidacy. True leadership comes from respect, not fear, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    All these issues have in common that Gentry may just be too loose or laid back for this squad. If he had a more experienced bunch or more intense floor generals or guys with higher basketball IQs, like Chris Paul, or Curry or Rondo, then these issues might not be as big a factor. But the Pels are a quiet bunch without obvious leaders, and it shows—with the slow starts, with the late game collapses. Given that fact, you may need to opt for a coach with a harder edge, one that imposes more, who demands more and runs a tighter ship all the way around. I’m not saying you’ve got to go hire some Bobby Knight-type, but maybe more of an intense task master who will lead a young team and help instill toughness and discipline.
    My issues with this are pretty simple: we did have Rondo, and while we made the playoffs that year, it was nothing to do with regular season Rondo at all. In fact, we were worse with him on the court pretty much all year than with him off, and the only reason we made the playoffs is because AD finally decided to have a backbone for 3 months and go nuclear on the league.

    The reality of the situation is that we have a team filled with young players, and (I say this as a fairly young guy myself) most young people don't really click with the ''tough guy intense task master'' archetype. It's too try-hard, it comes off as either pretentious and pathetic or straight up unlikeable; we've seen what happens when a coach comes in and tries to be The Man with a young team recently with the Bulls. If you remember last year at around this time, when Boylen's tough, ''military'' inspired coaching style caused the players to hold players only meetings in which they discussed boycotting his Sunday practices, and even filing complaints with the NBA Player's Association.

    By comparison, if you look at some coaches who have done very well with young rosters in recent years, guys like Brad Stevens and Nick Nurse, how do they coach? Pretty much all accounts seem to say that they hold players accountable, sure, and they're not afraid to criticise their roster, but that it comes from a place of mutual respect rather than one of 'control'. I feel like that's the way forward in coaching. Less macho-man ''I'm the guy in charge!'' and less ''oh man, I just let the players do whatever they want'' and more of a dialogue built on the fact that the coach understands the game, the players do too, and they can work with each other.

  8. #58
    My two cents...How about these possible candidates?

    Tyronn Lue
    Ime Udoka
    David Blatt
    Jay Wright

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by PelDave View Post
    My two cents...How about these possible candidates?

    Tyronn Lue
    Ime Udoka
    David Blatt
    Jay Wright
    No retreads. We got to go with a coach that specializes in player development

  10. #60
    Bobby Hurley
    Because of Griff's Genius, Gayle Benson now owns a second NBA Franchise for the next seven years,

  11. #61
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    Actually, if we speak about current head coach assistants I can come up with only two names that I'd welcome as our next HC without reservations: Tyronn Lue and Becky Hammon. But we are in a very difficult situation: the pool of candidates is so shallow and the front office has no chance for mistake. I'm happy to be a fan who can voice his displeasure yet has no impact on this fateful decision

    I understand that it's not the proper time to fire Gentry and Zion will make our life more exciting, but I'm exasperated to a boiling point. Instead of starting to grow as a possible future dynasty immediately we are losing yet another season in vain because our coach has no clue what to do.

  12. #62
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Balakhonov View Post
    Actually, if we speak about current head coach assistants I can come up with only two names that I'd welcome as our next HC without reservations: Tyronn Lue and Becky Hammon. But we are in a very difficult situation: the pool of candidates is so shallow and the front office has no chance for mistake. I'm happy to be a fan who can voice his displeasure yet has no impact on this fateful decision

    I understand that it's not the proper time to fire Gentry and Zion will make our life more exciting, but I'm exasperated to a boiling point. Instead of starting to grow as a possible future dynasty immediately we are losing yet another season in vain because our coach has no clue what to do.
    Why do you say Becky Hammons "without reservations?" Maybe I just am not privy to what she has done to make her a sure fire head coaching candidate.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Why do you say Becky Hammons "without reservations?" Maybe I just am not privy to what she has done to make her a sure fire head coaching candidate.
    I like Becky, but hyped up coaching prospects tend to bust more often than not.

  14. #64
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    No retreads. We got to go with a coach that specializes in player development
    Here is a coach that comes from the Pop(Team USA) and Rick Carlisle coaching tree. Currently Carlisle’s defensive specialist and Mavs D-League coach. Also has coached Lebron with Cavs.

    https://www.mavs.com/team/coaches/jamahl-mosley/

    Prior to joining the Mavericks, Mosley spent four seasons as an assistant coach for the Cleveland Cavaliers from 2010-14. Before joining the Cavaliers in July 2010, Mosley spent five seasons with the Nuggets, the last three seasons as an assistant coach/player development. In that role, he assisted with developing the skills and fundamentals of Nuggets players. In his three seasons as an assistant coach, the Nuggets reached the playoffs each year, winning 50 games or more and reaching the playoffs each season, including winning the Northwest division twice and making a trip to the Western Conference Finals in 2009. Before joining the Denver bench, he spent two seasons with the Nuggets working in player development and advance scouting.
    Last edited by 13 - 3; 12-02-2019 at 03:33 PM.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Why do you say Becky Hammons "without reservations?" Maybe I just am not privy to what she has done to make her a sure fire head coaching candidate.
    I don't think there's any coaching candidate that I'd hire without reservations right now. The only guys who I would want to hire without any reservations at all are guys who have absolutely no chance of ever leaving their current team: Pop's not leaving San Antonio, Nick Nurse isn't leaving Toronto, etc.

    As far as gambles go, though, I do think Hammon has a solid resume. I watched her coach the Spurs Summer League team a few years ago and yes, it's Summer League, but she looked really good and the players really seemed to respond well to her and they played well too despite not being the best SL roster and ended up winning the Summer League that year. Obviously her days as a player are self-explanatory, so I won't go into that.

    I also put a fair amount of stock into what players say about coaches (At least the players that seem to have their heads screwed on properly, sorry Hassan Whiteside) and I remember that article Pau Gasol wrote where he said

    I’ve played with some of the best players of this generation … and I’ve played under two of the sharpest minds in the history of sports, in Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich. And I’m telling you: Becky Hammon can coach. I’m not saying she can coach pretty well. I’m not saying she can coach enough to get by. I’m not saying she can coach almost at the level of the NBA’s male coaches. I’m saying: Becky Hammon can coach NBA basketball. Period."
    Again, that doesn't mean without reservations, but it does mean that she's as much a ''candidate'' as pretty much anyone else who's on the market.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Why do you say Becky Hammons "without reservations?" Maybe I just am not privy to what she has done to make her a sure fire head coaching candidate.
    Actually there's nothing to add to the posts above answering your question. I respected her as a player and as a coach... well. Her 5-6 years in the Popovich system and the respect she commanded from the players within Spurs organization makes me feel ready to gamble with her. Among all the far-fetched ideas about our coaching job, Becky is the most interesting one.

    Still, I admit, that there are only 10-12 assistant coaches I can name that are currently employed in the NBA, so my knowledge in this area is obviously limited.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Thatís why she hired Griffin. I hope she let's him do his job.
    I haven't been impressed with Griffin before coming here and I haven't been impressed since the hire, but he needs to be given full authority to do what he thinks is best.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I haven't been impressed with Griffin before coming here and I haven't been impressed since the hire, but he needs to be given full authority to do what he thinks is best.
    Langdon is a championship caliber move, imo. Best GM you could find.
    Last edited by Taker597; 12-02-2019 at 08:43 PM.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Why would you have confidence in Finch? Is he on vacation right now or is he also coaching up that crap we are witnessing?
    It depends. Does he mainly call the offensive plays and if so, does Gentry sign off on it or override him? Also, is Finch capable of coming up with decent rotations? We don’t know because he’s never been a head coach in the NBA to the best of my knowledge. All I know is that he’s been a head coach overseas and has done pretty well in Europe along with a successful stint in the D-League.
    Last edited by DaFranchise80; 12-02-2019 at 09:45 PM.

  20. #70
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    I’ll say it again JAMAHL MOSLEY has an impressive resume that includes player development and defense!

    https://www.mavs.com/team/coaches/jamahl-mosley/

  21. #71
    I would move Gentry before I traded a player. We have great talent on this roster, we just have a below mediocre head coach (that’s not debatable).
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    I would move Gentry before I traded a player. We have great talent on this roster, we just have a below mediocre head coach (that’s not debatable).
    My exact thoughts. I just want to see these guys play with some type of guidance, especially to close out games.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Langdon is a championship caliber move, imo. Best GM you could find.
    That's the only thing move I've wildly applauded. Except for drafting Zion which was a no brainer.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I haven't been impressed with Griffin before coming here and I haven't been impressed since the hire, but he needs to be given full authority to do what he thinks is best.
    Outside of keeping Gentry and maybe how they handled Zion's injury news what exactly hasn't been impressive with Griffin while he's been here? The absolute haul he got for AD, the draft, bringing in Nelson, revamping our entire athletic building, hiring Langdon, actually pushing forward with our G League team, being a public face of the team while addressing the media and public without running away.

    I'd say Griffin has smashed it out of the park.

  25. #75
    I often wonder if Alvin’s likability works against him. You’re players have to respect you. It’s quite frequent that we hear “My players don’t do what I ask them to do” or “We couldn’t maintain it for the full 48” spiel. Sure, he has obvious flaws in game management, but I’m not sure there isn’t a deeper issue.

    Also, I think the biggest problem I have with Alvin is that he is an old fart. The guy has been around forever. If he hasn’t corrected his mistakes by now, he never will. I could excuse a young coach for some of their struggles, but Alvin doesn’t have that excuse. Surely this will be his last opportunity as HC of the Pelicans.

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