NBA DRAFT 2020 DISCUSSION

[Pelicanidae]

Really great, detailed write up of 15 first rounders

https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...g_list_of_the/

Funnily enough, no Pat Will

This is not a terrible write up. There's some very important stuff that I think is left off, as well as some fairly glaring inaccuracies here and there, but overall it's not too bad.

Just an example of each, so that you can consider it -

Something overlooked: Vassell's write up doesn't mention his playmaking flashes, which are extremely promising and very important for whenever we're talking about his ceiling. If you have the ability to be a legitimately plus wing passer rather than just an auxiliary one, that boosts your value quite considerably. It also doesn't mention that he was a pretty good off-the-dribble shooter, which again, is vital for talking about his upside: catch and shoot guys are fairly common, the ability to hit off the pull-up amplifies value again. Not mentioning either of these things when you're trying to justify a top 5 pick is kind of odd.

A glaring inaccuracy: Wiseman does not have a developing face-up game, really. He showed a lot of it pre-college and it was really bad almost all the time, with poor shooting and a turnover prone 'handle', and then at the college level he didn't really get a chance to show it off much. He hasn't really shown any of the major indicators that would imply there's real material to work with here, other than the willingness to do it. In fact, what is more encouraging than the face-up game is the fact that at college he didn't do it as much, which may imply that he's willing to play within a role more as the level of competition ticks up.

Then there's stuff like him basically just saying that his judgement on Killian Hayes is almost entirely based off highlights, which is kind of absurd. It leads to him saying stuff like ''he's not a great shooter'' which is kind of an issue: Hayes was a very good shooting prospect who showed basically everything other than raw 3pt% that you'd want, and his pull-up game, again, projects well. Secondly, and this is just a pet peeve, I hate when people bang on about prospects only having a left hand. Why? Because they never do it the other way around. Nobody ever says ''oh man, this guy only has a right hand, they can't finish at all with the left'', but it's very common for people to say the reverse: I think it's just because left handedness is more unusual so it sticks out more to them. In any case, it's not a major concern anymore than right-hand dominance is, which is to say, it's not a big issue.

I also think his analyses of Nesmith, Okoro, and Josh Green are pretty shambolic.

Okay so maybe I have more problems with it than I thought initially.

[AusPel]

Haha ok

[JimmieZ]

I know that the Pelicans run a tight ship but dang are we meeting with any players? Are there any sites for some incite?

[Eman5805]

Here's a nice guide. https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Having options to display for cursory knowledge for prospects or a deeper dive was inspired. Not sure if I've ever seen something like that. But now I'll be judging everyone who follows for not going that extra step.

[Snarly]

I know that the Pelicans run a tight ship but dang are we meeting with any players? Are there any sites for some incite?

Haha, that?s a good thing. I?ll never forget the time Demps was overheard at a restaurant telling someone he was going to take Rivers if Lillard was off the board. It was pretty nutty.

[Eman5805]

Haha, that?s a good thing. I?ll never forget the time Demps was overheard at a restaurant telling someone he was going to take Rivers if Lillard was off the board. It was pretty nutty.

Crazy. Always felt Demps was kind of shrewd. Maybe he gets chatty when food is involved? I know I am.

[luckyman]

Crazy. Always felt Demps was kind of shrewd. Maybe he gets chatty when food is involved? I know I am.

It's an unsubstantiated rumor. But rumor or no rumor, most folks knew this team would go after Rivers because it desperately needed another shot creator at that time.

[Pelicanidae]

Here's a nice guide. https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Having options to display for cursory knowledge for prospects or a deeper dive was inspired. Not sure if I've ever seen something like that. But now I'll be judging everyone who follows for not going that extra step.

It's not perfect, but if you compare it with something like ESPN's new atrocity, you can see how much more nuanced the Ringer version is, which is quite funny because the Ringer usually sucks. Here's the ESPN thing, for comparison: https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...am-first-round

This is awful for so many reasons but the obvious biggest issue is that while the use of the comparison bars that show 'current' and 'potential' ability are quite pretty and visually intuitive, they're also massively reductive and entirely arbitrary. LaMelo Ball apparently a 75/100 as a shooter right now. That's 7.5/10, basically: is he that good as a shooter? No, not at all.

Similarly, James Wiseman currently has a 94 Rim Protection, with his 'potential' listed at 100. So he has the potential to be the perfect rim protector, just flawless, nobody could possibly be better? That's such an absurd claim with zero content to it: similarly, the idea that he's currently in the elite upper echelon of rim protection at 9.4/10 is nonsense talk.

Meanwhile they have someone like Okoro, who is definitely a player with real concerns to discuss, listed as basically the same quality of passer and shot creator as Aaron Nesmith, which is something that you could only say if you have literally never watched either player for more than about 3 minutes.

ESPN just making a mess, as usual.

[HornetGuru]

Heard the Pels just worked out Nesmith

[luckyman]

Heard the Pels just worked out Nesmith

You mean you read it? lol

Also like what that piece has to say about Saddiq Bey. Pretty much what all of us S Bey fans been saying.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans...650625e3f.html

[HornetGuru]

You mean you read it? lol

Also like what that piece has to say about Saddiq Bey. Pretty much what all of us S Bey fans been saying.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans...650625e3f.html

Yes, wasn’t trying to act like I know a guy or anything lol

[pelafanatic]

I think I'm all in on Pat Williams next to BI and Zion, and for the first time in years I think we have a coach that will put the rookie in the best position to succeed.

I think we should basically ignore the time in Detroit. I know he did a poor job of developing Stanley Johnson, but I don't think there was really much there to develop in the first place. If you look back at him time in Orlando from 2007-2012, he developed JJ, Marcin Gortat, Courtney Lee, and Ryno. Additionally, he got the most out of guys like Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, and Jameer Nelson. These obviously aren't the most flashy names on the market, but the point is, for the most part, he maximized their talent.

We've never had a coach who is able to maximize the talent on the roster by developing his scheme to fit the players. SVG will do that. Pat Williams is so good at so many different things while not needing the ball to succeed. I couldn't think of a better fit for an SVG led team.

[MichaelMcNamara]

If you wanna play Devil's Advocate -- SVG got a similarly raw kid with a similar body in Stanley Johnson and that didnt go well.

But again, I dont think the Head Coach "develops" anybody. Some fans give them the credit for some reason, but that is not the head coaches focus. They give them opportunities and hopefully put them in the proper position to succeed. But they dont help much with the actual development aspect

[pelafanatic]

If you wanna play Devil's Advocate -- SVG got a similarly raw kid with a similar body in Stanley Johnson and that didnt go well.

But again, I dont think the Head Coach "develops" anybody. Some fans give them the credit for some reason, but that is not the head coaches focus. They give them opportunities and hopefully put them in the proper position to succeed. But they dont help much with the actual development aspect

Yea this was my point, and I don't think I did a great job of developing my thought.

Basically I trust SVG to put Pat Williams in a position to succeed. One of the most frustrating parts of the 2019 season for me was the minutes and lineups for Jax and NAW, and I don't really think NAW had much of a chance at all. I think that may have been Gentry's biggest flaw as a coach. His vision for NAW was as a primary ball-handler; and when that clearly didn't work, Gentry wasn't able to zag.

[pelafanatic]

If you wanna play Devil's Advocate -- SVG got a similarly raw kid with a similar body in Stanley Johnson and that didnt go well.

I also think Stanley was all power. His athleticism never really translated because he was sooo behind mentally, and he just had no offensive game to speak of if he could't over power his opponent. I think Pat has a completely different game. But I get that side of the argument and know you're just trying to present both sides.

[luckyman]

Yea this was my point, and I don't think I did a great job of developing my thought.

Basically I trust SVG to put Pat Williams in a position to succeed. One of the most frustrating parts of the 2019 season for me was the minutes and lineups for Jax and NAW, and I don't really think NAW had much of a chance at all. I think that may have been Gentry's biggest flaw as a coach. His vision for NAW was as a primary ball-handler; and when that clearly didn't work, Gentry wasn't able to zag.

Perhaps NAW just wasn't ready for any role last year. He was a rookie.

[Pelicanidae]

Perhaps NAW just wasn't ready for any role last year. He was a rookie.

Sure, but if that's the case you don't help anything by having him playing like 7 minutes a week. Just send him to the G League.

[tdcreator]

I think the only sure thing is Vassell. Everyone else I see could fail in some aspect or another. I don't see what everyone else does about Haliburton or Avdija. I just don't see the upside of either one. Could they be good role players? I think maybe but I wouldn't be shooting for good when I can grab a guy that could be better.

[pelafanatic]

Sure, but if that's the case you don't help anything by having him playing like 7 minutes a week. Just send him to the G League.

Yep. Seven minutes next to Frank Jackson and Etwaun is doing way more harm than good for a young guy trying to find his footing

[As I See It]

Sure, but if that's the case you don't help anything by having him playing like 7 minutes a week. Just send him to the G League.

There was a time when......

[UNO Gracias]

I would like for us to draft Tyrese Haliburton, but more because his dad is a ref, and his cousin is Eddie Jones.

[Pelicanidae]

Kentucky guard Tyrese Maxey says he's worked out in person for the Pelicans.

— Christian Clark (@cclark3000) November 12, 2020

[pelafanatic]

Kentucky guard Tyrese Maxey says he's worked out in person for the Pelicans.

— Christian Clark (@cclark3000) November 12, 2020

An upside wing at 6 and Maxey at 13 would be super exiting

[JJackisangry]

The dreamer in me hopes that Atlanta trades us that number 6 pick for Jrue and we end up with Okongwu and Patrick Williams at 13 (or later if we trade back). I don’t think it’s realistic, but that is the combination of players that I’d want. That would be big man and combo forward sorted for the foreseeable future.

[PELICANSFAN]

The dreamer in me hopes that Atlanta trades us that number 6 pick for Jrue and we end up with Okongwu and Patrick Williams at 13 (or later if we trade back). I don’t think it’s realistic, but that is the combination of players that I’d want. That would be big man and combo forward sorted for the foreseeable future.

Williams is not likely to make it to 13.