NBA DRAFT 2020 DISCUSSION

[Pelicanidae]

While I hope it turns out that way, I would say the book is still open. Zion was a no-brainer. Hayes, NAW and Didi are still pretty much unknowns who hopefully develop into solid players.

Well, maybe I should rephrase: our draft last year was roughly in line with what I would have done, so I'm seeing an alignment between my thinking and theirs. It could easily just be an artifact of one year lucking out.

I wanted us to trade down from 4 for value: we did that. I had Hayes as my favourite C prospect (assuming Clarke as a PF, which he is) and picked him pre-draft for us over Goga Bitadze, and that's what we ended up with. I had NAW somewhere in that 17-25 range, and we ended up taking him in that range.

Hadn't heard of Didi, so I can't claim any credit for that.

So I'm just fingers crossed that if I'm seeing someone as a really bad value play at 13, so is Langdon's team. Maybe I'm wrong.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Well, maybe I should rephrase: our draft last year was roughly in line with what I would have done, so I'm seeing an alignment between my thinking and theirs. It could easily just be an artifact of one year lucking out.

I wanted us to trade down from 4 for value: we did that. I had Hayes as my favourite C prospect (assuming Clarke as a PF, which he is) and picked him pre-draft for us over Goga Bitadze, and that's what we ended up with. I had NAW somewhere in that 17-25 range, and we ended up taking him in that range.

Hadn't heard of Didi, so I can't claim any credit for that.

So I'm just fingers crossed that if I'm seeing someone as a really bad value play at 13, so is Langdon's team. Maybe I'm wrong.

So, out of curiosity, why would you take Hayes at 8? I am not going with 20/20 vision, but just in general -- why would you take a big man at 8? One who cant yet do any of the things that would make a big unique. Yes, maybe he will one day have a 3pt shot. Maybe one day he will be able to handle a bit and pass. But he hadnt shown any of that so far, and a pure 5 is a mercenary position IMO, unless you find a truly unique one.

When it comes to pure 5's, the only ones that stick with the teams who draft them are the insanely unique ones (Embiid, KAT, Jokic, Bam), with the lone exception being Steven Adams with OKC. And the odds of Hayes being a unique, All Star caliber, one seems very very low. So, why take him - or any non special 5 for that matter, in the top 10?

[AusPel]

Where would Hayes go in this draft?

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think he would go in the same range -- between 5 and 15. But I dont understand why. I never understand why a center is taken unless they are clearly a top tier type. When Okafor went 3rd the year after the Warriors showed Centers were dying, I was befuttled.

Now, if the guy is simply listed as "center" but can defend multiple positions and/or has skills like a guard (shooting, passing, handling), then sure...take a shot. But Hayes is clearly a pure center and while he might one day develop some above average for his position perimeter skills, he certainly did not show that in college.

I think Hayes will eventually become a solid rotation player for some other team - much like many of the rotation centers in the league.

[AusPel]

I think he would go in the same range -- between 5 and 15. But I dont understand why. I never understand why a center is taken unless they are clearly a top tier type. When Okafor went 3rd the year after the Warriors showed Centers were dying, I was befuttled.

Now, if the guy is simply listed as "center" but can defend multiple positions and/or has skills like a guard (shooting, passing, handling), then sure...take a shot. But Hayes is clearly a pure center and while he might one day develop some above average for his position perimeter skills, he certainly did not show that in college.

I think Hayes will eventually become a solid rotation player for some other team - much like many of the rotation centers in the league.

Maybe that's why he was taken at 8 - trade bait. Teams will love his upside and he will be coveted

[MichaelMcNamara]

Maybe that's why he was taken at 8 - trade bait. Teams will love his upside and he will be coveted

The second you take a guy and drive him off the lot, his value goes down.

The 8th pick was more valuable before the Pelicans selected anyone than Hayes is currently. They couldnt get the 8th pick for him this year - in an arguably weaker draft. And this is another reason you dont draft one position players -- because you will have less bidders if you do want to trade a one position player. Not many teams would give up a valuable asset for even a solid center, let alone one who has shown little to nothing.

I never understood that pick and I never will. But here's hoping he can be of some value for us before he inevitably moves on. History says there is almost zero chance he will be on the Pels in 5 years. Only question is whether we get something of value in return for him

[Pelicanidae]

So, out of curiosity, why would you take Hayes at 8? I am not going with 20/20 vision, but just in general -- why would you take a big man at 8? One who cant yet do any of the things that would make a big unique. Yes, maybe he will one day have a 3pt shot. Maybe one day he will be able to handle a bit and pass. But he hadnt shown any of that so far, and a pure 5 is a mercenary position IMO, unless you find a truly unique one.

When it comes to pure 5's, the only ones that stick with the teams who draft them are the insanely unique ones (Embiid, KAT, Jokic, Bam), with the lone exception being Steven Adams with OKC. And the odds of Hayes being a unique, All Star caliber, one seems very very low. So, why take him - or any non special 5 for that matter, in the top 10?

I think Hayes has outlier movement skills that make him worth a lot more potentially than most other big prospects. He's basically 7'0 with a plus wingspan that moves like a wing, and if you think there's any chance to develop him as a shooter and even low level ball handler that's probably a higher end outcome than someone like Rui Hachimura is ever going to reach, for example.

I agree that a pure 5 is a mercenary position unless you find a truly unique one, but I have the feeling that Jax's upside is fairly rare. Perhaps not truly singular, but when you're picking outside of the top 5 most truly singular propositions are taken. There are arguments for other players, but I think that Jax where he went is an entirely defensible pick for an upside play, especially since it comes with a fairly safe floor rather than being entirely all or nothing. Obviously how you evaluate that is somewhat subjective; do you care if there's any floor at all on your upside play? Some would say no, and I'm not really going to argue with them too much.

[tdcreator]

I think Hayes could be AD lite with some growth and aggressive coaching. I think even centers have become a 3 & D position as well unless your a special player like AD.

[HornetGuru]

Hayes will be in the top 1% of athletes for his position, name another center that can dunk from the free throw line. Not to mention he shoots a great free throw, and can run, which is what this team wants. I love Hayes. But yes I understand people wanting more multi positional players around Zion

[Pelicanidae]

Hayes will be in the top 1% of athletes for his position, name another center that can dunk from the free throw line. Not to mention he shoots a great free throw, and can run, which is what this team wants. I love Hayes. But yes I understand people wanting more multi positional players around Zion

Absolutely. If you consider Hayes to be the kind of player who will never shoot even a decent midrange, and will only ever be able to defend strict 5s, and doesn't have any passing upside, then yes you don't want Hayes on this team because if that's the case then he's basically DeAndre Jordan at best, and that's not a great fit with Zion.

On the other hand, if you think Hayes has the ability to integrate at least reasonable big man shooting in time, and be able to do some multi-positional defense (even if only late switches on 4s and larger 3s) then his value skyrockets alongside Zion. That increases if he becomes a solid passer (which I think he will, he showed flashes of that this year).

If you assume his maximum ceiling, which is that he becomes a good shooter, combined with this athleticism, and a fully switchable defender 3-5? Yeah that's a perfect fit. Obviously the odds of everything playing out like that are fairly low, but if you think there's even a 5% chance of it then you try for that over someone with a 0.05% chance of ever becoming that impactful (Hachimura, I'm using him again cause he went in the same range).

[MichaelMcNamara]

Sekou was the guy I wanted there. And I think he has similar odds to reaching an unlikely ceiling. But if he does or comes close - HE is what I want to see next to Zion and Ingram. A multipositional athlete that would allow them to finish "small" while still being able to defend almost any type of opposing lineup. I just think that is the way the NBA is clearly heading and the only way you can have traditional 5's in your closing lineup is if they are a supreme outlier. I think Hayes realistic peak is a 25-30 mpg type of better shooting Capela. But that guy will not be on the floor at the end of games in the playoffs. And when it comes time to pay that guy, you will run into the same dilemma all teams do when it is time to pay a solid center who cant finish games against all teams. And thats why, more and more, you see teams filling that slot with mercenaries on short, small contracts. But if a guy like Sekou his 80-90 percent of his ceiling - that is the type of guy that is almost impossible to get via trade or FA.

[heybigmatt]

The second you take a guy and drive him off the lot, his value goes down.

The 8th pick was more valuable before the Pelicans selected anyone than Hayes is currently. They couldnt get the 8th pick for him this year - in an arguably weaker draft. And this is another reason you dont draft one position players -- because you will have less bidders if you do want to trade a one position player. Not many teams would give up a valuable asset for even a solid center, let alone one who has shown little to nothing.

I never understood that pick and I never will. But here's hoping he can be of some value for us before he inevitably moves on. History says there is almost zero chance he will be on the Pels in 5 years. Only question is whether we get something of value in return for him

I don't think we have history were a position is becoming as unvaluable as single position centers. Money will obviously dictate where he goes, but I can't believe the Pels will have much competition if they want to keep him. Not saying it was the right pick, but that history may not dictate the above quoted outcome.

[ml wave]

Hayes will be in the top 1% of athletes for his position, name another center that can dunk from the free throw line. Not to mention he shoots a great free throw, and can run, which is what this team wants. I love Hayes. But yes I understand people wanting more multi positional players around Zion

Birdman? Javale? Dwight? I don't think that's as rare as you think it is.

[HornetGuru]

Sekou was the guy I wanted there. And I think he has similar odds to reaching an unlikely ceiling. But if he does or comes close - HE is what I want to see next to Zion and Ingram. A multipositional athlete that would allow them to finish "small" while still being able to defend almost any type of opposing lineup. I just think that is the way the NBA is clearly heading and the only way you can have traditional 5's in your closing lineup is if they are a supreme outlier. I think Hayes realistic peak is a 25-30 mpg type of better shooting Capela. But that guy will not be on the floor at the end of games in the playoffs. And when it comes time to pay that guy, you will run into the same dilemma all teams do when it is time to pay a solid center who cant finish games against all teams. And thats why, more and more, you see teams filling that slot with mercenaries on short, small contracts. But if a guy like Sekou his 80-90 percent of his ceiling - that is the type of guy that is almost impossible to get via trade or FA.

Not gonna lie, I wanted Sekou badly.

[HornetGuru]

Birdman? Javale? Dwight? I don't think that's as rare as you think it is.

Like I said, name just ONE in the league that can do it now. Sorry javale and Dwight don’t have those hops anymore. You’re naming players that used to be able to which strengthens my point about how much of a rarity it is. Thank you.

Not to mention all those guys shoot a crap free throw. Hayes is an ultra athletic 5 that you don’t have to sit to close games because he can hit FTs. When he gets stronger and puts on a little weight he’ll be an absolute eraser. So imagine an extremely athletic center that can run with Zion that you can leave in to close out games to play great D and not worry about them playing hack a shaq

[Eman5805]

Andre Drummond can probably do it.

What bothers me most about Hayes is he’s a no factor on the boards. Man, put ME on an NBA court and I’d average like two boards a game.

I’d only last like five minutes because I’m as in shape as a broken piano is intune, but you gotta pursue the ball off the rim. The things I’d do if I were physically gifted like Jax....

[Pelicanidae]

Andre Drummond can probably do it.

What bothers me most about Hayes is he’s a no factor on the boards. Man, put ME on an NBA court and I’d average like two boards a game.

I’d only last like five minutes because I’m as in shape as a broken piano is intune, but you gotta pursue the ball off the rim. The things I’d do if I were physically gifted like Jax....

Andre Drummond cannot dunk from the FT line, let alone windmill from the FT line like Hayes can. Drummond is known for a lot of things: explosive burst is not one of them.

[ml wave]

Like I said, name just ONE in the league that can do it now. Sorry javale and Dwight don’t have those hops anymore. You’re naming players that used to be able to which strengthens my point about how much of a rarity it is. Thank you.

Not to mention all those guys shoot a crap free throw. Hayes is an ultra athletic 5 that you don’t have to sit to close games because he can hit FTs. When he gets stronger and puts on a little weight he’ll be an absolute eraser. So imagine an extremely athletic center that can run with Zion that you can leave in to close out games to play great D and not worry about them playing hack a shaq

Off the top of my head, I'd guess Jarrett Allen and Deandre Ayton could do it. If there's pretty much always someone who can do it (my examples) then by definition it's not that rare.

[HornetGuru]

Off the top of my head, I'd guess Jarrett Allen and Deandre Ayton could do it. If there's pretty much always someone who can do it (my examples) then by definition it's not that rare.

Don’t think Allen could do it, he’s never been known as some Uber athletic big, even when he played at Texas and was lighter. Now Ayton is definitely athletic enough, but he’s also 265, so maybe.... but I’m willing to bet no one has the type of athleticism Hayes has at the center position, dude runs like a gazelle. I’m not dying by any means he’s better than these guys because he is absolutely not, but from a pure athletic profile I think Hayes is tops in the nba.

[Eman5805]

Andre Drummond cannot dunk from the FT line, let alone windmill from the FT line like Hayes can. Drummond is known for a lot of things: explosive burst is not one of them.

I mean, this is basically a straight up jump. No gather. He just went up. So I don't know if he's not explosive. Doing a windmill from the FT was never part of my thought process. Just if he could dunk at all from there.

[Pelicanidae]

I mean, this is basically a straight up jump. No gather. He just went up. So I don't know if he's not explosive. Doing a windmill from the FT was never part of my thought process. Just if he could dunk at all from there.

That's from about half the distance and he barely makes it.

[ml wave]

Don’t think Allen could do it, he’s never been known as some Uber athletic big, even when he played at Texas and was lighter. Now Ayton is definitely athletic enough, but he’s also 265, so maybe.... but I’m willing to bet no one has the type of athleticism Hayes has at the center position, dude runs like a gazelle. I’m not dying by any means he’s better than these guys because he is absolutely not, but from a pure athletic profile I think Hayes is tops in the nba.

When you're that tall/long and can jump, I just don't think it's that hard (relatively speaking, lol). Wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the Plumlees could. Gobert is lumbering but his arms are so long that I think he'd have a shot. Deandre Jordan.

[Pelicanidae]

When you're that tall/long and can jump, I just don't think it's that hard (relatively speaking, lol). Wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the Plumlees could. Gobert is lumbering but his arms are so long that I think he'd have a shot. Deandre Jordan.

What next?

Could Boban do it? How tall do you have to be to overcome a 5.5 inch vertical?

Every 7 footer in the NBA can dunk from the FT line. It has been decided.

[As I See It]

A dunking contest?

So this is what the game has devolved into according to the posters in here?

Let's line the class up, let them all dunk from the free throw line and draft the best dunker. Maybe they could use props, too.

LMAO

[Pelicanidae]

A dunking contest?

So this is what the game has devolved into according to the posters in here?

Let's line the class up, let them all dunk from the free throw line and draft the best dunker. Maybe they could use props, too.

LMAO

I don't think that's what anyone was getting at, but y'know, read from it what you want.